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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Winter in Montana..plenty of snow..
      #313545 - 06/03/18 08:24 AM

Plenty of snow this year...in the town I live we are near all time records for snowfall..
20180305_094951 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

20180305_094240 by A Hoffart, on Flickr


20180305_094250 by A Hoffart, on Flickr


Bull Elk feeding in the early morning..20180305_135533 by A Hoffart, on Flickr


Group of cows bedded outside the park..since the wolves were introduced, the cows and calves moved to the flatlands to defend against them a bit easier..
20180305_135358 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (06/03/18 08:28 AM)


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Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 932
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313552 - 06/03/18 09:42 AM

Awesome photos. Interesting that the Elk have changes their behavior so noticeably since the wolves were introduced. How much has it affected elk numbers?

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 859
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Claydog]
      #313560 - 06/03/18 12:05 PM

Those pic's are about as close to all that snow as I want to be.

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Iowa_303
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 843
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #313562 - 06/03/18 12:47 PM

Great pics Ripp.
We're getting our standard March weather here in eastern Iowa, rain, sleet and snow at the same time.
Not very photogenic, just a bunch of yuck.

--------------------
Matt
"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

"Politicians must be allowed to panic. They need activity. It is their substitute for achievement."


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Iowa_303]
      #313563 - 06/03/18 01:28 PM

About 15 years ago, there were approximately 24,000 elk.

Today, there are less than 3,000, seems to me I saw printed by Montana or Wyoming govt.

The 40 or might have been 50 original wolves, have multiplied to well over 3,000, now outnumbering the elk, however, there are only one or 2 herds summer in the park. The rest of them now live in the Northern States, from Michigan to Washington, indeed, there were 4 spotted in Northern California.
The unglulate popluations in all of those states (minor in Mich. and Cal. right now) are in jeopardy, which might have been one of the outlying 'reasons' for the wolf introduction to Yellowstone.

You cannot re-introduce a species that was never there at any time prior to today.

There was an indigenous population of 'brush' wolves before the introduction of BC "Grey" wolves to the Park. BC wolves will not allow competition.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
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Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313566 - 06/03/18 04:18 PM

Thanks Daryl. I find the whole wolf introduction very interesting.

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 2923
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Claydog]
      #313568 - 06/03/18 05:58 PM

Great pic Ripp. More snow than I have seen in one spot.

As I understand it, the wolf introduction has achieved it goal and then some because they introduced the BC wolf. This is a bigger, stronger and more vicious than the bush wolf that was there originally. Is this correct?


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Rule303]
      #313577 - 07/03/18 01:05 AM

Quote:

Great pic Ripp. More snow than I have seen in one spot.

As I understand it, the wolf introduction has achieved it goal and then some because they introduced the BC wolf. This is a bigger, stronger and more vicious than the bush wolf that was there originally. Is this correct?






Yes, the wolves reintroduced were from Canada..and way bigger than the ones that were originally here in Montana, Wyoming and the rest of the United States..



Daryl is correct, the northern herd here in Montana was estimated around 23-24,000 animals before the introduction..last I heard, the same herd is not between 3 and 4,000 animals..not to mention how bad the moose population have been damaged..almost to the point of not seeing them any longer in a lot of areas...

This was done by design..a document surfaced about a year after the introduction..the wolves were meant to reduce the elk herds to eliminate the late hunting seasons around Gardner where the N herd resides...apparently the greenies feel its better for a elk to get hamstrung had get disemboweled while standing there vs a bullet to kill it quickly..

It was proven there were still some of the native wolves around as Daryl suggested, however they were all killed by the new wolves reintroduced..also there was a herd of 2-300 native elk the the bloodlines back to the Lewis and Clark days..they stayed in a specific area in the park ..warm springs, food and water were available through the winter..they have all now been killed as well..a little tidbit that never made the news..weird...



--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (07/03/18 01:25 AM)


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 2923
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313602 - 07/03/18 09:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Great pic Ripp. More snow than I have seen in one spot.

As I understand it, the wolf introduction has achieved it goal and then some because they introduced the BC wolf. This is a bigger, stronger and more vicious than the bush wolf that was there originally. Is this correct?






Yes, the wolves reintroduced were from Canada..and way bigger than the ones that were originally here in Montana, Wyoming and the rest of the United States..



Daryl is correct, the northern herd here in Montana was estimated around 23-24,000 animals before the introduction..last I heard, the same herd is not between 3 and 4,000 animals..not to mention how bad the moose population have been damaged..almost to the point of not seeing them any longer in a lot of areas...

This was done by design..a document surfaced about a year after the introduction..the wolves were meant to reduce the elk herds to eliminate the late hunting seasons around Gardner where the N herd resides...apparently the greenies feel its better for a elk to get hamstrung had get disemboweled while standing there vs a bullet to kill it quickly..

