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mchughcb
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Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull
      #312925 - 23/02/18 10:51 PM

Blaser wins and loses

Just another day of having fun


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313325 - 01/03/18 08:42 AM

In my opinion the BLASER straight pull/push action of the Blaser rifle is about the only bolt rifle on the marker that has a Chinaman's chance of getting off four shots in the same time as a double rifle. On the first two shots any double rifle will get the two off much quicker than even the BLASER bolt rifle. Once those four shots are fired however the next two will be the double rifle while the BLASER is having the magazine re-loaded! All this is having both shooters being equally skilled shooters of their respective rifle types, the blaser shooter will be very close to the double shooter for the first two, and maybe the third shot but shot four will have to come from a reloaded blaser magazine.

IMO, no turn bolt rifle will come close to a double rifle for shot two, three or four as long as both shooters are well skilled with their respective rifles!

None of this is just my opinion, but the results of actual shooting speed and accuracy digitally timed contests.

.................................................Mac!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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crshelton
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #313333 - 01/03/18 09:14 AM

Is this discussion open to all non-double rifle actions or just Blaser bolt actions?



How about 5 fast shots? of 300 grain ammo as 2250 fps?

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

Edited by crshelton (01/03/18 01:38 PM)


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: crshelton]
      #313356 - 01/03/18 07:21 PM

You may post any video of a lever action against a double. The lever will gave to di at least 3500fpe though and it needs to be 8 shots in 35 seconds on target.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313357 - 01/03/18 07:22 PM

Nice looking 405 by the way.

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crshelton
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313365 - 02/03/18 01:35 AM

Thanks, that picture was taken before the rifle had been hunted much.
It is a.405 WCF TD and has had the chamber extended to handle 400 grain Woodleighs crimped on the cannelure.
BTW, there has never been a need for more than two shots on big game with the .405, much less 8, so I will just save my ammo and wisecracks. I also shoot a .405 double, so I would be competing against myself and could not bear to lose either way.

If you like my 1895 .405, you should meet Peter Richards up Port McQuarrie way. His has a scout scope on his and has taken a lot of big critters here in Texas and down under.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/


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Rell
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: crshelton]
      #313372 - 02/03/18 03:45 AM

I can’t defame a 405W Model 95.

I have to say it is not an aplples to apples comparison in the bolt vs. double debate. A 416Rem vs. a 9.3x74r, not so much. The recoil difference and recovery time due to that difference is pretty severe.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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szihn
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rell]
      #313514 - 05/03/18 01:16 PM

Comparing the rifles that way is not a good test.

I did this a while back myself with a CZ602 I made in 460 G&A shooting against a Manton 450/400 double. The double kicked less. Keep that in mind as I tell the story please.

We shot 2 rounds for speed at a 5" target at 15 yards. Hits counted and misses didn't.

I won with the bolt action every time, because my competitor rushed and shot faster but missed 1 time each time we did the drill, and twice he missed both shots. 2 hits for me. 1 hit or no hits for him.

We then shot at a 2 foot sized sand stone at 200 yards. Same test. 2 shot each, no misses counted. There he slowed down and hit every time, but not as fast as I did. Again the bolt action won by a pretty large margin.

Last we shot at the same rock at 200, but for 4 shots. Predictably I won every time. I had that rock hit the 4th time before he had the 3rd and 4th rounds loaded and the gun back on target in most cases.

What did that prove?

I think it proved a man that shoots almost every day for a living, and goes thought about 6,000 to 7,500 rounds a year minimum can out-shoot a man that shoots 5-6 times a year, and goes through about 150-200 rounds total. I am 100% sure of my conclusion. Why? Because we also swapped guns----- and I beat him with his double when he was shooting my bolt action too. Every time!

I sound like a broken record, but I keep saying it's the man, not the tool that is important in shooting.

Buying new cool guns is great, but that doesn't improve your abilities. Be it a super modern fighting pistol, hunting rifle, "tactical rifle" (in the newest fad-caliber) or expensive shotgun.

People do the shooting. Guns are just tools.
Marksmanship is key, not guns and goodies.
______________________________________________________________________
Came back again to add another thought:
To do a valid test I believe we would have to gather about 20 men or more, give each one of them the same 2 rifles and ammo so each one could run the drills, and see what the times were, and then get an average as to which system is faster as a rule.

Just doing it yourself proves nothing except that YOU are faster with one gun over the other.
That's not a test of a kind of gun, but a test of an individual's skills with each gun.

Edited by szihn (05/03/18 01:38 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: szihn]
      #313516 - 05/03/18 01:47 PM

Once again, the voice of reason.

Then there is the guy who empties his rifle while staring at the bear, round after round, into the chamber and out onto the ground, thinking he is shooting the bear, shot after shot. THIS very thing happens too often.

Guys - get out and shoot - practice - moving targets if possible - if not invent other 'games' to practice - hunting positions.

At least in NA & Australia, there is vermin ripe for rifle practice - GET OUT and DO IT!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: szihn]
      #313520 - 05/03/18 09:06 PM

Quote:

Comparing the rifles that way is not a good test.



I think it proved a man that shoots almost every day for a living, and goes thought about 6,000 to 7,500 rounds a year minimum can out-shoot a man that shoots 5-6 times a year, and goes through about 150-200 rounds total. I am 100% sure of my conclusion. Why? Because we also swapped guns----- and I beat him with his double when he was shooting my bolt action too. Every time!Just doing it yourself proves nothing except that YOU are faster with one gun over the other.
That's not a test of a kind of gun, but a test of an individual's skills with each gun.




Okay, lets go with your good test. Do you shoot 7500 rounds minimum per year as a professional? Excellent then it should be no problem to post a couple of videos of each demonstrating your ability with your guns because you'd have to shoot at least 20 shots per day and the event only calls for 8 in 35 seconds with a four loaded in the bolt action. That will be a fair comparison as you will be familiar with both. Infact by the end of the week with 140 rounds down range and more than 70 rounds each you can give us some reasonable stats on accuracy and timing.


