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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific

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magnum308
.275 member

Reged: 19/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia

WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT?
#31336 - 17/05/05 10:08 PM

I may have an opportunity in a few months to go with a mate on a Northern Territory hunt in an area that doesn't get hunted much. I'm informed that there are buffalo, crocks, brumby, big pigs amongst other game to be taken.

As I've never hunted in the NT before and certainly not hunted the larger game they get up there, I'm in a bit of a quandry on which rifle or rifles to take, if it comes together. I have a leaning towards only one rifle for the hunt but could take two (wouldn't want any more than that). I have available in order of preference the following:

A Ruger M77 in .375 Chatfield-Taylor (375/338WM). I haven't done a lot of shooting with this rifle (only at the range developing loads for Hornady 270 gr spire point) but I would have time to get familiar with it before I went, if it was the choice.

A custom FN M98 308 Norma Mag that shoots like a dream and with which I am very familiar. Would be a good choice (for a one rifle hunt) but for a big buff I'd feel a bit more comfortable with the 375 C-T.

A Winchester pre 64 M70 featherweight (in .308 Win and .270 Win). either of these would make a good second rifle to the .375 C-T for lesser (non dangerous) game

Any advice from anyone familiar with hunting in the NT of Australia would be appreciated.

Cheers & God bless,
Magnum308

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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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magnum308
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Loc: Brisbane, Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31339 - 17/05/05 11:26 PM

oops, got that wrong. Crocs are not on the agenda,but buffalo and pig definitely are.

Magnum308

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31380 - 18/05/05 07:51 AM

magnum308

IF you need to take 2 guns,

A Ruger M77 in .375 Chatfield-Taylor (375/338WM).
AND
A Winchester pre 64 M70 featherweight in .308 Win

Even though I think 308 Norma Mag is a superb round, reason for 308
is that if you lose or run out of 308 ammo up there, you can EASILY get more.

One danger to watch out carrying 2 different guns - make sure you know which you have in your hand
when shooting buff so you don't forget where the saety is etc etc if something happens in a hurry.
It's not written about often but should be more so.

IF you can get away with 1 rifle, take the 375/338 CT and then take more ammo
- if your not flying, this should be easy.

Good hunting

500 Nitro

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magnum308
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Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: 500Nitro]
#31386 - 18/05/05 09:06 AM

500Nitro,

Thanks for the advice. Yes I would love to take my .308 Norma but I am leaning towards the .375 C-T. I think I'll just take one rifle (simpler and I'd feel more confident if buffalo presented itself when I was after other game).

Also I notice that Hornady make a great high BC 300 gr SPBT that would be great for a longer shot on lesser game. I'd load 300gr RN for buffalo and hopefully both will shoot to the same point of impact at 100 yards (sight in). The ballistics are fairly flat (and identical) to 100 yards too, according to PointBlank (at a modest MV of 2,560 fps):

Range 300RN 300SPBT
25yds -0.57" -0.60"
50yds -0.01" -0.03"
75yds +0.21" +0.17"
100yds 0.00 0.00
150yds -1.76" -1.55"
200yds -5.48" -4.83"
250yds -11.57" -9.98"

I would have thought that a 200 yards shot would be the limit in that country and for the game I'm likely to hunt.

Any thoughts on this any NT hunters. Also any thoughts on bullets/bullet construction for the various game likely would be appreciated too.

Also looking for advice on scope and mount for the Ruger M77. I have available a Leupold Vari-XIII 1.5-5X20 and a Vari-XII 2-7X33 but I'm leaning towards the former (but the extra 2X wouldn't be too bad for a longer shot). Also I'd like to have the option of using open sights (particularly for buffalo in bush). I had years ago a Pachmayr Lo-Swing Mount on a Rem 742 .308 pig rifle and liked it. It allows you to swing the scope away (or even remove it) to use the open sights then replace the scope and maintain its zero. Had to "sell" the 742 to the govt but kept the mount. Any idea where I could get a base for the Ruger M77? They don't seem to be listed on the Lyman/Pachmayr website.

Cheers & God bless,
Magnum308

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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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NitroX
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31406 - 18/05/05 02:07 PM

Magnum

I too would take both a .308 and the .375 C-T. Though the .375 will handle everything of course.

A .308 will handle pigs, donkeys and brumbies pretty well too.

I would use a Woodleigh 300 gr Weldcore either the RN or Protected point. Plus also take some FMJs as well. Useful if you have a wounded fleeing buff. A FMJ will on broadside shots probably zip through but if shooting from the rear will have better penetration. 500nitro is an expert on Woodleighs and can tell you.

I don't like using Hornadys or similar for game like buffalo AT ALL!

