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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 545
Loc: Canada
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: szihn]
      #312513 - 17/02/18 11:39 AM

Quote:

Well I better set you straight.

I am a full time gunsmith and I used to work for a Remington Service Center. I have been a gunsmith for almost 1/2 a century now.

Yes, their extractors do fail.

Not in huge number numerically speaking, but yes they do, and in fact, they do more than every other extractor of every other modern rifle combined.

I know, I am the one replacing them.

Looking at my books for the last 10 years as I write this (from 4 shops I do work for in central Wyoming)I can find 17 references to replacing Remington extractors. Now 17 out of many thousands of 700s in use in Wyoming is not a high percentage I'll grant you, but when I look through the same books I find:

3 repairs on shotgun extractors, One on a Spanish double, one on an old M12 Winchester and one on a Remington 870.

2 on other bolt action center fire rifles, one Marlin XL7 and one on a Mossberg MVP.

One on a Winchester M92 38-40.

2 on bolt action 22s. One a Winchester M69 and one Brazilian FIE import.

Also one on a very old 1911 pistol.

So that's 17 for Remington rifles and 9 for every other gun combined in the last 10 years from these 4 shops.

Now keep in mind, this is through independent gun shops and ONLY in 2 counties in Wyoming. When I worked for Remington Service I replaced about 1-2 a week, for 2 years.

In my life I have had to replace one extractor on an M1-Garand.

And I will also grant that our guns should receive some care. But saying that the Remington M700 style extractor is "good" because they only break if neglected is a weak argument for it's design.

I have seen many of these that were not "well kept" either.

M1 Garands.
M14s.
Carcanos.
Mannlichers.
AKs.
FALs
G3s
Krags. (MANY)
Springfields. (MANY)
Enfields in SMLE, 1914, and 1917 types. (MANY MANY!)
Mausers. (MANY MANY MANY!)
Mosin Nagants. (MANY MANY MANY MANY!)

About 1/3 of these old guns I have worked on are 2X older then the design of the 700 extractor (M720 was the 1st from the mid 1950s) and have been being neglected for that long too, but still work.

I have worked on more WW1 and Pre-WW1 guns than I can easily count and restored or sporterized them, but only a very few ever had a broken or non-functional extractor.
I can remember two Mosin Nagants that broke, one bent 95 Mauser, and one US Krag that came to me with it's extractor missing, so it was lost or discarded before I got it.

We are talking about guns that are now over 100 years old.

I am not saying Remington extractors don't work.

I am saying they should make something better. EVERYONE else on earth that makes a bolt action, makes one better.
So should Remington.




I absolutely defer to Szihn on this one......his is the type of testimonial that comes from a real world fact based perspective...


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312517 - 17/02/18 12:25 PM

Quote:

The 'problem' had to have been the guy who installed it.

This is a common 'fix' for the small cir-clip extractors Remingtons come with, that sometimes give
fits for stool shooters (small-bore Benchrest) due to the hot loads they use, causing problems.
Done correctly, the beefier "Sako" style extractor is much more positive in extraction properties.




Agree Daryl..as I have not heard otherwise from others as well
thx
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1448
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312521 - 17/02/18 01:47 PM

I tip that will likely save all Remington shooters grief in their futures is simply to put a drop of Hoppes #9 on the bolt face 1-2 times a year. Just enough to wet the area behind the extractor. It need not be dripping, just lightly wet.

If you look at how the extractors are placed in the bolts you'll see that brass powder from the scraping action of the extractor tooth is likely to build up BEHIND the extractor. When the race gets full the ends of the extractor are forced to do all the flexing, instead of the entire circumference of the clip doing the same thing. In other words, 20% of the clip is doing 100% of the work. That can cause a stress crack.

I drop of Hoppes will dissolve the copper in the brass powder and turn it into liquid. And Hoppes doesn't ever attack steel.

Just doing that alone would probably eliminate 99% of the cases of broken extractors I have to replace.
I would rather a shooter clean his Remington Bolt Face then clean his bore. A fouled bore will not shoot as accurately, but it doesn't cause the gun to break.


