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NitroSteel
.275 member

Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Georgia, USA

Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag
#31356 - 18/05/05 01:22 AM

What is one of these rifles worth used but in new condition? This is the newer model with controlled round feed. It is not a "Safari Express". I can get a Safari Express new for $875 + tax.

The person is wanting $700 + shipping for this gun - - is it worth it? What are the shortcomings of this gun (why is the value in the blue book $200 less than the Safari Express? In my opinion it is a better looking gun...

When this gun was first presented to me, it was "sold" as a Safari Express and I was going to buy it for this price, but then realized that it was the other model.

Thank you

NitroSteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: NitroSteel]
#31378 - 18/05/05 07:42 AM

I do not recall the names of the various Winchester models. But there are a couple of notable differences.

In the 1980's, the Win. M70 in .458 had a bit of a monte carlo cheekpiece. Today they have a straight comb. The monte carlo generally makes the gun less valuable.

A bit earlier than that they were a push feed system, which also makes them less desirable.

Do you have any pics of the rifle?

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510Wells
.275 member

Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win M [Re: NitroSteel]
#31387 - 18/05/05 09:07 AM

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/category.asp?cat=001C

--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win M [Re: NitroSteel]
#31395 - 18/05/05 12:30 PM

I remember the Super Express rather well...when attending a university and working at a gun shop part time the vile owner offered a sighting in service which included boresighting plus range test. I had to shoot most of the rifles he didn't want to shoot, which was anything from a .338 on up.

If the rifle you're considering is an old Super Express with the Monte Carlo stock and push feed system, it will be cheaper because nobody wants to shoot it. The stock configuration hits harder than any other .458 on the market, which is why Winchester redesigned the stock.

The Super Express models we sold in .375 H&H and .458 Winchester usually reappeared in the shop on consignment a few weeks later.

Richard.

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luv2safari
.400 member

Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: NitroSteel]
#31400 - 18/05/05 01:04 PM

I recently turned one down in 458 with a Leupold 1.5X5 scope at $750.00. They work well, but I just don't like them. I should have bought the rifle, kept the scope, and sold the rifle.

I don't much care for the Safari Express, either. I had one in 375 and one in 416 Rem, and neither would feed from a full magazine properly. The 375 action was not machined straight; the barrel was pointed right.

I am a long time Winchester fan, but I can't warm up to the Safari Express or the older Super Express.

The 375 SS Synthetic I had recently was an excellent rifle, except for that stinking folding rear sight. It was somehow folded down every time I needed it quick.

A call to Williams Gunsight and $45.00 solved that problem.

Don't get burried in either flavor...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Will
.333 member

Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: NitroSteel]
#31516 - 19/05/05 06:16 PM

It is mostly personal preference stuff. Several years ago I had both a 375 and a 458 Super Express. I sold them for dirt, but did like the fact that the 458 only weighed about 8 1/2 lbs.

I recently bought another 458 Super Express, like new, and like it. The Monte Carlo is not that extreme to make a difference using open sights (using a ghost ring rear sight). I think the fit and finish is better than the new ones. I'm easily getting 2150 fps with 500 gr. solids.

I was trying to sell it on AR for a couple days (like I need another big bore) but decided it was too nice to sell, and I'll tag a couple jumbo this year with it.

If you decide to pass on that Super Express I would appreciate the contact information.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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Moody
.224 member

Reged: 20/05/05
Posts: 5

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: NitroSteel]
#31549 - 20/05/05 05:31 AM

I recently purchased a Winchester .458 WM Safari Express and love it. It feeds great, shoots great and is overall, a very attractive rifle for the money. I chronied two different types of ammo thru it today and got an average of 2210 fps from the Hornady 500 gr. Heavy Mag and 1980 fps from the Federal's with 500 gr. solids. I am thinking about punching it out to the Lott but the Horndady ammo is doing about all I need from a .458.

Ken Moody

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Plains99
.300 member

Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Moody]
#31555 - 20/05/05 06:08 AM

I bought a Lott but I think you are right about the new Hornady ammo. I don't believe I'll need to use the Lott and simply stay with the hot new .458 Win Mag Hornady loads. New powders may bring the .458 Win Mag back to what it was supposed to be in the first place.

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Moody
.224 member

Reged: 20/05/05
Posts: 5

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Plains99]
#31560 - 20/05/05 06:56 AM

I was interested in checking the Heavy Mag .458 from Hornady as they claim MV of 2260. I don't know the length of the barrel on the rifle they used but my Winchester spits them at at 2210. That's still over 2200 which is what I wanted. I also checked the brass for signs of stress, etc. and found everything OK. The ammo cycled well and proved accurate so I think I'll just go with the Hornady for now although I love the Sledgehammer bullet. I guess my only concern with the Hornady would be the packing of the powder which is in there for sure. When you shake this round you'll hear nothing. Packed that tight could lead to caking, etc. and cause some poor burning characteristics. I don't know as I've never used this ammo in actual field conditions.

Ken Moody

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JPK
.375 member

Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Moody]
#31574 - 20/05/05 01:57 PM

Moody,

Its interesting that you got 1980 out of the Federal ammo. I read a review that included crono data on the Federal load and the reviewer got 2126 out of a 24" barrel, or at least claimed to. Allen Day at AR also crono'd that ammo and got numbers very close to those advertised. I don't own a crono and have been trying to guestimate what I'd be getting.

What is the barrel length on your rifle?

JPK

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Plains99
.300 member

Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Moody]
#31602 - 21/05/05 12:31 AM

Yeah, that is the question. The old heavily packed .458 loads worked fine until they got some age on them and were subjected to the high heat of the tropics. I have a friend who is the PR for Hodgdon and he didn't have good stats on the Hornady Win Mag loads. He recommended Lott loads of IMR 4320 at 76.5 grams and MAX at 85 grains for 2,330 fps using the 500 grain Spire Point bullet. With IMR 4064, the starting load is 71.1 and MAX is 79 grains for 2,230 fps. These are older powders in a much larger case than the Win Mag. He felt that they would be less likely to fail in a tropical situation. Hence, the reason for the Lott in the first place. I figured I'd wait until more hunting reports came in on the Hornady Win Mag load. Until then the Win Mag is ALL I'd ever conceive of needing in North America.

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Moody
.224 member

Reged: 20/05/05
Posts: 5

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Plains99]
#31852 - 24/05/05 06:31 AM

It's a 24" barrel and those were the averages I got although my chronograph might need calibrating.

Ken Moody

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JPK
.375 member

Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: Moody]
#31858 - 24/05/05 08:28 AM

Moody,

Thanks for replying and if you recalibrate you crono and try iy again please let me know what you get.

JPK

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: Winchester Model 70 Super Express in 458 Win Mag [Re: JPK]
#31871 - 24/05/05 10:21 AM

I would spend the extra $175. for a new rifle in a newer model myself...

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