I've used the 300 gr Woodleigh RNs on pigs as well and you don't have to worry about them killing them. Some of the exit holes are very impressive especially at close range and if hitting a heavy bone. My longest shot on a boar with my .375 H&H and 300 gr RN was between 250 and 300 yards at a slow trot (the pig). I was happy with it.

My preference for a .375 would be the 1.5-5x. Also for pigs. I prefer the increased field of view on DG rifles. 4x is adequate for a hunting rifle so the top end of the range at 5x is fine.

Don't know about the mounts. I use Warne QD mounts myself and I believe ProCal stocks them.

It sounds like you will have a fun hunt. If you are going after about mid-August think about a shotgun as well. It will be goose and duck season.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3491
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31414 - 18/05/05 03:36 PM

m308:
Heed NitroX's advice about Woodleighs. The .375 CT is a very under-rated cartridge, it can virtually match the old H&H cartridge's ballistics for the 270-grainer with modern powders, maybe a bit behind with the 300-grainer but not significant on game.

You will be unlikely to need a long shot in most of the Top End, however floodplain country can be very open and the game will be eagle-eyed if they've been chased a bit. I'd go with the Protected Point in that cartridge for the slight improvement in trajectory if a long-shot is needed.

It would be nice to take only one rifle, and even better if you could get the 270-gr Spire Points to the same point of aim as the 300-gr PPs. That long pointy Hornady bullet is a ripper on big pigs, I use it in a .444/.375 wildcat I built on a Lee Enfield action years ago, mainly as a loaner. That rifle has killed a few buff too, with 285-gr Grand Slams I got cheap when Davies Sports closed!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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magnum308
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Reged: 19/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31423 - 18/05/05 05:46 PM

Thanks Nitro-X and Marrakai,

I had a look at the Woodleigh website and the Weldcore look pretty impressive. Also ran the PP ballsitcis through PointBlank and it looks good (compared to the Hornady figures posted earlier).

25yds -0.60"
50yds -0.04"
75yds +0.17"
100yds 0.00
150yds -1.54"
200yds -4.79"
250yds -9.86"

Also paper energy @ 50 yds is 200 flbs better than the Hornady RN, mind you with this calibre that's only about 5% improvement.

This looks like a good bullet for this hunt. Thanks for the input.

Cheers & Gos bless,
Magnum308

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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31517 - 19/05/05 06:19 PM

Every body has pointed you in the right direction with regards to calibre and projectile.
Like Marrakai I own and use a 375CT however I only use 300gn round nose solids and soft nose..

You cant go past woodleigh bullets and the bonus is that they are made in Australia.

Dont ever travel to the Territory with out a spare rifle and maybe a spare scope.
I use a 1.5 x 4 x20 Leupold on my 375 CT .
I took my Ruger 308 synthetic and a 303 Lee Speed as spare rifles on my last trip to the NT.
I tried and found that woodleighs 220gn rn sn 308 projectiles worked brilliantly on pigs and also donkey so iff you are chasing a load for either of the above give me a call.
I use Woodleigh 215 gn projectiles in my 303 and must admit that they are very compareable with the 308 both in accuracy and knockdown power at reasonable ranges.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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magnum308
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Reged: 19/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#31579 - 20/05/05 04:13 PM

Alan,

Thanks for the advice. I plan to use the .375C-T for most (if not all) the hunting on this hunt (if it comes off). But I think it is good counsel to take a spare rifle so I'll take my fwt .308 Win (with a Leuplod Vari-XII 2-7X33). I also plan to take a spare Vari-XIII 1.5-5X20 just in case something happens to the other one (on the .375). By the way there is active discussion on an AR thread about these 1.5-5s failing on big bores, see http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/540107652 . So a spare one won't hurt. I'll also take a spare Vari-XII 2-7X33 (for the .308) too.

I was curious about your choice of bullets for the 308 for pigs. 220grs sounded a bit heavy, I was thinking along the line of 150grs or at most 180s.

I see you're a .375C-T fan too. Didn't know there were so many around. I saw the cartridge in PO Ackleys book in the late 70s and liked the concept. Tell me about your's? Load you use? How it shoots? What sight in you have for it for NT? Kills with it and how the bullets performed? Pics of previous (NT) hunts would be great too.

Cheers and God bless,
Magnum

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Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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The_Professor
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 17
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31620 - 21/05/05 03:07 AM

Hi Folks,

Good advice. I go to the Tropics every year for Pigs and Buff if possible (usually the NT but this year the cape). Always take two rifles. I try to take a shotty or drilling as well as the wing shooting off the swamps is magnificant in the right season.

I had my custom Ruger #1 re-chambered to 375 Weatherby. I load 300 grain Woodlie Protected Points. I have not chronographed the load but I would estimate about 2700 fps for a little less than 5000 lbs muzzle energy.