Look forward to your posts on this.


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313523 - 05/03/18 09:38 PM

For the average bloke who does average shooting I call out right bullshit on the double being faster with 4 shots. Yes I have seen the Videos but these are not average blokes who does an average amount of shooting.
Now when you talk about blokes who practice and practice then clearly the double is faster with high energy recoil calibres. However if the bloke with the double fumbles at all the bolt gun wins. The double will have the advantage in getting back on target as you just deal with recoil and not working the action as well. For reliability, that, on the surface will go to the bolt gun. Yes. The double only needs a very small amount of grit in it and it won't close. Not from my experience but from a long time African hand who trusted a bolt over a double for that very reason. Had a couple of bad experiences with the double.


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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313530 - 06/03/18 04:10 AM

mchughcb - I have no reason to disbelieve Steve's prowess with a rifle. He's been in the game for a long time.

7,500 rounds is bugger all for a year's shooting.

I'm no professional (was at one time, I guess, depending on what you'd call a professional) and yet I've done close to that just working up loads for a couple different, difficult rifles - wearing the barrels out in the process.

When I was doing a lot of handgun shooting, (.45 and 'some' .38) for the 'modified' IPSC I ran for my boys and the local RCMP, I averaged close to 300 rounds a week (1 day a week), every week except for 2 in one year alone. Some weeks, shoot weeks would be closer to 600. That's close to 15,000 rounds in practice for only one gun. I also hunted - smokeless and muzzleloader, worked up loads for new toys and also shot my 14 bore rifle almost every week as well. That's on top of the other 5 or 6 rifles a I shot a lot.
Every other year was a training year for me, which meant a trip to the Justice Institute for trainer training. That was 2,500rounds of handgun in one 5-day week (500 a day) - along with classroom instruction.
The numbers add up quickly when you are having fun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313540 - 06/03/18 07:13 AM

Im not disputing anything anybody says. Im just asking for a simple video of a good test.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313541 - 06/03/18 07:21 AM

Quote:

For the average bloke who does average shooting I call out right bullshit on the double being faster with 4 shots. Yes I have seen the Videos but these are not average blokes who does an average amount of shooting.
Now when you talk about blokes who practice and practice then clearly the double is faster with high energy recoil calibres. However if the bloke with the double fumbles at all the bolt gun wins. The double will have the advantage in getting back on target as you just deal with recoil and not working the action as well. For reliability, that, on the surface will go to the bolt gun. Yes. The double only needs a very small amount of grit in it and it won't close. Not from my experience but from a long time African hand who trusted a bolt over a double for that very reason. Had a couple of bad experiences with the double.




Who said four shots? The video clearly shows 4 shots out of the 416 is faster. Time was lost in the reload.

Who is average? Im no guru. I took my two rifles and filmed them.


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313544 - 06/03/18 08:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For the average bloke who does average shooting I call out right bullshit on the double being faster with 4 shots. Yes I have seen the Videos but these are not average blokes who does an average amount of shooting.
Now when you talk about blokes who practice and practice then clearly the double is faster with high energy recoil calibres. However if the bloke with the double fumbles at all the bolt gun wins. The double will have the advantage in getting back on target as you just deal with recoil and not working the action as well. For reliability, that, on the surface will go to the bolt gun. Yes. The double only needs a very small amount of grit in it and it won't close. Not from my experience but from a long time African hand who trusted a bolt over a double for that very reason. Had a couple of bad experiences with the double.




Who said four shots? The video clearly shows 4 shots out of the 416 is faster. Time was lost in the reload.

Who is average? Im no guru. I took my two rifles and filmed them.




I said four shots as that is what most of these trials use. Also if the bolt has a detachable mag (and it is change friendly) and you have a spare one this would help the bolt, add to that, the dropping of the mag - as should be done if it is a DG shoot - and not sticking it in a pocket etc. If you have the same or very similar cartridges - recoil wise - in each firearm you may get a more consistent indication. In most situations once past 4 rounds I would think the double would be faster, all things being equal, as most DG calibre bolt actions do not have a detachable magazine.

Chuck you spend a bit of time at the range and I would warrant more time and more rounds down range than most. Do you do any dry drilling?


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Claydog
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313550 - 06/03/18 09:34 AM

The double versus bolt never fails to get a good debate going. Firstly I enjoyed the video and found the comparison interesting. It would be my belief that most professionals that use these type of rifles practice little and I would think plenty go through a season without firing a shot. I think most tough situations are won by the shooters ability to stay calm, not get off as many shots as possible and that for me marks the true professional. I found on the odd occasion it has occurred and compared to others little experience, that the hardest thing was to wait until the target was close enough that the one shot was going to find its mark and do its job. Its fun to compare double v bolt but if the first two havn't done the job your likely dead. The fact that there is so much debate on it tells me that its that close as to not really matter otherwise the argument would have been settled years ago.

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Postman
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Claydog]
      #313561 - 06/03/18 12:34 PM

Quote:

The double versus bolt never fails to get a good debate going. Firstly I enjoyed the video and found the comparison interesting. It would be my belief that most professionals that use these type of rifles practice little and I would think plenty go through a season without firing a shot. I think most tough situations are won by the shooters ability to stay calm, not get off as many shots as possible and that for me marks the true professional. I found on the odd occasion it has occurred and compared to others little experience, that the hardest thing was to wait until the target was close enough that the one shot was going to find its mark and do its job. Its fun to compare double v bolt but if the first two havn't done the job your likely dead. The fact that there is so much debate on it tells me that its that close as to not really matter otherwise the argument would have been settled years ago.




