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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1141
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #244992 - 04/04/14 08:24 AM

Other than aesthetics & not being normal work practice, it is said that this rifling removal to steer the bullet may (I bet it does) unstabilize the projectile, you may not notice this on paper .

But if you were shooting large & dangerous game the projectile may wonder from a straight line of penetration, this is a very bad thing in dangerous game hunting !

This may be of no concern to you as this type of hunting has no interest to you ?

I think the 450NE 3 1/4 is the best in these rifles, for weight & power, 450/400 is good too with less recoil for the playing, but you can get a LOT of 45Cal projectile to play with & shoot sage squirrels.

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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NONAGONAGIN
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Reged: 03/04/14
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Sarg]
      #245007 - 04/04/14 11:50 AM

You might be right, but I'm from Missouri...you have to SHOW me...and that might be a bit of a problem seeing that there are a lot of reasons for the bullet to "wander off course" when penetrating a gnarly beasty...even the premium CNC brass bullets or other solids don't always go straight.

Not trying to be difficult...I haven't been to Africa but I've kill a lot of N/A game up to moose and a few difficult Mexican Brahma and Santa Gertrudis bulls. I don't count deer, antelope or elk...those are just for camp meat or Sunday diner.

Unless I hit the Lotto, a trip to Africa or Australia is just a dream. Sage rats are abundant around my place. I have several 45 and 50 cals including a 45-120, basically a 450NE 3 1/4". It gets loaded with 435, 450 and 500 gr bullets plus the 720 T-Rex now and then. The 50's add 100 gr per bullet. I just got a new mold for my 715 gr FNGC...#51-690B Accurate molds if you're interested. That's for my 50-70 SHUSH wannabe SSK 510 Whisper A-MAX. I use the sage rats to keep my eye...and the large cals to stay abreast of the recoil...it's easy to get soft by shooting the small cals all the time.

I just thought a 470NE would fit nicely between the 45 and 50 cals and I don't have a real double rifle, just a couple of po'boy double shotguns that do very well out to about 65-70 yds. My 50 Rigby wildcat surpasses the 500 NE by a couple hundred fs but a 500NE double rifle would be very nice also.

I looked at the 450/400 but 40 cal isn't to my taste.

After all the problems of regulating ALL brands of double rifles I've read, I'm beginning to cool off on buying one.

Thanks


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245350 - 10/04/14 01:51 AM

Quote:

I need answers...not repeats of what has been posted on all the double rifle forums I've been to about the "Sordid Sabatti Saga".




An unwanted answer is you get what you pay for. A lot of more reliable gunmakes of a somewhat higher price which do not have that stain, of a gunmaker making an incredibly foolish gunsmithing mistake, or if their agents did it, released unregulated rifles.

I would go for a Chapuis, Krieghoff, Merkel, Heym or Verney-Carron or other brand before a Sabatti.

I would consider a Sabatti ONLY after shooting it and see how it shoots.

Or expect the price to be low enough to have it re-regulated.

Unless I just wanted to take a blind chance at it and toss a coin.

It is always the cheapest is not the best choice in most transactions.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1396
Loc: QLd, Australia
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245520 - 11/04/14 09:46 PM

Quote:

My 50 Rigby wildcat surpasses the 500 NE by a couple hundred fs but a 500NE double rifle would be very nice also.




Hey i've got one of those

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTb3f2dG5Y


Sabatti are good for their target market - people who cant afford the higher priced doubles.

Some seem to shoot very well, others sub par. Arm chair expert here.. (I've no experience personally,i mean.)


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BB416
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Reged: 01/10/13
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Loc: QLD Australia
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #245528 - 11/04/14 10:33 PM

John
You are quite welcome to come and try mine(Sabatti) and buy it if it suits your needs:). A word of warning , from someone who is new to the 450/400 cartridge and relatively new to DR's, there are 2 sizes of projectiles 408 and 410 and YES it makes a difference if you use the smaller one in a rifle that has been regulated for the larger one. Tends to give you more than reasonable results with the correct size projectile. The only reason mine is for sale as I have had the good fortune to purchase a LEFT handed Merkel in the same calibre, so if anybody is interested in a Sabatti Big Five in 450/400 please let me know


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Big_Bore
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Reged: 12/01/14
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Loc: AL
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: FuzzBazz]
      #245667 - 14/04/14 08:36 AM

I just got back from shooting 2 elephants in Zim in June with a bolt gun in 500 Jeffery where I shot one at 15 yards. So I started looking for good deals on DR. I saw great prices on these Sabatti rifles and read all about the problems. Cabelas had a 500 NE cheap so I called them and I asked if it had a 24" barrel and if it was one where they had ground the muzzle. The sales rep said it had not been ground and the rifling was good. I asked about their return policy and he said we only guarantee it goes bang. I took a shot and ordered the gun.

The good part is the gun was very nicely finished and balanced. It had a test target with final tuning written on it with 2 holes 2" centered in the middle of the target. So this is looking good.

Now the bad, Cabelas lied to me the muzzle was ground on booth barrels substancaily. I have a private range on my property so fired from the bench at a 50 yard target with the Hornady regulation ammo. The left barrel printed nice groups 5 to 6" to the left and the right barrel 5 to 6" to the right. Elevation was spot on but a 10 to 12" spread between the right and left barrels. That certainly makes a DG rifle un usable. So the gun is basically a wall hanger.

