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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 3744
Loc: Nevada
Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube
      #311893 - 08/02/18 03:04 AM

It's been a few years since I stirred this pot.

What are y'all doing for patch and bullet lube these days?

I'm up in the Northern Nevada high desert.
No humidity here.
Soft fouling is a tough quarry out this way.
Castor and Murphy's at 50:50 seems to be looking close for now on roundball patches.

How do you keep the fouling soft?



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Daryl_SModerator
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: tinker]
      #311904 - 08/02/18 05:05 AM

I use Track's Mink Oil or Neetsfoot Oil for patch lube for hunting, from .32 to .69 cals.
Melt the Mink Oil, doesn't take much heat, soak it up into precut patches, then squeeze out the excess back into the tin.

For Neetsfoot oil, simply soak the pre-cut patches in the oil, squeeze out the excess.

I put pre-lubed patches in a tin, like Sucrets tin, or a plastic Speer box.

In the larger calibres, say .58 on up, paper ctgs. work well for hunting. The ball and paper thickness must give a tight fit into the bore. The wadded up paper beneath the ctg. helps seal the pressure and flame behind. No fires (with my combo) and accurate shooting, whether WW balls or pure lead.
With my .69, I can fire 10 accurate paper ctg.s (match patched ball accuracy) before the fouling gets bad. That was with 165gr. 2f charges. I then load up 82gr. (3drams) with a sopping wet spit patched round ball and fire that. That cleans the bore, ready to fire another 10 ctgs.

A loading block can be used for lubed, patched balls for hunting. The one I have holds 3 shots, thus 4 with the bore already loaded. I have left a Neetsfoot Oiled patched ball loaded for 5 months, then when firing it off, it hit centre at 100 yards, just the way is was supposed to. This was a test I did back in about 1989/1990. I loaded the rifle Sept 15th or so, then didn't get to shoot a moose with it that fall and fired it off around the end of February. We went out to the range just to try it out. After that shot, I tried 10 paper ctgs. - perfect shooting results. Good stuff.

Now, for big game hunting I prefer to load the rifle with an oiled patched round ball, then stick 1/2 dozen paper ctgs. in my pocket with a round capper 'disk' around my neck and off I go. I may or may not put a starter in my parka pocket.

For bunnies with my little Mtn. Rifle flinter, I use a possible's bag and tin of oil lubed patches. It likes Track's Mink Oil and the second and 50th shot goes down easier than the first one. No wiping needed.
.350" round ball and .022" denim patch. Loads easy and actually no starter is needed but I use one. A choked up rod, 1/2" showing below your hand can even start this combination into the bore as the tiny ball is easily formed into the bore. there is not a lot of lead to move. The larger the bore is, the harder this becomes without a starter. It's very accurate, very clean and fast shooting.

For that sort of shooting I wear a possibles bag, main powder horn and carry a priming horn, patch knife, loading block or loose balls in the pouch, lubed patches. In the left side pouch I have a bit of excess patch and a cleaning material strips, tools (screw-driver knapping hammer)jag, ball screw, spare flints and a sandwich & of course the camera.
So - horn, priming horn and possibles on right side, bag with accessories and lunch, left side.

Edited - should have noted - if you use a loading block made of wood, it should be finished inside with a water proof finish, just about like a rifle's stock. If not, the block's wood will absorb the oil from the patch.

Cutting boards, HDPE or UHMW are excellent for making hunting loading blocks. You do need one thick enough for your ball & patch - ie: 1/2" to 5/8" or just over for 50's to 62's, 3/4" for your 12, etc. Bore the holes so the patched ball is quite a snug fit, then use a small square file to file some 'grooves (4)' around the interior holes, to reduce the friction and contact surfaces. I found this to work very well with my own loading blocks. In the small calibres, like .32 and .36/.40, a 1/2" thick old (or new) cutting board works very well, for 10 to 20 shots if you are in a target rich environment, like shooting gophers.

Do NOT use a water based lube or a water mixing lube for hunting. I put Ballistol in this same category as it will/can absorb moisture - thus it is not going into my rifle bores.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 29
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312287 - 13/02/18 04:29 AM

I use pure hog lard for patch lube. I melt it, soak the patches in it, and press the excess out. I can fire dozens of shots and the last will go down as easy as the first. With Goex at least. I have an awful time keeping fouling from schuetzen powder soft no matter what I do.