Yup. I would agree.... The tool is only one part of the equation.... What is the shooter most comfortable with? What has the shooter trained to do? I’m mighty fast with my big bore doubles. I am plenty comfortable with my bolts and have high confidence in them. I also suffer from the “admine my shot” syndrome after firing a shot with a bolt gun, which for some strange reason I don’t suffer from in the slightest with a double in my hands.... But: in neither case is it the gun’s feature or defect that causes me to conduct myself this way. It is absolutely a product of what I have conditioned myself to do, or have failed to condition myself to do..... practice, practice, practice..... I need to learn to work that bolt and work it vigourously and without dropping the rifle from my shoulder mount. There is good reason that every target on the course of fire presented to a master IPSC shooter catches two bullet holes in the centre of the target when the timer goes off and the shooter is running and gunning..... It’s called practice and conditioning

Let the debate rage on. My money is on the shooter that has practised proficiency with their tool of choice.


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Postman]
      #313564 - 06/03/18 01:51 PM

Agree Clay dog. Any charging beast closer than 25m is going to collect you before you get a third shot off. Trying to shoot it 8 times at 25m is a moot point.

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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Claydog]
      #313570 - 06/03/18 06:06 PM

Claydog I agree with what you others have said about it being the operator. Also what you say about 2 shots and then being in a world of hurt, yep, can't disagree with that.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313576 - 07/03/18 12:29 AM

Which leads to the obvious question is why the double rifle is to provide a last means of defence against a DG animal do people then try and project it for other uses such as a stalking tool?

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Ripp
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313581 - 07/03/18 02:08 AM

Quote:

Claydog I agree with what you others have said about it being the operator. Also what you say about 2 shots and then being in a world of hurt, yep, can't disagree with that.




Remember reading a story a few years back of a guide/hunter in Alaska for brown bear..don't remember the details other than it was a similar debate on double vs bolt..in that case the guide had been charged by a wounded bear.. he stated that had he not had a bolt and that 3rd shot, he would have been dead... will do some digging to see if I can find that story..

For me, I have both, double and blaser..personally I prefer a bolt when stalking..but again, that is what I have used the most by far...do think it would be fun to take the double however for a tuskless hunt or buff hunt..OR, my bucket list item, hunt/shoot a hippo on land with one..to me, that would be fun...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Ripp]
      #313587 - 07/03/18 04:32 AM

I do not have a double - would like one, though. I use bolt guns only now, except for the 14 bore cap lock.

When hunting alone, I carry one round in the chamber, bolt closed and safety on. I do have 'extra' ammo in a pocket or pouch - rarely needed, so far.

I suppose I might feel better armed if in the company of large bears if I had a few rounds in the magazine.

Interesting discussion. Seems to me, the lads who were on elephant culling exploits preferred bolt actioned .458's or .404's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313598 - 07/03/18 08:47 AM

To answer the questions.
I am a professional in 2 ways I guess.
#1 I earn most of my living these days as a gunsmith and so I fire various guns every day of my life, about 5-6 times a week, but I am not being paid to fire those shot per se. I am being paid to insure the guns (rifles, handguns and shotguns) are in working order and most times, that they are zeroed in, and ready for service.

So some days I may fire 1-3 guns and some days I may fire up to 6-7. As an average I will fire about 20-40 round per gun. Just in the last 4 hours I went through 30 rounds of 38 Special, 18 rounds of 223 from a M700 bolt action and a full box of 45 ACP from a 1911. So today so far I have fired 98 rounds and the day's not over.

So lets say that comes to a loose average of 14 guns per week, with maybe an average of 25-30 shots each. If we call it 27 rounds per gun as a rough guess, that comes to 378 rounds a week, X 49 weeks. ( Not 52 because I take time off for Hunting, Christmas and sometime when I am on the road) That's 18,522 per year, from guns I am working on.

Add to that the 2-3 cases of AK74 and AK47 rounds (5.45 and 7.62) I fire, plus an average of 1,500 5.56 rounds from my AR15s I fire as in instructor, and for students who ask for tutoring, plus most years I'll fire a 1000 round case of 45 ACP and about 2000 rounds of 9MM as an average, and on top of those I will fire about 750 to 1000 rounds of mixed 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag and a few 454s every year.

This is a loose average, and some years the totals will vary quite a bit, but not so much the round-count.

2 years ago as an example, I fired a lot more 45ACP then I did 9mm, but last year my 9MM handguns went through just under 3 cases (1000 rounds each). I also go through a few hundred 308s and 6.8SPCs every year too.
Throw in my fun-shooting, in calibers I am playing with for myself on top of this pile. 8X57, 9.3X57, 9.3X74R, 30-06 270s, 6.5X54 Mann/Scho, 25-06 300 H&H 404 jeffery and muzzleloaders.

So my guess in my post above (7,500) is actually way low.

But I am not a celebrity.

I don't even own a video camera. In fact I don't ever even take my regular camera with me when I go hunting. (something I find I am kicking myself for at times)

So there are no videos of me to the best of my knowledge, unless someone in the Navy or Marine Corps has one, and in classes on Military and Polices ranges I don't know if they would even allow a camera. I never asked. But I somewhat doubt they would.

There are a few members who have posted here in the past who know me however, and have been to my home and range, and shot with me. I won't call them out here, but if they see this post and are comfortable with adding anything, they are very welcome.

If someone doesn't believe me it's 100% ok with me. I don't have a dog in the fight. Their disbelief costs me nothing.

But what I have seen and tested I am willing to report. And that costs them nothing.

Those the have read my posts for years, and those that know me, know I am always focusing on improving my students abilities, and almost never focus on gear or tools. That includes guns and scopes. I will focus on bullet selection in many cases, because this has more to do with the effectiveness of kills then the guns they are fired from in my experience.

Skill trumps everything else in 99.5% of the cases, and skill can be improved, even when students are not wealthy and can't afford the "latest and greatest" or the expensive "elite class" guns of this era or the last one.