Consequently about the same as most of the old British NEs. The impact on my old 100pt Bull was devastating. At about 30 yds I hit him with a classic side on shoulder shot and it devastated him. The extra 250 odd fps over the 375 H&H seems to have a big impact. This rifle is not the best on pigs as the recoil is substantial. I got a major Weatherby eyebrow last year trying to shoot a mob of pigs from a tree stand on dusk!

I have another #1 with a custom Tobler barrel in 7mm Weatherby 140 grain Barns X or 160 grain Partitions really smacked the big NT boars.

In my Weatherby ultra-light in 30-06 I load 180 grain Accubonds or factory PMC Gold-line with 150 grain Barnes X. If I use a light bullet I always use Barnes X. Do not underestimate the strength and power of the big pigs, they are very tough.

Regards,
The Professor.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31714 - 22/05/05 09:22 AM

Magnum308,

As marrakai says, long shots are not that common in the NT except maybe on flood plains
and only at Pigs. Don't try shooting at Buff at 200 yards for a 1st shot !!!
Don't worry about BC's too much - you should be able to use one aiming point
for all the game up there.

As NitroX says, take some solids for fleeing, rear end buffalo. Have a solid
as the last round in the magazine at all times. A fail safe measure for DG hunting
as it will penetrate anything from any angle (including tress !!!)

220gn SN RN in 30 cals work well. They flatten pigs.

Would NOT recommend Hornady's for any of the game. Use Woodleigh's.
If you need Woodleigh loading data, PM me. Generally you can use ADI loading
data for Woodleigh's starting of course 10% lower. DO NOT load to full pressure
due to the hea you can get up in the NT - Ammo can get hot up there and increase pressure.

I have data for 309 Norma Mag as a mate of mine has one and loaded up Woodleighs
for me to get the load data.

I have tested heaps of Woodleighs on game in the NT and they work fine.
The NT pigs, buff and horses is where we test all of the Woodleigh's to work
out Impact parameters for all of the bullets.

Practice off hand shooting with your gun. CORRECT Shot placement on 1st shot with
big buffalo is important, especially with marginal calibres.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: magnum308]
#31732 - 22/05/05 04:29 PM

Magnum,common sense dictates that a couple of firearms never go astray when on a hunting trip just incase.
I always take a spare set of hunting boots as well.
My Husqvarna 375CT is a very smooth ,easy to carry and shoot rifle.
My own personal loads are as follows :-Woodleigh 300 gn rn either solid or soft,62gns 2208,fed match primers and overall length of 3.2 inches.MV = 2409 fps.
The reason I use Woodleigh 220 gn rn bullets in my 308 is knockdown power.
When hunting pigs particularly in the Territory you may from time to time come across the odd scrub cattle or buffalo.
Iff they decide to get nasty ,at least you have a projectile that will penetrate and leave a wound channel instead of expanding on or just under the skin which is the case with a lot of high velocity rounds.
My own personal load for the 308 is as follows :-Woodleigh 220gn rn projectiles,37 gns of 2208 ,fed primer,overall length of 2.68 inches..MV =2145 fps.

My own personal 303 Lee Speed loads are as follows :-Woodleigh 215 gn projectiles.39 gns of 2208,fed primer.MV2098 fps..
I usually make sure all my hunting rifles are one inch high at aprox 100 yards so that I dont have to worry about adjusting my point of aim up to around 200 yards.
Hope some of this info is of some use.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#31745 - 23/05/05 01:51 AM

At least twelve buffalo in the photo! A nice sized bull in the foreground and nice sized bull you shot as well. What size is he? (I want to learn to judge water buff horn sizes).

Is that Arnhemland or a station?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
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Loc: Western Australia

Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: NitroX]
#31764 - 23/05/05 11:30 AM

John,the bull I am sitting on was the trouble maker that was culled.
I had him officially measured , 92 0/8.
His bases were 16 2/8 and 16 6/8 which isnt very big compared to some.
He was the smallest bull for the trip.
The bull in the foreground is about 110,nice thick bases and well swept back horn.
It can be very deceiving especially when the horn is thick at the base or the bull is huge which make the horn look small.
All photo's were taken in Arnhemland ,free range no fences,native traditional owner country ..

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroX
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#31768 - 23/05/05 01:24 PM

One could easily see the live buffalo in the photo was large. 110!

Your buffalo is a nice looking bull none-the-less. I guessed it was in the mid-nineties but personally need to learn how to field guess the sizes. A requirement if one is going to hunt alone.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: NitroX]
#31779 - 23/05/05 03:36 PM

Try 2003!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
#31780 - 23/05/05 03:47 PM

I meant "mid-nineties" as in inches / score.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: WHICH RIFLE FOR A NT HUNT? [Re: NitroX]
#31787 - 23/05/05 06:43 PM

OOOOOOPS.
\Sorry John.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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