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17862
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: szihn]
      #312525 - 17/02/18 02:10 PM

Good tip, thanks Steve. I will do that. I keep a bottle of Hoppe's #9 just for the oil, same as the BR shooters of the 90's posting in Precision Shooting magazine. They are also fun to read.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Homer
.400 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2186
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312536 - 17/02/18 06:34 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Thanks also Szihn for that tip.
I give my Remington's a clean out with a tooth brush but as you suggest, this may also force some of this brass further in.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 2922
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: szihn]
      #312559 - 18/02/18 08:46 AM

Quote:

I tip that will likely save all Remington shooters grief in their futures is simply to put a drop of Hoppes #9 on the bolt face 1-2 times a year. Just enough to wet the area behind the extractor. It need not be dripping, just lightly wet.

If you look at how the extractors are placed in the bolts you'll see that brass powder from the scraping action of the extractor tooth is likely to build up BEHIND the extractor. When the race gets full the ends of the extractor are forced to do all the flexing, instead of the entire circumference of the clip doing the same thing. In other words, 20% of the clip is doing 100% of the work. That can cause a stress crack.

I drop of Hoppes will dissolve the copper in the brass powder and turn it into liquid. And Hoppes doesn't ever attack steel.

Just doing that alone would probably eliminate 99% of the cases of broken extractors I have to replace.
I would rather a shooter clean his Remington Bolt Face then clean his bore. A fouled bore will not shoot as accurately, but it doesn't cause the gun to break.




That is a damned good idea. One I will be doing. Thanks szihn.


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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1033
Loc: fla
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312671 - 19/02/18 01:18 PM

i see new companys poping up and surviving and rem. flailing around like colt. someone even brought ithaca back to life made here in the states and have a bolt gun too. weatherby moving still alive mossberg selling good.just bad management. as far as gun ownership they have lost their heads go to rural king on an average day u still have to wait to see something

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1033
Loc: fla
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312673 - 19/02/18 01:25 PM

last i heard 117 million households 225 million adults 300 million guns or more. 70million gun owners.then minus feleons and aleins

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1033
Loc: fla
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: ducmarc]
      #312676 - 19/02/18 01:35 PM

google says 'depending where u look' 20 million felons and 12 million aleins assuming that those don't overlap that would subtract 32 million from 225 would make193 million eligable for a firearm.so that would get closer to half.then there are people like my daughters all three have firearms all were gifts so they are not counted. my sisters are not counted. until recently my father was not counted either. i figure at least half the country has one. i just bought another safe so i might be a super duper owner

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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ducmarc
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Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: ducmarc]
      #312677 - 19/02/18 01:40 PM

also about remington ,savage has come along too as soon as they found out they could change the barrel with a wrench they should have jumped on it to. sell a three barrel set and make it a hand tighten deal too

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: ducmarc]
      #312681 - 19/02/18 01:51 PM

Quote:

google says 'depending where u look' 20 million felons and 12 million aleins assuming that those don't overlap that would subtract 32 million from 225 would make193 million eligable for a firearm.s




20 million felons, out of maybe a total population of 250 to 300 million people! No wonder you have such a crime problem in the USA. That is a huge percentage.

Around about 7% of the total population is a felon???

And now to be 'racist'. If many or most of them are ethnically based, how many of those ethnic groups do not have a record? A high percentage at least are felons.

The high crime rate is easily explained by the high numbers of criminals if those numbers are correct. And also the numbers of shootings and murders.

12 million aliens would be up to about 4% of the total percentage. Also quite a high number.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1033
Loc: fla
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: NitroX]
      #312682 - 19/02/18 01:58 PM

its a mess in most cities.27percent of blacks .they are 17 percent of the population i'm not sure how or if they are counting childern either most of black crime is 14 to 30 so they may not even be counting all of it.if u can you tube live PD and that gives u a sense of what cops go through. i think every high schooler should do a ride along to break those rose covered glasses

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9855
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Rule303]
      #312703 - 20/02/18 01:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I tip that will likely save all Remington shooters grief in their futures is simply to put a drop of Hoppes #9 on the bolt face 1-2 times a year. Just enough to wet the area behind the extractor. It need not be dripping, just lightly wet.

If you look at how the extractors are placed in the bolts you'll see that brass powder from the scraping action of the extractor tooth is likely to build up BEHIND the extractor. When the race gets full the ends of the extractor are forced to do all the flexing, instead of the entire circumference of the clip doing the same thing. In other words, 20% of the clip is doing 100% of the work. That can cause a stress crack.