It's the man doing the shooting, not the gun.

Edited by szihn (07/03/18 08:51 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: szihn]
      #313599 - 07/03/18 08:59 AM

Ripp I remember reading the same of similar. I must confess when I spoke of DG I was thinking Africa where the shooting often starts at 30 yards or closer and for got about Bears. I have not hunted them but a mate tells me his guide said if the bear was coming at them, once it hit the 100 yard mark they would all be firing at it. Something like 3 seconds to close that gap, that is quick.

I have heard the story of a bloke saying there are a few people in Kenyan graves because they did not have a double and another bloke saying there were just as many because they did have a double. To me this kind of backs up what szihn and others have said. It is mainly the operator not the firearm.


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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313605 - 07/03/18 11:30 AM

I will note the only time I felt vulnerable, was when daughter Carol and I, hunting along a path, walked into a grizzly's living room. Piles of grizzly scat all around, (if a pile of shit larger than a Holstein Cow's pile is still "scat") weeds packed down in a circle 30' in diameter, & fresh tacks in the bit of mud on the trail - stunk to high heaven as we came in from up-wind to get around some bush. There had to be a gut pile or dead animal close by.
Carol had her .260 loaded with 160gr. Sierra RN, one in the magazine, bolt open and I had my .218 Bee Ruger #1 & had 1/2 dozen 50gr. TSX loaded at 3,308fps, in my pocket, nothing in the chamber, action open. LOL - I did feel a mite undergunned. That was the last time I hunted deer with that rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: szihn]
      #313614 - 07/03/18 03:44 PM

Quote:

To answer the questions.
I am a professional in 2 ways I guess.
#1 I earn most of my living these days as a gunsmith and so I fire various guns every day of my life, about 5-6 times a week, but I am not being paid to fire those shot per se. I am being paid to insure the guns (rifles, handguns and shotguns) are in working order and most times, that they are zeroed in, and ready for service.

So some days I may fire 1-3 guns and some days I may fire up to 6-7. As an average I will fire about 20-40 round per gun. Just in the last 4 hours I went through 30 rounds of 38 Special, 18 rounds of 223 from a M700 bolt action and a full box of 45 ACP from a 1911. So today so far I have fired 98 rounds and the day's not over.

So lets say that comes to a loose average of 14 guns per week, with maybe an average of 25-30 shots each. If we call it 27 rounds per gun as a rough guess, that comes to 378 rounds a week, X 49 weeks. ( Not 52 because I take time off for Hunting, Christmas and sometime when I am on the road) That's 18,522 per year, from guns I am working on.

Add to that the 2-3 cases of AK74 and AK47 rounds (5.45 and 7.62) I fire, plus an average of 1,500 5.56 rounds from my AR15s I fire as in instructor, and for students who ask for tutoring, plus most years I'll fire a 1000 round case of 45 ACP and about 2000 rounds of 9MM as an average, and on top of those I will fire about 750 to 1000 rounds of mixed 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag and a few 454s every year.

This is a loose average, and some years the totals will vary quite a bit, but not so much the round-count.

2 years ago as an example, I fired a lot more 45ACP then I did 9mm, but last year my 9MM handguns went through just under 3 cases (1000 rounds each). I also go through a few hundred 308s and 6.8SPCs every year too.
Throw in my fun-shooting, in calibers I am playing with for myself on top of this pile. 8X57, 9.3X57, 9.3X74R, 30-06 270s, 6.5X54 Mann/Scho, 25-06 300 H&H 404 jeffery and muzzleloaders.

So my guess in my post above (7,500) is actually way low.

But I am not a celebrity.

I don't even own a video camera. In fact I don't ever even take my regular camera with me when I go hunting. (something I find I am kicking myself for at times)

So there are no videos of me to the best of my knowledge, unless someone in the Navy or Marine Corps has one, and in classes on Military and Polices ranges I don't know if they would even allow a camera. I never asked. But I somewhat doubt they would.

There are a few members who have posted here in the past who know me however, and have been to my home and range, and shot with me. I won't call them out here, but if they see this post and are comfortable with adding anything, they are very welcome.

If someone doesn't believe me it's 100% ok with me. I don't have a dog in the fight. Their disbelief costs me nothing.

But what I have seen and tested I am willing to report. And that costs them nothing.

Those the have read my posts for years, and those that know me, know I am always focusing on improving my students abilities, and almost never focus on gear or tools. That includes guns and scopes. I will focus on bullet selection in many cases, because this has more to do with the effectiveness of kills then the guns they are fired from in my experience.

Skill trumps everything else in 99.5% of the cases, and skill can be improved, even when students are not wealthy and can't afford the "latest and greatest" or the expensive "elite class" guns of this era or the last one.

It's the man doing the shooting, not the gun.




Nobody has doubted anything to do with how many rounds you fire per year. You said the video was not a good test and proposed something else. I asked you to film it. You say you don't have a video camera. So thats about it.


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eagle27
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313615 - 07/03/18 04:06 PM

The problem I see with these double versus bolt action speed tests, is that they are always conducted and filmed under controlled conditions at non animal, read dangerous animal, targets. It is a ready set go a bit like a timed quick draw.

From what I have observed on several videos hunting elephant and buffalo, the double is certainly very quick for the first two shots, where two quick shots are used from the same position but after the first shot with a double or bolt gun, if the hunter needs to change position for a second shot e.g. move around bush to get a clear view, then the bolt can be reloaded on the move so neither gun type has an advantage.

The disadvantage I've observed with the double comes when both barrels have been emptied and then the hunter is physically pulled or strongly urged by the PH to change position or run away from other agitated animals, then the double user either doesn't reload until he has re-positioned or got out of harms way, or hung back and tried to reload before moving off.
The bolt gun wins hands down as it can be reloaded from the magazine from almost any position to prevent snagging on brush and all the while during full tilt running if need be while the hunter can keep his eyes on where he is running and avoid trips and falls and of course on what the game and PH is doing.