It was proven there were still some of the native wolves around as Daryl suggested, however they were all killed by the new wolves reintroduced..also there was a herd of 2-300 native elk the the bloodlines back to the Lewis and Clark days..they stayed in a specific area in the park ..warm springs, food and water were available through the winter..they have all now been killed as well..a little tidbit that never made the news..weird...






Strange about that. Most greeny ideas are fooked from the get go because of their arogance, which leeds to lack of creditable research. They do more damage to the environment than most other typed put together.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 27704
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Rule303]
      #313636 - 07/03/18 10:37 PM

Chilly weather.

Very sad about the effect of the wolf introductions.

If there was a determined effort to cull their numbers severely, could it now be done? And effectively?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: NitroX]
      #313641 - 08/03/18 12:46 AM

Quote:

Chilly weather.

Very sad about the effect of the wolf introductions.

If there was a determined effort to cull their numbers severely, could it now be done? And effectively?




They have opened a season for them now...Montana,Wyoming and Idaho have a season, and has been for several years...but keep the numbers to be taken fairly low..

Think in the farming/ranching area there is some SSS activity (shoot,shovel,shut up)...they are a horrible creature when left unchecked,, IMHO...there was a lone male that killed or maimed over 60 sheep in one night..then 3 days later did the same thing to another 40 sheep about 20 miles away...he was taken out by Fish and Game using a helicopter..

It would take a severe effort of trapping and hunting to get them to where they need to be..the initial premise was they would reduce the bison numbers..well, that never happened as deer,moose and elk are easier prey..now however they are running out of deer,moose and elk so are finally getting to the bison..two packs moved joined up over the winter in Yellowstone..22 now in one pack..they are running the bison through downfall then killing them after the bison break a leg or some other injury... wolves are incredibly intelligent..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17865
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313648 - 08/03/18 05:32 AM

Trapping and hunting will not work where there is much bush or forested areas. If they feel pressured by hunter activity, or when humans are in the area 'shooting', they switch to hunting at night pretty much only, laying up in cover all day.

Helicopters & fixed wing aircraft are learned and the wolves easily hide in bush and stop crossing large fields or frozen lakes during the day. At night, helicopter gun ships with night vision would work - for a while - kind of like hog shooting from copters in Texas.

The only effective way to control them (reduce their numbers) is with poison - 10/80 works best, if put into balls of meat, frozen then dropped from planes in fields and on frozen lakes. This is about the best, most effective method so far.

No other predators (except coyotes) have the balls to cross wide open expanses, so meat-balling on lakes or large fields is most productive. Where there are wolves, the coyotes have left or were killed.

Wolves learn strychnine (smell) and avoid if after a while. They also stop eating 'found' meat as in quarter or other poisoned animals put out by people as bait.

They will actually get to the point where they avoid areas where humans are or have been.

In the 1950's a wholesale poisoning of wolves happened here in BC. "They" were not able to kill them off, but managed to 'subdue' the population for 20 odd years - now they are back and through the wisdom and driven aspirations of the Clinton Presidency, the States is not encumbered with them.

One old trapper near Smithers told me of this poisoning program & how the wolves learned to avoid man completely. He said the wolves stopped stealing from his traps because he poisoned some of his 'catch' leaving them for the wolves.

They actually left his trap-line alone after he'd poisoned a few & later, he saw tracks of 3 or 4, come up to his dog sled trail, jumping over it instead of walking across it. They left his area and he said he heard that bunch had moved off to well out behind Hungry Hill, about 30 miles East.


"The States" only had 50 to start - now I've read over 3,000, spread from Michigan to California - does THAT sound like only the alpha male and female mate?

That's just another left wing lie, like killing off only the sick or injured.

Guess how many moose, elk, deer and Herefords 3,000 wolves eat every week?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1956
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313683 - 08/03/18 10:33 PM

Ripp,

You should go to MT Dot Page and pull down some of the Snow plowing pictures and post them here..

I would do it do but have limited Internet access right now and need to go get ready for snorkeling of Routan Island.

Seeing these pictures confirms that I have made the right decision to be a snow bird.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1956
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #313685 - 08/03/18 10:52 PM

I was able to grab a couple from Facebook.





Those are state roads being plowed.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313689 - 09/03/18 03:59 AM

Quote:

Trapping and hunting will not work where there is much bush or forested areas. If they feel pressured by hunter activity, or when humans are in the area 'shooting', they switch to hunting at night pretty much only, laying up in cover all day.

Helicopters & fixed wing aircraft are learned and the wolves easily hide in bush and stop crossing large fields or frozen lakes during the day. At night, helicopter gun ships with night vision would work - for a while - kind of like hog shooting from copters in Texas.

The only effective way to control them (reduce their numbers) is with poison - 10/80 works best, if put into balls of meat, frozen then dropped from planes in fields and on frozen lakes. This is about the best, most effective method so far.

No other predators (except coyotes) have the balls to cross wide open expanses, so meat-balling on lakes or large fields is most productive. Where there are wolves, the coyotes have left or were killed.