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Heelerau
.275 member


Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 54
Loc: Australia
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Lane]
      #312471 - 16/02/18 10:55 AM

I use mink oil for hunting. I sometimes use spit patch when at the rifle range. I am messing around with neatsfootoil for my bore rifle.

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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fsrmg1
.300 member


Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 157
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Heelerau]
      #313335 - 01/03/18 10:14 AM

Crisco! :-)

I put the patches in an old cap tin and fill it up with melted Crisco. Excellent results and I can carry the tin in my pocked without a mess.

Edited by fsrmg1 (01/03/18 10:18 AM)


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Longknife
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Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Illinois
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: fsrmg1]
      #313580 - 07/03/18 01:49 AM

I just shot a few rounds last Sunday and was having excellent results with Olive oil.....Ed

--------------------
Longknife


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Longknife]
      #313588 - 07/03/18 04:39 AM

I haven't tried straight olive oil as a lube except back in the 80's for moose. It was the same as most everything else - at -40, it was solid/hard.

That is when I experimented with paper ctgs. in my 14 bore rifle. They (tight fit) worked perfectly and shot exactly the same as tightly cloth patched round balls.

One of the lads on a different, ml forum, tested the paper ctgs. as described and found they worked down in bore size, to 28 bore (.54). Smaller than .54, as in .45 and .50, the pressures were too high and destroyed the paper patching.

I would suggest to use them in .58's and larger, if not wanting to experiment with different lubes with cloth patches.

I was able to fire 10 shots with paper ctgs. in my .69 (14 bore) without loss in accuracy with the paper ctgs. before needing to fire a wet cloth patched ball for 'cleaning' purposes.

The paper ctgs. which were very tight in the bore, did not fragment or burn/catch fire - never. If they do, they are not tight enough.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 310
Loc: NW Montana
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313597 - 07/03/18 08:46 AM

I also use mink oil as a patch lube. I have started playing with neetsfoot oil and hoppes but haven't used them enough to have an opinion.

I also like paper cartridges. I dip the ball end of the paper cartridge in melted spg lube. Generally beneficial to get a good lube into the load whenever you can.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Posts: 18053
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: cordite]
      #313604 - 07/03/18 11:15 AM

I have and use mink oil as well as Neetsfoot Oil for patches, especially for hunting - have to for hunting. No water based or water soluble lubes/oils for hunting - rot your barrel with the introduction of moisture, from the air or otherwise.

In my .32 I tried mink oil during a winter shoot. The second through 50th shots loaded easier than the first. Dan Ph.(I think) thought it might be due to the residual WD40 dried in the barrel, not liking the mink oil. I suppose that is a definite possibility. After that first shot, the gun got easier to load & easy the rest of the day, no wiping. I was using a .320" ball and .022" patch. The bore was .320" & had 'backwards' rifling, wide land, narrow grooves. Those balls are so small, they are easily drawn into the bore, becoming very short, but still sightly elongated bullets.

I haven't tried mink oil in the new .36 Rice barrel on that rifle now, but expect even easier loading (if that is possible) due to being a VERY smooth barrel.

Sure loads easily with the WWWF+ a bit of Neestfoot Oil.

We use this for target shooting all year. The reason for the Winter Windshield Wwasher Fluid is to prevent freezing in the winter time. The reason for the oil added to it (about 2oz. per quart) is it adds a bit of slipt-tivity(as Taylor calls it) and slows the evapouration in the summer when shooting the trails here and at Rendezvous B.C. near Kamloops. It can get up around 100F some years.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2792
Loc: Colorado
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313608 - 07/03/18 12:59 PM

I have heard of “seasoning” a barrel, which I take to mean that a barrel gets shooting well after a number of shots fired.
Gets me thinking though... Is there anything one can do to a muzzle loader barrel which would be similar to seasoning a cast iron pan?
Maybe oiling and heating, rubbing and repeating? Of course being done off the rifle or even with the breech plug removed?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Posts: 18053
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Huvius]
      #313650 - 08/03/18 05:55 AM

Season your fying pan. There is no truth in doing this to a rifle barrel. When cleaning, you must get back to steel, then protect that steel with oil, grease or other preservative substance - or you will cause pits/rust/iron cancer.