A broken open gun is a pain to reload when moving around and running let alone when running through brush and over uneven ground. Next time when out with your SxS or O/U shotgun, try reloading on the run and then try the same with your semi-auto, not for the speed of shots, but just for the shear ease of having a magazine full and also the ease of recharging the magazine on the trot.

I have observed in videos even the most experienced hunters and users of doubles either not reloading when on the run thus have an empty gun and relying on the PH to provide quick follow up shots with his bolt gun or fluffing around trying to eject empties, pluck two more cartridges from the belt and recharge their double all the while being urged by the PH to move.

Yes for two aimed and quick shots on animals the double is in it's glory but comparisons between doubles and bolts as to who can fire the most shots faster under controlled range conditions and uncontrolled field conditions are chalk and cheese.

If i was urged to run by a PH because I've got an ele or buff up my chuff I'd be beating the PH to the tape not pissing around trying to recharge a double.


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: eagle27]
      #313616 - 07/03/18 05:02 PM

Running, reloading and hitting a target with a break action. Who would have thought it could be done.

https://youtu.be/0OdGMaLhHts


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313617 - 07/03/18 05:57 PM

Quote:

Running, reloading and hitting a target with a break action. Who would have thought it could be done.

https://youtu.be/0OdGMaLhHts




I'm not seeing you running on uneven ground, avoiding bush's while the heart is pumping hard and seeing anything being reloaded while moving. Maybe a shot shell I am guessing. Not quite in the same league as moving from or to engage DG at close range.

I have loaded SXS shotguns on the move and it is not that easy when on uneven ground or in bush and keeping the barrels in a safe direction. Can be done but takes time, relatively speaking. It is far easier and quicker to change a magazine on a bolt gun or stick an extra round in a fixed mag on some bolt guns. ie on a CZ 550 but not say a Rem 700.


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eagle27
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313618 - 07/03/18 07:10 PM

I must be seeing something different, I see you fire a shot then stand by the same fence post you fired from as you reload then move off slightly for another angle to fire your second shot?
Rule303 has obviously been there done that, it just ain't as easy as cranking another round from the magazine of a bolt gun while on the move, or for that matter if things really go south, getting another round up the spout if fallen to the ground. You haven't got a hope in hell of achieving that with a double.

But if facing a charging dangerous animal at close range I would definitely appreciate a double with two sure shots, bang bang flop dead hopefully. As a matter of having fun to prove a moot point yes go for it and have fun, I just don't see these comparative speed shots between a double gun and a magazine bolt gun under very calm and controlled conditions as being relevant to field conditions considering the situations these dangerous game guns often enough find themselves being used.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: eagle27]
      #313621 - 07/03/18 08:05 PM

Before we have all out war may I remind everybody that the actual discipline is called "Special Snap" where 8 rounds are fired in 35 seconds with a minimum caliber of 0.330". Four rounds may only be loaded in the bolt actions when first loading and then it is up to the shooter to decide in what order he loads and shoots the remaining four. It is open to bolt action, double rifles and single shots. The original concept for the event was nothing more than having fun shooting 8 rounds in 35 seconds, it was never supposed to be a test to prove one type of firearm to be better than another. The discipline is very popular and is the favorite event of most shooters. I should mention that among all the people who shoot, and most of the BGRC people shoot regularly, there is en even mix of bolt action and doubles with the odd single shot. In the end most people whether young or old and regardless of the firearm type finish the event in between 30 and 35 seconds.

Waidmannsheil.

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Postman
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #313624 - 07/03/18 09:35 PM

Wouldnt it have been interesting if Blaser had dispensed with the staight pull bolt knob and instead affixed action bars to the bolt and the other end of the action bars to a sliding forend aka the pump action!! Add to this wonderful reconfiguration a mod that allows stripper clips to reload the mag in the rifle and you have one big ass nasty fast rifle!!! The R8 action is certainly strong enough for large bore DG cartridges and a reconfigure to a pump action would change the game considrerably. Two hands on the stock, never having to shift hands about to work a silly bolt, and a stripper clip to recharge the mag!!!!!!! Aw hell, lets just go full auto!!!!!

Sport hunting is not culling. They are different tasks and may call for different approaches. Fire power “may” be desireable in some certain sticky situations, but not always for the sport hunter. Know your gear, use what makes YOU happy and have respect for those who wish to approach things a little differently.... I want my PH to be a great hunter and to have my back, but first and foremost I want confidence in myself to get me out of a sticky situation with whatever I choose to use. I am most certain that others wont feel a thing if I get clocked by a big pissed off animal. Me on the other hand will feel each and every broken bone and ripped guts.

These discussions are absolutely wonderful to my mind because it allows me to hear about what others think and to get different perspectives on solving a given issue...... I can then assimilate all the opionions and either change or modify mine if something makes sense to me....... I can’t do that without the opinions of others.

Edited by Postman (07/03/18 09:46 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #313625 - 07/03/18 09:56 PM

Quote:

Before we have all out war may I remind everybody that the actual discipline is called "Special Snap" where 8 rounds are fired in 35 seconds with a minimum caliber of 0.330". Four rounds may only be loaded in the bolt actions when first loading and then it is up to the shooter to decide in what order he loads and shoots the remaining four. It is open to bolt action, double rifles and single shots. The original concept for the event was nothing more than having fun shooting 8 rounds in 35 seconds, it was never supposed to be a test to prove one type of firearm to be better than another. The discipline is very popular and is the favorite event of most shooters. I should mention that among all the people who shoot, and most of the BGRC people shoot regularly, there is en even mix of bolt action and doubles with the odd single shot. In the end most people whether young or old and regardless of the firearm type finish the event in between 30 and 35 seconds.