I drop of Hoppes will dissolve the copper in the brass powder and turn it into liquid. And Hoppes doesn't ever attack steel.

Just doing that alone would probably eliminate 99% of the cases of broken extractors I have to replace.
I would rather a shooter clean his Remington Bolt Face then clean his bore. A fouled bore will not shoot as accurately, but it doesn't cause the gun to break.




That is a damned good idea. One I will be doing. Thanks szihn.




Agree--thank you Steve..and my Remington's thank you..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1033
Loc: fla
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Ripp]
      #312896 - 23/02/18 01:03 PM

kinda on the same line went to rural king today one ar 15 left . 20 people around white and black waiting to buy and their background check the other day there was a rack of ar's and a pile of pistols . couldn't even get close to look.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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fsrmg1
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Reged: 25/07/03
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Loc: Western Australia
Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314615 - 28/03/18 08:51 PM

Keep in mind, that these surveys typically target specific groups that will give them the results tgat they want, and with gun ownership being under attack from about every direction, people will conceal owning a gun if able to.

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Remington filing for bankruptcy [Re: NitroX]
      #314624 - 29/03/18 12:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

google says 'depending where u look' 20 million felons and 12 million aleins assuming that those don't overlap that would subtract 32 million from 225 would make193 million eligable for a firearm.s




20 million felons, out of maybe a total population of 250 to 300 million people! No wonder you have such a crime problem in the USA. That is a huge percentage.

Around about 7% of the total population is a felon???

And now to be 'racist'. If many or most of them are ethnically based, how many of those ethnic groups do not have a record? A high percentage at least are felons.

The high crime rate is easily explained by the high numbers of criminals if those numbers are correct. And also the numbers of shootings and murders.

12 million aliens would be up to about 4% of the total percentage. Also quite a high number.




---------------


In 2016 an estimated 6.1 million people in the United States (2.5% of the nation's voting age population, excluding DC) could not vote due to a felony conviction - an increase of 4.2% from the 2010 total of 5.85 million and the highest number since at least 1960..

https://www.libertariannews.org/2014/06/...ony-conviction/
What Percentage of The US Adult Population Has a Felony Conviction?
by Michael Suede • June 5, 2014
If you’ve ever wondered about this question, then this 2010 study is for you!

About 25% of the total US adult black population has a felony, while 6.5% of adult non-blacks have a felony conviction. About 8.6% of the adult population has a felony conviction.

Florida is a particularly egregious police state. 35% of adult blacks in Florida have felony conviction, 14% of the total adult population in Florida have a felony conviction.

About 20 million people have a felony conviction in Amerika. That works out to about 1 in 12 adult Americans.

Note, those numbers are for 2010. Looking at the growth rate trajectory, we are probably up to around 24 million people today in 2014 with a felony conviction. This means we are probably pushing 10% of the adult population today. Of course, these aggregate percentages include women, which as we all know account for a small portion of all felony convictions.

One other thing to consider is that a large number of would-be felonies are plead down to misdemeanors, so the actual total number of people who were caught committing a felonious act is undoubtedly much higher than these numbers portray.

If no criminals took a plea deal, and all felonies were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, the entire US criminal justice system would implode within a year. Over 95% of federal cases never go to trial.

Read the book Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent by Harvey Silverglate. After you’re done reading that, watch some people getting arrested for feeding the homeless and for slow dancing in public. I got plenty more where those came from.

The paper notes:

This paper has described growth in the size and social distribution of the American “criminal class.” If we use current or former imprisonment as the criterion for class membership, we estimate its size at approximately 7.7 million people at year-end 2010. By our estimates, about 3.4 percent of the adult voting age population have once served or are currently serving time in a state or federal prison. If we adopt a more inclusive definition of the criminal class, including all convicted of a felony regardless of imprisonment, these numbers increase to 19.8 million persons, representing 8.6 percent of the adult population and approximately one third of the African American adult male population. Any group of this size will have profound and far-reaching social, political, and demographic consequences. Because the felon population is drawn so heavily from the most disadvantaged groups in American society, however, understanding this group’s historical growth and current size is vitally important for understanding and addressing U.S. social inequalities.

For the socialists who blame “capitalism” for this mess, here’s small taste of what a real market based system might look like:

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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