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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313247 - 27/02/18 04:16 PM

Quote:

John I don't have a customer lined up yet, so can't ask. If I knew the rifle was going to be used for deer sized game only I might go with the `150 grain bullets. But I live in Wyoming and the "common game" here is elk, so I want to zero for a load that is good form them. I do expect to sell the SMLE "Speed" to someone in Wyoming just because there are many men and a few women here that are "rifle lovers" and is seems that about everyone in Wyoming hunts. I don't have to mess around with any federal regulation either, if I sell it to a Wyomingite.
Not that I would not sell to someone somewhere else in the USA, but I won't advertise it outside Wyoming at first. If Ic an't find someone in Wyoming that wants it in the first 3 months or so, I may "put the word out" in the rest of the USA.

If anyone here on this site is interested, please contact me before I finish the zeroing, if you have other preferences. I can do it any way I am asked to, but I am taking a guess as to what would be best.

I think that because the 3 balde rear sight will have zeros at 100, 200 and 300 yards, there should not be any disadvantage for the hunter of smaller deer. You simply flip up the sight that is closest to the range and hold dead on. An "elk load" kills deer ok. So other then a heavier kick, I see no down side to using a 170 to 180 grain load.

Your thought?




Truthfully I have two SMLE .303's and have only ever used the FMJ ammo in them. Grinding off the tips when needed. Never used commercial ammo or bullets in them.

One is a full wood, No.1 Mk III, with pretty much all matching numbers sheerly by chance, and the other the same but cut back and probably the bore seriously worn. One day might get rebarrelled to .25, OR sold off if I can replace it with a Lee Speed. I think one would have to go, if I acquired a Lee Speed as the police might give troubles over yet another one.

If reloading for .303 I would almost certainly use the 174 gr Woodleigh PPSN. But would also consider a 150 gr SP of some description which would be more useful for what I would use a .303 for, ie feral goats and pigs. Any half decent SP would fine for them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (27/02/18 11:18 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313257 - 27/02/18 06:17 PM

I need a good condition Mark 1 #3 barrel. I have a complete action that needs a barrel.

My #4 is the one I rechambered to the .350 Rem Mag. necked to .303, that shoots 174gr. at 2,960fps with Re#19. They will slow down quickly due to being a semi-round nose, but it is still a good 200yard moose rifle, I guess.

1 1/2" for 3 shot groups at 100 meters - battle sights.

Got some experimenting to do this summer.

Good luck Steve. I am going to test the 174 Hornadys - maybe on a spring bear. My thread cutter is allergic to domestic meat, but he likes bear. It will not go to waste. I don't eat them any more - I quit eating black bear about 1979, but will save the inside fat for oil for my rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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338Fed
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Reged: 22/02/18
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: DarylS]
      #313261 - 27/02/18 10:59 PM

Szihn,

I've owned and hunted with numerous .303 SMLE rifles over the last 30 years, either fullwood, sporterised, scoped or open sights.

As a teenager I mainly used the Mk7 ball, with the tip clipped off, then started reloading, mainly Speer 150 gr hotcor SP. At that time I was mainly shooting pigs and wild dogs. The Speers were good on the pigs, but supply was the main issue at the time in western Qld.

Now I'm in Far North Qld, the pigs are usually a bit bigger, and brumbies (wild horses) and scrub bulls (wild cattle) are now in the mix.

When I grab a .303 for nostalgic reasons and go for a walk, I now use the 174gr Hornady RNSP interlock. Have dropped a few bulls, numerous horses and tons of pigs with the bullet. It performs well, even on the very heavy game, always mushrooms nicely and penetrates deeply.

I have used the woodleighs in several other calibres, and reckon it would go well in the 303, but am very happy with the Hornady SP at 303 velocities to get the job done on everything up to cattle size.

Good luck


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313270 - 28/02/18 02:44 AM

Quote:

Thanks Jim C. That's the kind of information I am looking for.

John I don't have a customer lined up yet, so can't ask. If I knew the rifle was going to be used for deer sized game only I might go with the `150 grain bullets. But I live in Wyoming and the "common game" here is elk, so I want to zero for a load that is good form them. I do expect to sell the SMLE "Speed" to someone in Wyoming just because there are many men and a few women here that are "rifle lovers" and is seems that about everyone in Wyoming hunts. I don't have to mess around with any federal regulation either, if I sell it to a Wyomingite.
Not that I would not sell to someone somewhere else in the USA, but I won't advertise it outside Wyoming at first. If Ic an't find someone in Wyoming that wants it in the first 3 months or so, I may "put the word out" in the rest of the USA.