There was some writing by those who get paid by the word, about this seasoning you barrel. Perhaps it came about when using loose ball/patch combinations with some of the crap lubes sold to unsuspecting individuals - like Bore Butter (most famous one - Lube 1000 is another - which seems to be little more than lip balm with some Wintergreen oil to make it smell nice.

In the loose ball/patch combinations, this crap would actually build up in the grooves over a number of shots and indeed, would wreck any accuracy that was there prior. Then trying to remove it by pushing patches up and down, merely smoothed it out, so some live wire or other garbage producer, figured it was seasoning, or some such foolishness like that and wrote it up, only to be repeated by others who are still on a long learning streak.

One guy on another BP form tested it due to some possibly negative verbiage I might have used, then had to use carb cleaner to actually cut it and remove it from his bore, along with a bronze brush. Of course, there is/was BP fouling in the thick brown tar-like buildup that water, even hot water would not touch.

Please do not do it nor attempt to do it.

Anti-seize grease can be put on breech threads, or normal oil is fine.

ML's need to be cleaned, as in ALL fouling removed. BP is dissolved by cold or cool water. No solvents are needed - water is BP solvent. Boiling hot water causes FLASH rusting to many barrel steels used in muzzleloading rifles and shotguns. Flash rusting is accumulative & results in pitting one end to the other.

Holland and Holland says to use Cool or Cold tap water only.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Illinois
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313665 - 08/03/18 02:23 PM

Daryls, Quote..."I haven't tried straight olive oil as a lube except back in the 80's for moose. It was the same as most everything else - at -40, it was solid/hard."

Well YOU DA MAN!!!!!! as I sure as hell won't be caught hunting at -40,,,,But I will be use'n olive oil when shooting from now on!!!

--------------------
Longknife


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1974
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Longknife]
      #313682 - 08/03/18 09:39 PM

I use Udderly Smooth hand cream. For dry patched balls I push the ball in flush with muzzle, filled the recess with Udderly Smooth from the Tube. Seat the ball.

I don't use many new guns now just old muskets from the Nepalese Cache. 170 year old English made muskets. Stil as stong and robust as the day they were made. Bores are not bad, but not pristine either. They smooth up with a few shots, but still have may a spot or two that will tear up a patch. Remember these things sat in unattended storage for over 140 years. with these guns I use a shotgun wad over 120 grain of Fg powder. Push a ball flush in the muzzle and fill the recess with Udderly Smooth. Seat a wad over ball and seat all on powder.

Used this in warm Summer Alberta and cold winter Oklahoma. Works just fine. Keeps fouling and your hands soft.

I have also taken to dipping a loaded black cartridge nose first into a tub of Udderly Smooth and shooting in my Martini's. Works great especially for the shooting the 13 round Victorian Rifleman Provincial Match. Bore wipes clean of fouling with dry patches. Still needs regular cleaning.

I buy in drug stores and Walmart in the tubes-look in hand creams section. Tubs I buy online.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (08/03/18 09:42 PM)


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: DoubleD]
      #313702 - 09/03/18 08:08 AM

Couple of degenerate friends of mine stopped at a coffee-shop-lunch-bar-convenience store in the Pine Pass in BC to grab some chocolate bars for the drive back home to PG. They'd been on an unsuccessful 2-week Elk hunt up around Chetwynd, BC.

There was a rather buxom young woman behind the counter.

The guys were complaining about the dry-checks on their fingers and the young woman said "I use bag balm". They instantly stared straight at her chest - and she huffed "ON MY HANDS".

Thought that was comical, a bit, anyway.

I've not tried bag-balm or Udderly Smooth as a patch lube, but might.
I still have a new tin of Trackofthewolf.com Mink Oil and a quart of Neetsfoot oil to use up first.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1974
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313709 - 09/03/18 09:25 AM

Bag balm doesn't work.

Udderly Smooth does.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: DoubleD]
      #313712 - 09/03/18 10:02 AM

OK - wonder what is in it Udderly Smooth that isn't in Bag Balm, or visa-vis.