Waidmannsheil.




Exactly.

I found the video interesting and entertaining and illustrative of how a break open double rifle CAN out shoot a bolt action for speed over eight shots in the Special Snap competition. Cool video for mchughcb to post to entertain everyone with.

Does it prove anything absolutely? Of course not.

Good shooting bt mchughcb in both as well. Well done. I asusme it is you in both halves of the video.

BTW if I remember rightly in the BGRC Nationals in Tasmania a few years ago, Alex Beer won it, or was in the top three, shooting a big bore single shot. Eight well aimed shots in 35 seconds from his, I guess, .500 NE.

As for it not "being the rifle, but being the shooter" it shows the guys who do practice shooting rapidly their rifles, and reloading under pressure are better at it if they do this competition many times again and again. Irrespective of whether they are on a range or the crater pocked face of mars, not facing a fire breathing elefalo, hanging off a glacial precipice, while reloading their bolt actioned twin barrelled single shot with one broken arm and the other arm's wrist snapped off ...

PS Same for practicing the charging lion or buffalo target, one, two or three shots, on target, under pressure, also good practice for the real thing. Except the paper target doesn't kill you if you miss a 10 point shot.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: NitroX]
      #313626 - 07/03/18 09:57 PM

mchughcb,

Please keep posting. And stirring things up. Ha ha.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313638 - 08/03/18 12:16 AM

Quote:

Ripp I remember reading the same of similar. I must confess when I spoke of DG I was thinking Africa where the shooting often starts at 30 yards or closer and for got about Bears. I have not hunted them but a mate tells me his guide said if the bear was coming at them, once it hit the 100 yard mark they would all be firing at it. Something like 3 seconds to close that gap, that is quick.






100 yards or 91m in 3 seconds is a top speed of 109.2km/hr. Unless the bear was tied to the front of a Tesla S model bonnet I'm calling that claim BS.


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Ripp
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313644 - 08/03/18 01:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ripp I remember reading the same of similar. I must confess when I spoke of DG I was thinking Africa where the shooting often starts at 30 yards or closer and for got about Bears. I have not hunted them but a mate tells me his guide said if the bear was coming at them, once it hit the 100 yard mark they would all be firing at it. Something like 3 seconds to close that gap, that is quick.






100 yards or 91m in 3 seconds is a top speed of 109.2km/hr. Unless the bear was tied to the front of a Tesla S model bonnet I'm calling that claim BS.




It may be a slight exaggeration but probably not that far off..
If a human can do it in 8.8 seconds, (see below)....humans don't hold a candle to a griz..Have never experienced a charge from a griz..have from a black bear or two..the flat out get after it..have to say the fastest charge I have ever personally witnessed was from a leopard ..insanely fast..could not believe my eyes..

Usain Bolt and the 100 Yard dash. Taking his 9.58 splits from 2009 WC in Berlin, Usain Bolt split 90 meters in 8.75. You can take his last 10m segment (0.83 sec) and multiply that by 0.144 to get 0.1195 seconds. That makes a grand total of 8.75 + 0.12 = 8.87 seconds for an approximate 100 yard dash.

To my knowledge the fast human is around 27MPH --griz in excess of 35mph closer to 40mph..that is smoking...have a friend who, while bow hunting come upon a young male griz on a kill..said he was about 30-40 yards off when he and the bear locked eyes..my friend stepped behind a tree and by the time he had his hand on his gun to pull it out of the holster the bear was beside the tree..not enough time to pull the handgun from the holster...I am old enough now to where I feel I will state, Never say never...within reason of course..

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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313647 - 08/03/18 05:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ripp I remember reading the same of similar. I must confess when I spoke of DG I was thinking Africa where the shooting often starts at 30 yards or closer and for got about Bears. I have not hunted them but a mate tells me his guide said if the bear was coming at them, once it hit the 100 yard mark they would all be firing at it. Something like 3 seconds to close that gap, that is quick.






100 yards or 91m in 3 seconds is a top speed of 109.2km/hr. Unless the bear was tied to the front of a Tesla S model bonnet I'm calling that claim BS.




You are right - they only run about 35-40mph - what's that? 65kph - so - 4 1/2 seconds for 100meters? Lot so time to get in one shot from my 14 bore single shot ML. lol I'd be waiting a few seconds before shooting.

We (junior forest officers) in a bus driven by a man who absolutely hated bears, chased a big sow black bear down a highway in Northern Ontario at a speed of 35 MPH - for about 1 mile maybe 1 1/2 miles before she veered off the pavement without slowing down while running through some young aspen trees. We could hear her breaking them off as she ran - not kidding, not slowing down at all. That was an eye-opener.

I've read a grizzly or brown can run a little bit faster than that.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: eagle27]
      #313652 - 08/03/18 07:12 AM

Quote:

I must be seeing something different, I see you fire a shot then stand by the same fence post you fired from as you reload then move off slightly for another angle to fire your second shot?
Rule303 has obviously been there done that, it just ain't as easy as cranking another round from the magazine of a bolt gun while on the move, or for that matter if things really go south, getting another round up the spout if fallen to the ground. You haven't got a hope in hell of achieving that with a double.

But if facing a charging dangerous animal at close range I would definitely appreciate a double with two sure shots, bang bang flop dead hopefully. As a matter of having fun to prove a moot point yes go for it and have fun, I just don't see these comparative speed shots between a double gun and a magazine bolt gun under very calm and controlled conditions as being relevant to field conditions considering the situations these dangerous game guns often enough find themselves being used.




I shoot three foxes in that sequence. The last one im reloading as it runs past and im running to cut it off. At the point i stop,give it lead and drop it. I have other videos of me running and reloading and firing however because for some reason they are not elephants in every free video i make without adds for people to pass judgement on it completely invalidates anything i say.