If anyone here on this site is interested, please contact me before I finish the zeroing, if you have other preferences. I can do it any way I am asked to, but I am taking a guess as to what would be best.

I think that because the 3 balde rear sight will have zeros at 100, 200 and 300 yards, there should not be any disadvantage for the hunter of smaller deer. You simply flip up the sight that is closest to the range and hold dead on. An "elk load" kills deer ok. So other then a heavier kick, I see no down side to using a 170 to 180 grain load.

Your thought?




Steve.
You should throw some pics up on here of he .303.. I for one, would love to see it..

thx

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ripp]
      #313281 - 28/02/18 07:12 AM

I'll do that Ripp.
They are not done yet. I hope to have the Irish one ready to engrave in about a week and then I'll blue it. It won't be long.
I will get the Lithgow done about 2-3 weeks later. I'll post pics of it too.


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313287 - 28/02/18 08:26 AM

Quote:

I'll do that Ripp.
They are not done yet. I hope to have the Irish one ready to engrave in about a week and then I'll blue it. It won't be long.
I will get the Lithgow done about 2-3 weeks later. I'll post pics of it too.




Awesome..look forward to it..

and thank you

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ahmed577
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313565 - 06/03/18 02:00 PM

PURDEY used federal Speer hot-cor soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. BOSS used federal power shock soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. Plan to use both guns on pig deer croc etc.

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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313569 - 06/03/18 06:02 PM

Quote:

PURDEY used federal Speer hot-cor soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. BOSS used federal power shock soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. Plan to use both guns on pig deer croc etc.




Pics please and certainly pics of them with the animals you take with them.

szihn. I am with Ripp, pics when ready please.


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Ahmed577
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #313575 - 06/03/18 11:16 PM

Would love to send pictures however am unable on this site. People have tried to help me however my grasp of the system fails me each time.

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313578 - 07/03/18 01:18 AM

Ahmed, if you can e-mail them to me I can post them for you.
My e-mail address is szihn@wyoming.com

I will have the wood on both Lees done in about 3-4 days. Then I am going to do the engraving and the bluing. I'll then re-assemble the guns for pictures. I am sure I wan't get to the checkering for some time. Too may things to get done first, but I hope to get the checkering done on them this year. If someone was to want to buy the SMLE "Speed" I'd get the checkering done on it right away, but until someone wants it it's being built on 'speculation" and I need to do that kind of work as time allows.

Anyway, when I get them put together I'll take pics and post them. Should be pretty soon


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313630 - 07/03/18 10:13 PM

Quote:

Would love to send pictures however am unable on this site. People have tried to help me however my grasp of the system fails me each time.




CL,

You can email them to me as well. Though I am a little preoccupied with vintage at the moment.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313998 - 15/03/18 08:49 AM

Ok I have the Irish Lee assembled. I still need to fit the screw heads on the grip cap and butt plate and blue them both as well as the rear swivel stud. I also have not gotten the checkering started, but here how it's looking so far.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
L Side Irish close up by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Edited by szihn (15/03/18 08:51 AM)


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314000 - 15/03/18 09:14 AM

Looking good!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Docbill
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #314021 - 16/03/18 12:31 AM

Man you do good work !!! I'm envious.

--------------------
Bill Boyd


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Hoot
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Docbill]
      #314022 - 16/03/18 01:30 AM

Very nice!

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eagle27
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Hoot]
      #314029 - 16/03/18 05:31 AM

How's the old saying, "you can't turn a sows ear into a silk purse", I believe you are well on the way to doing it.
That's real nice, can't wait to see it when finished and checkered.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: eagle27]
      #314033 - 16/03/18 09:48 AM

100_1750 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Here's how it looked when I got it.


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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314036 - 16/03/18 06:56 PM

Now that is a very nice rifle. The stock has good grain flow and is, to my eye, not garish. The dings in the metal of the rifle speak of tales to be told. A job very well done.

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #314490 - 26/03/18 07:51 AM

Well I did the .308" bullet test.
When I chambered these 2 rifles I made the camber to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim. The Military chambers had the shoulders of the chambers .020" forward of the shoulder of the case and you can easily see the shoulder move forward on fired cases if you simply hold them alongside an unfired cartridge.
There is really nothing wrong with out the Brits did it but it does make case life a bit shorter if you don't neck size them after the 1st firing. Because I am supplying the dies and the load zeroed for the irons with the rifles I make, I took another approach.
I chambered the barrels so the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder with .002" clearance, and that moves the shoulder back .022". The down side is it also moves the case mouth/throat juncture back .022" so I have to trim my brass it 2.200 instead of the spec 2.222". However I found this is a cool way to dramatically increase brass life and still be able to size the case body a bit, so it enters the chamber effortlessly.

