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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Sarg
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Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic
      #314655 - 29/03/18 02:43 PM

Reading about & seeing Cordite's beautiful 12bore Double rifle, made me remember my old Blanch 12bore Double Rifle relic I found in the corner of a gunsmiths back room, I saw it as I walked pass & said to myself "that has thick barrels for a shotgun", so I picked it up & saw it had rifled barrels with a LOT of parts missing so I didnt pay a lot for it !

Only have the stock with me right now, no hammers, triggers or trigger guard were with this old girl !

Well made back in the day I think, it has a small tack in the top of the stock that the heel/butt plate slides into the keep the long top tang down & this weird thing in the butt, any one know what this is for ?

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bouldersmith
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #314678 - 30/03/18 01:05 AM

Blanch was a GREAT maker. Is that one still a finter?

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New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: bouldersmith]
      #314693 - 30/03/18 04:54 AM

The wood almost looks like Curly Ash, from the growth ring structure. That also might be due to the advanced "state" of it's condition.
Good quality parts, though.
Wonder if that rod in the butt travels up through the wrist?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #314701 - 30/03/18 08:16 AM

I found some photos on my phone of the rest of it, barrels dont look so heavy in the pics .

So that light wire could be some kind of reinforcing rod, seems a bit light, the wood looks like Oak or some thing (Ash maybe I don't know that timber) that has been burnt/scorched ?

It is percussion now, I thought he might have been a Flinter in his Youth ?

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #314732 - 30/03/18 05:25 PM

By the looks of those fences, was always percussion.

Red oak was also another guess on the wood, but ash more likely and obviously a replacement this side of the pond as neither species would (ha!) have been used in England.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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cordite
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #314770 - 31/03/18 01:26 AM

Wouldn't you like to know where it has been and how it got to its current condition. Bet there are some stories there.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: cordite]
      #314775 - 31/03/18 04:53 AM

Yes - used hard it was. The rifling style looks similar to my bro's Joseph Lang 16 bore single.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Heelerau
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #314779 - 31/03/18 08:07 AM

wonder if the rod screws into the back of the false breech. Looks like you have some work in front of you to bring her back up to proper shooting order !!

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Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

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Sarg
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Heelerau]
      #314780 - 31/03/18 08:22 AM

Oh yes, this rifle has done a lot, I know it spent most of its life in Africa as that is where I found it !

Im not to sure it will be fired again but that would be cool, I have a single 12bore to that might get shot if I get that home .

I am very curious to know what that rods purpose is ?

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Heelerau
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #314801 - 31/03/18 09:51 PM

The rod may be to reinforce the rifles wrist, that is why I asked if it screwed into the back of the false ( standing breech)

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Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

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Sarg
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Heelerau]
      #314808 - 01/04/18 04:53 AM

If that is the engraved part at the back, that the barrels would fit into, no I don't see it screwing into it ?

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Heelerau
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #314813 - 01/04/18 08:24 AM

Yes that is the bit I am talking about .

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Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Heelerau]
      #314843 - 02/04/18 02:53 AM

The steel rod through the butt quite unlikely screws into the hooked tang, referred to above as "the engraved part at the back".

There is a hole at the back of tang that takes the hook of the breech, thus there is no where for the 'rod' to screw into. It is most unlikely that the rod actually screws into the back of the breech's hook.

What is likely, is that the rod merely reinforces the wrist of the rifle.

Hooked breeches are VERY common on English guns and less so on American guns of the same period, except for rifles such as the Hawken rifles of St. Louis as well as other 'plains-type' rifles of the period. The British design influence was strong in these guns - apart from the hooked breeches on many.

"Firearms of the American West 1803-1865" has a nice picture of an 11 bore single shot rifle made in San, Francisco you would swear came out of London about mid 1850's, complete with Alex-Henry-looking lock complete with drip bar, and of course, a hooked breech as on the double rifle of this thread.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #314857 - 02/04/18 08:54 AM

Hooked breeches were always on better quality rifles, much easier to strip for cleaning and putting into your fitted case! - just push out the fore end peg and off come the barrels, replacement equally simple

The hook holds the barrels to the standing breech most securely

TH44

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Heelerau
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: TH44]
      #314890 - 02/04/18 07:03 PM

It also makes cleaning the barrel a real pleasure. My bore rifle has a hooked breech and as its been cleaned properly the corrosive caps have done little to no damage at both inside and outside the breech.

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Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Heelerau]
      #314918 - 03/04/18 01:15 PM

Same with Taylor's 16 bore Joseph Lang.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Longknife
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #316091 - 05/05/18 12:00 AM










I'm not convinced that this rifle was made as a percussion gun. If you look at the top photo above the lock you can see where the stock was relieved for the flint hammer "stop". To those of you that are not familiar with flintlocks, on a percussion gun, the hammer fall is halted by the nipple, on a flint gun, the hammer is slightly off set with a step in the back of it and that step comes to rest on the top of the lock plate. It is necessary to then relieve the wood a bit to clear the hammer "step". Also in that same photo do I see on the front upper part of the lock plate a plugged hole where the frizzen may have been attached? I would liker to see the inside of the plate to confirm......Also, if you look at the second photo you can see where the wood under the lock plate in the bottom of the barrel channel has been cut out and "squared", was this for the pan "bolster to clear?,,,,Just wondering,,,,,,????...Ed

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Longknife

Edited by Longknife (05/05/18 12:08 AM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Longknife]
      #316092 - 05/05/18 01:20 AM

I understand what you are talking about Ed - new locks and breeches to fit the original tang would not be a difficult change, however.
I see the plugged screw hole you are talking about, but think these are cap lock plates from the get-go. I am not familiar with such rear screw hole, behind the pan location. I think rather, this are lock plates from another gun, made to fit this one, by filling the cross bolt and re-drilling and tapping a hole further back, above the bolster boss.
That hole up front does look like a feather spring hole, however, might simply be the hole for the main spring pin.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Longknife
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #316163 - 07/05/18 12:09 AM

I can not comment about what modifications might have been done to these locks over the past 200 years without a closer examination. BUT,,,, I can say,, that with the upper lock panels cut out for clearance of a flint hammer that this gun, at one time, was a flintlock,, I have no doubt about that!!!...Ed

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Longknife

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Heelerau
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Longknife]
      #325050 - 23/02/19 08:12 AM

There are some outfits in England that supply castings so you may be able to get this rifle sorted, Peter Dyson and Son is one firm, I reckon this rifle is well worth setting back up.

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Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Heelerau]
      #325056 - 23/02/19 09:14 AM

Too - the rifling appears to have been bored out.
Is there a rear sight, or perhaps plugged dovetail slot for one?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #325143 - 25/02/19 10:55 AM

The Old fella has rear sights & the bore is better than I thought, it only looks like that in the photo as that is far as my finger went down the bore when I stuck it in.

The rifling looks to be very slow twist & might even be shoot-able ?

One of the locks is stuck & the screw for the lock has been butchered, that is how it lost all its bits I bet, went some where to get fixed, half pulled apart and .....

It actually feels good in the hand .

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: Sarg]
      #325160 - 25/02/19 06:13 PM

Here are breech and muzzle of my bro's 16 bore Joseph Lang. Made in 1853 It shoots as beautifully as it looks.

Breech:

Muzzle:


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #325161 - 25/02/19 06:14 PM

Sarg - a restoration is in order. You are in luck. Gordon is 'reasonably' close by to help.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Re: Blanch 12bore Double Rifle Relic [Re: DarylS]
      #325166 - 25/02/19 07:29 PM

Daryl, that is a beautiful rifle, how is it that it remains in such condition after these years, amazing ?

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