Edited by mchughcb (08/03/18 07:15 AM)


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: NitroX]
      #313653 - 08/03/18 07:39 AM

Quote:

mchughcb,

Please keep posting. And stirring things up. Ha ha.




The original post was another day having fun. Now it about how many shots people shoot per year, the need to run towards DG while reloading and how fast a bear can run after a good dump lol!

Yes it was me shooting and filming both with two rifles and calibres i hunt with.


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313654 - 08/03/18 08:45 AM

Quote:

was an eye-opener.

I've read a grizzly or brown can run a little bit faster than that.




I have a fair idea how fast a sambar deer can run. and 60km/hr for a fit young stag is tops. I base that on actually chasing one and filming it for about the same distance, on flat even ground.

https://youtu.be/hKEem5SVAd0


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313664 - 08/03/18 02:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

mchughcb,

Please keep posting. And stirring things up. Ha ha.




The original post was another day having fun. Now it about how many shots people shoot per year, the need to run towards DG while reloading and how fast a bear can run after a good dump lol!

Yes it was me shooting and filming both with two rifles and calibres i hunt with.




Yep, when you do the math's the bear is not going to cover 100yds in 3 sec. I doubt anybody has actually timed it over a measured 100yds. I presume they are just going off estimates. 4.5 sec to cover the 100 still does not give to much time to scratch your bum and pick your nose before shooting.:-)

Your the one that tried to show how you could reload a hinged rifle while running. Yes we know it can be done but the context you presented it in, was that it could be done with ease. Just showing that in the situations we were talking about, with ease it most likely can not be done.

As you know what a thread starts out as most often changes a bit.

The original post was good and entertaining for sure.

Edited by Rule303 (08/03/18 02:22 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313666 - 08/03/18 02:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

mchughcb,

Please keep posting. And stirring things up. Ha ha.




The original post was another day having fun. Now it about how many shots people shoot per year, the need to run towards DG while reloading and how fast a bear can run after a good dump lol!

Yes it was me shooting and filming both with two rifles and calibres i hunt with.




Yeah mate I realised it was just a fun video. Good on you for posting.

--------------------
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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eagle27
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313671 - 08/03/18 05:03 PM

Quote:

Running, reloading and hitting a target with a break action. Who would have thought it could be done.




Of course it can be done, I certainly didn't deny that just as I have acknowledged the OP's post of having fun with a Blaser versus double. I have only pointed out that when it comes to a comparative experiment, after other posters queried experience, number of shots fired etc, etc, that there is a big difference if the same test was done in the field under duress.

Running after a fox in a flat paddock while reloading your top barrel on your Blaser is hardly a good comparison with reloading both barrels of a double rifle in a hurry with dangerous game breathing down your neck while on the run and 90% or more of the time, in scrub and on uneven ground.

I do enjoy your videos, I'm sure I seen some before. I've used my U/O Miroku with a 22 magnum insert for hunting rabbit and hare, shame we don't have foxes here, but all good fun as you seem to have with your Blaser


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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: eagle27]
      #313675 - 08/03/18 05:34 PM

Those loads are 42gr magnum loads and in some cases 56gr loads. They have enough recoil alright. And right up there with the 9.3x74R 286gr.

I guess nobody is satisfied until i get a statistical outcomeof 10 helephumps being shot several times at several angles running to and from the target while self filming. I mean how hard can it be?


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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313676 - 08/03/18 05:57 PM

I am satisfied but would still like to see that.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Claydog]
      #313678 - 08/03/18 06:19 PM

My experience in the north RSA where there was elephants , lions and leopards was visibility was quite poor in the elephant thorns, ground was quite flat and there weren't many, if any trees to hid or climb if you were attacked. Pretty much like jungle regrowth when i was in Venezuela. So the notion of getting much more than two shots off or running regardless of the uneveness under foot would have been a bad outcome. But that was just my own observation.

Edited by mchughcb (08/03/18 06:21 PM)


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Claydog
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313679 - 08/03/18 07:10 PM

I have on a few rare occasions had to shoot a charging water buffalo that had been wounded. I have also seen how some other people have reacted to the situation and I have found it to be a very interesting experience. I don't like to shoot when guiding as it is not my hunt and only fire when I believe someone will get hurt or an animal will get away wounded. It is very rare for one to charge but the few times it has I let the hunter have the opportunity to shoot it first. Until someone is in that situation they do not know how they will react. It is not like any simulation you could dream up. The first time I was in the situation I was surprised at a couple of things. First thing was physically feeling my heart rate increase at the realisation of what was happening was for real. The next thing was how everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. I noticed details of the animal like a chipped horn and the muscle movement in the neck behind the head as it was coming towards me. I had no thought at all of running and the only movement I made was to step around the hunter and ask him to get behind me. He had shot twice with no effect. I resisted the urge to shoot and waited until the animal got close enough that I was sure I would hit it where I wanted to. It seemed to take forever but I think it was about 15yards when I shot it and hit it just where the spine joins the head as it dropped its head. I believe hunters panic and start shooting at too great a distance and concentrate too much on firing quickly. Patience and remaining calm are what I believe wins out. I had read JA Hunter describing waiting out a charge until you could be sure of a shot and if it was good enough for him it is sure good enough for me. This has been my experience only and it may be completely different for others. If you try this and miss. Don't call me.

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mchughcb
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313680 - 08/03/18 08:42 PM

Quote:



At least in NA & Australia, there is vermin ripe for rifle practice - GET OUT and DO IT!




Every week
Not much time for the third.

Shooting fromt the hip

No time for three shots


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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Claydog]
      #313684 - 08/03/18 10:36 PM

Quote:

I resisted the urge to shoot and waited until the animal got close enough that I was sure I would hit it where I wanted to. It seemed to take forever but I think it was about 15yards when I shot it and hit it just where the spine joins the head as it dropped its head.