This was in the muskets, was it, DD? does UDD-SMOOTH get hard in cold weather?

One of the guys on another forum noted he was using Coconut oil. I have not tried that one either.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313725 - 09/03/18 12:36 PM

I have a tube of US that I could put outside for the night but we are only supposed to get down to 40 deg. F tonight so not much of a test.
It looks and feels like it is emulsified with something.
Makes me think that when we make our own homebrew lube, maybe we could simply try whipping whatever formula we are sold on and simply add air and lightness to it.
That would make our lubes more like a cream rather than a salve or hard lube.
Maybe a similar composition but applied differently as either a groove lube or lube cookie or in a lighter form as a patch lube or bullet dip lube (meaning a lube applied to the loaded bullet).

What would be a good emulsifier to whip a standard lube into a cream?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1974
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313746 - 09/03/18 10:21 PM

Quote:

OK -

This was in the muskets, was it, DD? does UDD-SMOOTH get hard in cold weather?






Cold weather? Yuck!! I snow bird these days and don't even go outside when it's 30 something. But I did shoot a couple of times in Montana in the 20's and it was just fine. If it stiffened up I might have remembered that.

Yes muskets. Pattern F EIC and Fusil.

I think bag balm is petroleum based like a Vaseline. Udderly Smooth appears to perhaps have a lanolin base. Using terms "I think" and "perhaps" means I don't know.

Here is a big selling point for me for Udderly Smooth. I can find it locally in stores (Edmond, OK or Cut Bank,MT), commercial black powder lubes not so easy.

As word of confession, I didn't discover this, rather it was referred by a friend in Central Alberta who uses it exclusively. He uses it in the winter for hunting and in summer to out shoot us all at the Victorian Rifleman Gathering on his farm.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 3744
Loc: Nevada
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Huvius]
      #313747 - 09/03/18 10:30 PM

Quote:

I have a tube of US that I could put outside for the night but we are only supposed to get down to 40 deg. F tonight so not much of a test




If you have a freezer at home you could put it there.
The household freezer likely gets down to zero degrees Fahrenheit.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: tinker]
      #313767 - 10/03/18 05:12 AM

DD - that fellow's name wouldn't be Richard, would it?

Yes a freezer test would work.

Don't forget it in there, the wife gets a bit fussy when I forget I'm testing lubes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1974
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313771 - 10/03/18 05:28 AM

Pukka Boondock Richard

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: DoubleD]
      #313772 - 10/03/18 06:42 AM

Yes - on alr now.
Hell of a gun builder, that man is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1974
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313789 - 10/03/18 02:06 PM

Yep, that is for sure. Words like incredible seem in adequate describing his work.

Have you seen his matchlock? Museum quality, an art museum that is.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: DoubleD]
      #313830 - 11/03/18 04:59 AM

Yes - he is talented.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 54
Loc: Australia
Re: Black Powder Patch and Bullet Lube [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314314 - 22/03/18 08:43 AM

Here in Western Australia, our winters being ver mild by Canadian standards, quite hot I suspect, according to my Canadian Brother in Law. I have been using Dutch Shoultz dry patch in my bore rifle, 6 to 1 ballistol to water. I load a card over powder, then a thick hard greased felt wad ( soaked in lard only ) then the patched ball. This seems to work well enough to clean the fouling and means I can load a good number of shots without wrecking my wooden ram rod and hands. Not having the sort of cold you Northern Hemisphere blokes have to cope with, we have more of a problem with fouling going dry. I have found spit patch in my small bore long rifles works fine to. I am thinking it seems to be a ver individual thing re lubes and the rifles dictate what they like best. I shoot a tight combination in my .50 Missouri plains rifle, and less tight combinations in my small bore rifles so I do not need a short starter, which is great when out hammering the bugs bunnys ! I have seen Pukkas' match lock on the other forum, and it is most impressive. I set up for a mate one of the Nepalese Brown Besses, and it is not a bad old girl to shoot ! I would not mind getting on of those F Models, as I had something similar when I was a kid, had a lot of fun with it.

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !

Edited by Heelerau (22/03/18 08:47 AM)


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