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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 291
Loc: NW Montana
The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle
      #309781 - 02/01/18 03:31 AM

During this winter cold spell, I have enjoyed rereading my copy of The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle by Ned Roberts. I would encourage anyone who is interested in muzzle loading guns or the history of shooting to find a copy. Originally printed in 1940, it has been reprinted many times and is not too hard to find.

Of course Ned Roberts is remembered for developing the 257 Roberts but he grew up at the end of the muzzle loading era. The book has lots of information about the old US gunmakers like Perry, Wesson and Brockway. He covers the development of bullets from the round ball to the paper patched bullet in many forms, to the naked grease groove bullet. And he tells some great stories about bear hunting in New England with muzzleloaders. A great read.


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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 291
Loc: NW Montana
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #309782 - 02/01/18 03:43 AM

He covers in great detail the rifle matches beginning in 1874 between the Irish and American teams. Some of the shooting done then, with black powder and cast bullets, would put modern shooters to shame. None of these wimpy 3 shot groups either. Lots of pictures of 10 to 40 shot groups at 200 to 1000 yards. A lot of what we do now is reinventing the wheel. They were using shotgun primers in lieu of percussion caps back in the 1880s.

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MikeRowe
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #309783 - 02/01/18 04:13 AM

It is a wonderful book, from which much useful intelligence may be derived.

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Daryl_SModerator
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Posts: 17968
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: MikeRowe]
      #309797 - 02/01/18 06:28 AM

Terrific book.
I bought and read mine in 1973 through 1978). I've tried to follow Ned's teachings, to this day.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 52
Loc: Australia
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Daryl_S]
      #309806 - 02/01/18 11:17 AM

Another book to find! Have just ordered Peter Hawkers Advice to Young Sportsman from Abe Books. Will see if they have the book by Ned Roberts.

Cheers

Gordon

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 291
Loc: NW Montana
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Heelerau]
      #309849 - 03/01/18 04:53 AM

How about this group? I bet most shooters today would not believe this is possible with black powder and cast bullets.

[image]


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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #309862 - 03/01/18 09:02 AM

Another interesting tidbit, Mr Niedner was 76 years old when he shot that group.

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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #309867 - 03/01/18 11:34 AM

There are other such groups in Robert's book, Gentlemen, some even nicer, most shot at 40 rods, their normal 'rest' shooting range, which was 220yards during the 1880's and 90's.

Horace Warner, gun maker was known to carve his surname initial "W" with bullet holes, at that range, using a .50 cal. rifle of his manufacture, HUGE barrels 2" or more across the flats, shaded sights or scoped and guns weighting 50 pounds & more, shot with 'good' black powder and single cross or 2 strip paper patched bullets loaded through a huge false muzzle. Some shot homogeneous lead, others used bullets of dual hardness, joined in a swage.


It is a tremendous book, Lads, & is comprised of a lot of 'needed' knowledge, if you are interested in that sort of thing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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MikeRowe
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Daryl_S]
      #309871 - 03/01/18 12:13 PM

It's kind of like "The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle, Vol.2" by J.H. Walsh, 1883.

No sense in reinventing the wheel......


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sharps4590
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: MikeRowe]
      #309977 - 05/01/18 07:04 AM

Nothing to add but to agree with everything said. I believe I picked up my copy some 30 years ago.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 52
Loc: Australia
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: sharps4590]
      #310982 - 25/01/18 08:01 AM

I have been reading Ned Roberts book online for the last couple of weeks. I don't know why I have never heard of him before now, I will order a copy of his book today. Quite right about not reinventing the wheel. He is a marvellous bridge between the days of yore and the modern age. I am not personally interested in shooting those heavy slug rifles, my limit is my Volunteer .451 with Rigby style rifling. Utterly amazing the groups shot with .38s and .45 at 40 rods. Interesting to see what one has learned over the years and to find a lot of it here in this book. Wish I had bought it 40 years ago, wonders of the internet !!

cheers Heelerau

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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Daryl_SModerator
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Heelerau]
      #310988 - 25/01/18 10:08 AM

I foolishly traded my copy for Sixguns, by Keith some 35 years years ago. I still have access to my bother's copy, though.

I recall much of it and re-read it now and then - about every 10 years or so.

Ned was pretty much on top of the game.



Another good book of his, is the

Major Ned H. Roberts

and

The Schuetzen Rifle

1951

I have and purchased (1988) the Revised Edition by Gerald O. Kelver 1983.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Daryl_S]
      #311064 - 25/01/18 10:41 PM

Another good book I bought about a year ago and am still digesting, after reading it 3 times, is Dr. Fredrick Mann's "The Bullet's Flight". Geezo Pete...that man put in some work.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
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Loc: Australia
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: sharps4590]
      #311154 - 27/01/18 08:34 AM

Ordered the book and some other gear from TOW yesterday and its on its way down under .

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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ducmarc
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Heelerau]
      #311853 - 07/02/18 01:07 PM

30years ago it met a man at a gun range in west virginia. he taught me how to properly load a muzzle loader i was fighting with. he was about 80 and unbeatable at 50 yrds with his muzzleloader. he swore it was the timing in the lock . it had a swiss lock and a douglas barrel. he also had a couple of 222 bench rest rifles. that was a real treat to shoot. would reload the rounds as we shot with a handloader we would go to gun shows and pick up and mess with every look we could find. it kills me i can't remember his name

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Daryl_SModerator
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Posts: 17968
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Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #311858 - 07/02/18 01:28 PM

I once knew a man just like that, (I remember things back then very well) although Alex Bulhman did not shoot black powder. He was a B.R. (stool) shooter extraordinaire. Taught me much about shooting from the bench, bench technique, he called it. Some people have it & practice it every time they shoot, some just sit down and shoot, not really having a good technique. The way you sit, angles, height, foot position, all makes a difference when tens of thousandths of an inch means winning or losing, or even simply testing loads.

It's what I had for lunch today or supper last night, or what I was supposed to do today, or why am I standing in the doorway of the shop - just why DID I come down here - I can't remember.

I remember my best loads for the 6.5 Rem Mag. as well as the P.O.Ackley .22Varminter I used for shooting chucks back in Ontario, in 1968 & most all the loads I've used in favourite rifles ever since - but why am I in the shop?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Heelerau
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Reged: 31/01/17
Posts: 52
Loc: Australia
Re: The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312343 - 14/02/18 05:53 AM

The Ned Roberts book arrived yesterday, I will admit to cheating and reading an electronic version on line during breaks at work. Amazing fellow, I then find out a lot of my old mates back in the black powder club in South Australia had copies of the book 35 or more years ago and never told me about it !! I guess it gave them the competitive edge. Amazing groups, lots to help with your ordinary rifles to. My .451 will never group like these heavy bench guns, but gives me plenty of thought regarding tweeking to reduce my groups at 40 rods !!
I was lucky as a kid, a couple of the older blokes in my club took me under their wing and really helped me along. They are both dead now and I do miss them.

--------------------
Keep your horse well shod and your powder dry !


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