Yep it can be hard to wait, but the shot is surer when the beast is closer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313692 - 09/03/18 04:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

mchughcb,

Please keep posting. And stirring things up. Ha ha.




The original post was another day having fun. Now it about how many shots people shoot per year, the need to run towards DG while reloading and how fast a bear can run after a good dump lol!

Yes it was me shooting and filming both with two rifles and calibres i hunt with.




Yep, when you do the math's the bear is not going to cover 100yds in 3 sec. I doubt anybody has actually timed it over a measured 100yds. I presume they are just going off estimates. 4.5 sec to cover the 100 still does not give to much time to scratch your bum and pick your nose before shooting.:-)

Your the one that tried to show how you could reload a hinged rifle while running. Yes we know it can be done but the context you presented it in, was that it could be done with ease. Just showing that in the situations we were talking about, with ease it most likely can not be done.

As you know what a thread starts out as most often changes a bit.

The original post was good and entertaining for sure.




Hmmm ..Weird...

I'm hearing crickets to this...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: NitroX]
      #313694 - 09/03/18 05:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I resisted the urge to shoot and waited until the animal got close enough that I was sure I would hit it where I wanted to. It seemed to take forever but I think it was about 15yards when I shot it and hit it just where the spine joins the head as it dropped its head.




Yep it can be hard to wait, but the shot is surer when the beast is closer.




But how does one calculate the 'slide' or 'topple' distance. Not much use dropping the animal dead and it slides or topples over top of you.

In all seriousness it does happen, good video of charging lion killed instantly and slides up and slobbers over the crouching shooter. A PH recently crushed to death by a falling elephant. A tonne of Aussie buffalo on top wouldn't be too pleasant. I've drop them close but got my calculation right


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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: eagle27]
      #313697 - 09/03/18 07:22 AM

John Buhmiller had a dead buff knock him over and head land in his lap. His legs and hips were bruised for months.
Kill a grizzly mid-stride and good chance he will bowl you over. Spray him with pepper spray and he'll stop mid-stride from the same distance - maybe - if the spray is correctly placed and he's sensitive to it.

Can't help but think of my daughter's tree planting crew getting back to camp & finding a large black bear on the park picnic table eating a can of bear spray. His face was red from the capsicum pepper spray coming out the canine holes he put in the can - & there he was, lapping it up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313716 - 09/03/18 10:40 AM

Quote:

John Buhmiller had a dead buff knock him over and head land in his lap. His legs and hips were bruised for months.
Kill a grizzly mid-stride and good chance he will bowl you over. Spray him with pepper spray and he'll stop mid-stride from the same distance - maybe - if the spray is correctly placed and he's sensitive to it.

Can't help but think of my daughter's tree planting crew getting back to camp & finding a large black bear on the park picnic table eating a can of bear spray. His face was red from the capsicum pepper spray coming out the canine holes he put in the can - & there he was, lapping it up.




Well Pepper spray works on some but not all humans so I guess it is the same for other critters. I would have loved to see the faces of those walking into the above.

Where I hunted Elephant in the Zambezi Valley the terrain came in all shapes and sizes. Thick jess like Chuck described, open, flat, hill, rocky, treed, bush and combinations of these. Got mine after moving through a small sharp rocky gully. On top of a hill shooting down at 15 meters. Didn't have to move to engage, one shot drop - brain- then had to stand our ground as the herd charged. Trackers, game scout and I followed the PH's lead jumping up and down, yelling waving arms. Herd stopped about 10 mts from us, any closer and the Game Scout was going to give the "Shoot to kill" call. Mention this only to show that a situation may arise where you need all the ammo you can use. Yes I did put a second shot into the Ele once the herd moved on. Same with the Cape Buff. So yep you can get your Heffelumps in all sorts of country

Edited by Rule303 (09/03/18 11:01 AM)


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mchughcb
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Reged: 21/02/14
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Rule303]
      #313729 - 09/03/18 02:23 PM

How did it taste?

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Rule303
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: mchughcb]
      #313740 - 09/03/18 05:18 PM

Quote:

How did it taste?




Buff was great, all of the Ele went to the villages and some fat to the trackers. Would have liked to try the Ele.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313757 - 10/03/18 02:57 AM

Quote:

Can't help but think of my daughter's tree planting crew getting back to camp & finding a large black bear on the park picnic table eating a can of bear spray. His face was red from the capsicum pepper spray coming out the canine holes he put in the can - & there he was, lapping it up.




Sounds like a dog I used to have. You can buy sprays fmade from chilli and curry designed to prevent a dog chewing stuff. That dog enjoyed the flavour and it did not bother him at all.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: NitroX]
      #313765 - 10/03/18 04:57 AM

I tested my wife's bear spray (about 1988) after making sure I was up-wind. I made a short spray onto the grass.
My springer ran over, smelled the red grass, licked it then went back to playing with a bird dummy.
No effect, yet our eyes were burning a bit and tightness in the throat due to a bit of a back-draft swirling air current, I assume.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #313773 - 10/03/18 07:48 AM

The pepper spray just made it madder......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgrpS6ef_08

That is why Brother Maynard did not have mere pepper spray......


In all seriousness; I used some “HeatWave” 18+5 OC spray on a black bear that was in my neighbors garbage.....basically no effect. The guy just sneezed and trotted off at a quite leisurely pace. (I was backed up by my son with the the .44mag).

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Elgjaeger
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Reged: 06/09/15
Posts: 1
Loc: Norway
Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: DarylS]
      #314422 - 24/03/18 05:10 PM

This is fast bolt action shooting...

https://youtu.be/CrROt7f1P-0


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mchughcb
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Reged: 21/02/14
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Double Rifle Speed versus Blaser Straight Pull [Re: Elgjaeger]
      #314430 - 24/03/18 08:49 PM

Not with a 416 Remington its not lol!

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