Wolves learn strychnine (smell) and avoid if after a while. They also stop eating 'found' meat as in quarter or other poisoned animals put out by people as bait.

They will actually get to the point where they avoid areas where humans are or have been.

In the 1950's a wholesale poisoning of wolves happened here in BC. "They" were not able to kill them off, but managed to 'subdue' the population for 20 odd years - now they are back and through the wisdom and driven aspirations of the Clinton Presidency, the States is not encumbered with them.

One old trapper near Smithers told me of this poisoning program & how the wolves learned to avoid man completely. He said the wolves stopped stealing from his traps because he poisoned some of his 'catch' leaving them for the wolves.

They actually left his trap-line alone after he'd poisoned a few & later, he saw tracks of 3 or 4, come up to his dog sled trail, jumping over it instead of walking across it. They left his area and he said he heard that bunch had moved off to well out behind Hungry Hill, about 30 miles East.


"The States" only had 50 to start - now I've read over 3,000, spread from Michigan to California - does THAT sound like only the alpha male and female mate?

That's just another left wing lie, like killing off only the sick or injured.

Guess how many moose, elk, deer and Herefords 3,000 wolves eat every week?





Good information on this Daryl.
thank you

Not that it makes any difference but initially they released 30..which, despite a limited hunting season has grown to over 3000...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #313690 - 09/03/18 04:14 AM

DoubleD
That is a lot of snow..thx for posting..heard this morning we are at 180%+ snowpack in our area for the year.. crazy...

Have fun on your trip..I was suppose to leave for the Dominican Republic next Thursday but had to cancel for business reasons.. bummed...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17865
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313699 - 09/03/18 07:44 AM

Welcome - thought it was 50 - some stuff is sharp and clear in memory, some not so clear.
Next year, Maui with my kids + grandchild.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313735 - 09/03/18 03:35 PM

Quote:

Welcome - thought it was 50 - some stuff is sharp and clear in memory, some not so clear.
Next year, Maui with my kids + grandchild.




Me too..headed either to Maui or Kauai ..either will work.

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 2923
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313743 - 09/03/18 05:35 PM

That sort of snow is nice to visit, then leave.

Espiritu Santo in Vanuatu is next after a trip to Namibia. Diving on Million Dollar point and a US Destroyer sunk by US mines and maybe dive on the USS Coolidge. For those that like diving Gizo in the Solomons has some great WW2 wreck diving and if you stay at Fatboys or Sambas you will be looking at Plumb pudding Island, better known as Kennedy Island as in JFK. Is third world though.


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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 1956
Loc: Retired in Montana
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Rule303]
      #313748 - 09/03/18 10:37 PM

Just as a point of clarification. Those pictures I posted above are of State Highway crew clearing State highways. The counties do have that kind of equipment to clear county roads.

Toole County for example prioritize clearing School Bus routes and mail routes first.

I have a friend that lives 4 miles down a county road from the main county road. His road is neither school route nor mail route. They went to church in the morning and when they started home they got stopped 2 miles from their house. They were able to turn around and get back to town. The next day he went back when the storm let up and drove in as far as he could. Then walked the two miles to his farm and got his tractor. Then he plowed the road back to his truck. He and the neighbor farmers used their tractors to keep the roads open. The County never got to them.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #313750 - 10/03/18 12:53 AM

Quote:

Just as a point of clarification. Those pictures I posted above are of State Highway crew clearing State highways. The counties do have that kind of equipment to clear county roads.

Toole County for example prioritize clearing School Bus routes and mail routes first.

I have a friend that lives 4 miles down a county road from the main county road. His road is neither school route nor mail route. They went to church in the morning and when they started home they got stopped 2 miles from their house. They were able to turn around and get back to town. The next day he went back when the storm let up and drove in as far as he could. Then walked the two miles to his farm and got his tractor. Then he plowed the road back to his truck. He and the neighbor farmers used their tractors to keep the roads open. The County never got to them.




When I was a kid back in N Dakota we used our tractors all the time to open roads, feed cattle, push snow, etc..my parents always spoke of the winter of 1948-49..how the National Guard was called out to open roads..snow so deep power poles were nearly covered but snow drifts in some areas..insane amount of snow..
seems hard to imagine but have seen pics..my Dad got injured..they come out and got him with a caterpillar took him to the hospital..

In the mid-70's we had a 3-4 day blizzard ..parents had a dairy farm..Dad and I would tie a rope to each other so we wouldn't get lost and make the 70 yard walk to the barn from the house..there was an article on Johnny Carson after it was all over..wind chills had hit in excess of -130F..insane again..one of the thousand reasons I no longer live there... like a fricken 3rd world country..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Winter in Montana..plenty of snow.. [Re: Ripp]
      #313751 - 10/03/18 01:04 AM

Beauty of technology--on YOUTUBE..Footage of the winter of 1948-49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-bENij3RY

Another --longer version..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6Iz4dXGdg

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (10/03/18 01:07 AM)


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