My other dilemma was the question: "What bullet should I use?"

Because these are fully custom rifles with iron sights set to 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards I need to file each sight blade to perfection, and that means I should have an accurate load capable of doing the job on any game that the rifle would be used against so the customer can duplicate that load for the life of the owner.

My 1st choice would be Woodleigh bonded bullets but they are very expensive and I do not trust the availability of them over time, because of the anti-gun politics of Australia and the looming danger of our own government shutting down importation of things "gun-related". So unless I could supply a lifetime's worth of bullets with the gun at the time of the sale (about 2000 bullets for a life time is a good guess, but there is no way I can afford to buy 2000 of them and hope someone will then buy the gun from me later.) I didn't want to zero with them and have an owner later not be able to duplicate that load.

As you all are probably aware I was asking for reports on bullet performance so I could make a decision about what bullet to load and zero with.

Problem solved!
I used .310" groove to groove barrels in this gun instead of .312. So I thought I should just try some 308" bullets and see if the metal flow from lands compressing the copper into the grooves would make a good gas seal and stay concentric. I was hoping for the best... but I knew there was no way to be sure other then to try it.

I loaded 40.3 Gr of IMR4064 with a 180 grain .308 Remington Core-Lokt in WW cases. It goes 2380 FPS. Here is how the first 3 shots printed at 100 yards.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

The group was as good as I can shoot with my old eyes, and also about 7" high.
So I lowered the rear sight (flied to the correct height) and made a windage correction. (went a bit too much) The next 3 shots are the ones in this groups making the triangle farthest to the left.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

So I went back just a little bit right, and fired the next 3, one of which hit the spot and 2 are so close I don't think I can correct for it at 100 with open sights. Those 3 are the smallest triangle you see, just slightly to the left, maybe about 1/2" to 5/8" from mean center of group to the center of the spot.

So I think I will go with .308s and zero the 200,300 and 400 yards blades with them.

I modified the dies to have a .307 expander instead of a .310" and it makes the cases hold the .308 bullets perfectly.
In the "180 grain 308" bullet world" there are LOTS of choices from very 'soft' bullets like Sierras BTs to tough deep penetrators like Nosler Partition and various bonded bullets, and I am sure all will be close to the right point of impact if the owners use 40.3GR of 4064.
I think my problem is behind me now.

Edited by szihn (26/03/18 07:53 AM)


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314499 - 26/03/18 04:44 PM

Well done Steve.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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DarylS
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #314506 - 27/03/18 02:49 AM

Nice to be able to use .308 bullets, that is for sure.

My buddy Keith uses 150gr. Hornady Interbond in his .308 barrel chambered for the .303 - mule deer, whitetail deer and an elk first fall with it. Elk was just over 400yards. Says that bullet is perfect in that ctg.
Seems to me, he was running them 2,650fps to 2,700fps using an IMR medium burning powder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: DarylS]
      #314509 - 27/03/18 04:04 AM

The bonding process of making bullets also softens the jackets some, so I had the same idea.

A softer jacket will obdurate more and seal the bore better (in theory) and yet bonded bullet hold together and penetrate well. I may need to buy some and try them next. I guess just for the fun of doing the experiment however.
When I look at the real-world, a 180 gr Core-Lokt Remington bullet is overall a good one, and holds together better than many standard bullets. It gets good reports on game as a rule, and I have use them for many years on deer and elk from 300 Savage, 30-06s, 308s and 30-40 Krag and never really had one fail me. I have only ever seen one come apart, and that one had it's core and jacket only 2" apart from each other. That was after it went through about 30" or elk. So I can't say it was all that bad. Most times you get either the picture perfect mushroom or an exit.

As far as the gas-seal goes, I wonder if it would matter. I don't have the super good vision I did for the 1st 50 years of my life, and a 1-3/4" group is as good as I can shoot open irons anymore, so if the the bonded bullet was more accurate I doubt I could prove it now. I have about 900 of the 180 grain Core-Lokts on my shelf. I might be smarter to just quit here and use this load for everything.

I am in my 60s now and I do not think I am going to kill 900 more big game animals in my life ------ let alone kill them all with one iron sighted Lee rifle.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314589 - 28/03/18 12:42 PM

I don't know what happened to my 2nd photo in the post above. It disappeared, so here it is again.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

The 3 farthest to the left were my next group and then I moved the sight just a smidge to the right and fired the last 3, which made the smallest triangle, one inside the black. I can't do any better than that at my age with open sights. so I just left it right there.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314594 - 28/03/18 01:09 PM

So its a .308/303.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #314595 - 28/03/18 02:33 PM

Or being British ----would it be a 303/308?

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