I called Cabelas to see what they would do for me. They simply said there was no guaranty on the accuracy and they could not help me. They refused to replace, repair or refund the gun.

Since they had lied to me about the condition and I paid by credit card, it would have been simple enough to do a charge back. But I really wanted this gun to work out. So I have worked with the imported before EAA and they have always been great with me. When I called EAA and explained the problem she was very pleasant and said I should speak to their head gunsmith. But he was at the shot show so I would need to call back next week. No problem. So I call back and get the head gunsmith, well I guess he had been tiered of taking a beating over these guns and at first was very defensive. Once I was able to convince him that I was not blaming him or EAA and I just wanted the gun fixed, he was very nice. I asked if they repair them there or did they go back to Italy. He said they only do minor repairs there and if the rifle needed to be reregulated they would have to ship it back to Italy and it could take 6 months to get the gun back. I asked how they would fix it, I did not want them just to hack off the barrels as some other had wrote about. He assured me that first I would need to send the rifle to him to test fire and if was as I said it would go back to the Factory and have new barrels installed and when they returned it to him, he would personally test fire it before sending it back to me.

So since the time I shipped it to them, they have confirmed it was going back to Italy and I am know waiting for it to be returned. I had questioned EAA thoroughly and have delt with them in the pass. They have assured me that the rifle will be re regulated with new barrels and all of the guns they have been getting back like this from the factory are now being done properly. They also said the repair time is long because the wait until they have enough guns to ship in a batch since all the paper work is the same for one gun as it is for multiple guns. I believe they will live up their word and will make another post when the rifle comes back. But I am extreamly disappointed in Calbelas for lying to me about the gun and not standing behind the products they sell. I truly believe that Cabelas knew this was a bad rifle as the muzzle grinding was very obvious and they were so ridge on not helping me resolve the problem. Beware of Cabelas. I'll let every one know how well EAA and Sabatti do when I get the rifle back.


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xrayoneone
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Reged: 27/12/13
Posts: 3
Loc: United States
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Big_Bore]
      #250331 - 12/07/14 10:50 AM

My problems and the solution http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post244402

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BwanaBob
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Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 143
Loc: Blackheath, NSW, Australia
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #252602 - 24/08/14 08:28 PM

While I realise that I am a bit of a 'late comer' to this discussion, I just had to add my 2 cents worth. Some of what follows is from my answer to a similar thread on another forum and I have just cut and paste my comments here, and modified it slightly, rather than regurgitate the same info.

I have a Sabatti Model 92 in .450 NE that I purchased from Cabelas, in Texas, and imported into Australia. The muzzles of my rifle are perfect and haven't had the grinding treatment that some owners have described.

With factory Hornady ammo, this gun will print both barrels into about 1.5" @ 50 yards. Some time back, I shot a charging animal match with this rifle. Charging animal is 2 shots on a 50metre slow fire pistol target at 75yds, 2 shots at 50yds and 2 shots at 25yds with a time limit of 35 seconds, from the standing position. The 75yd target had right and left impacts 2" apart and just above the centre of the target. At 50yrds the impacts were about 5" apart, straddling the centre of the target (and this was my poor shooting and not the rifle's fault) and at 25yds both right and left printed so close together that the two holes were really just one elongated hole and just marginally below the centre.

So, who says Sabatti doubles don't shoot?! I have owned a number of doubles, over the years, and the only double I have owned that shot that well was a Chapuis Brousse in .470 which cost me about three times the price of the Sabatti. I would still like to buy a high-grade double but, for the time being, the Sabatti will be in my gunsafe for a long time to come and the money that I would have spent on a high grade gun will pay for more hunting.

It may be that buying a Sabatti is a bit of a lottery, at least that is what the negative reports would indicate. However, I know of two (2) other Sabatti .450NE rifles, here in Oz, and both of their owners have had similar results to me and are very happy with their Sabattis.

I am now in the market for a Sabatti in 9.3x74R as a companion for my .450NE.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: BwanaBob]
      #252646 - 25/08/14 08:59 PM

Bob,

No problem in opening up any old thread to add to it.

It is good to hear of the good and successful ones, as well as the warnings of the problem ones.

If Sabatti has fixed the problems of some previous guns for all NEW ones, it will take a long time for their reputation to improve or recover.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Big_Bore
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Reged: 12/01/14
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Loc: AL
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #252778 - 27/08/14 01:33 PM

Got my Sabatti 500 NE back from EAA after they sent the barrels back to Italy to be replaced. It took 6 months turn around time so I was pleased, I had expected a years wait. The good news is they did a excellent job replacing the barrels. They look better then new. For some reason they regulated my replacement with Norma ammunition, at least that is what they wrote on the test target. I have fired about a 100 rounds of Hornady ammo thru it since it came back and it shoots well with in acceptable limits at 50 yards about a 3" horizontal spread. Not the best but certainly as good as I can shoot off hand. The fit and bluing was excellent. How every they did not fix one of the problems I had with the safety some times popping on after the first shot. EAA was kind enough to send a call tag and pay the shipping back to them to fix the safety. I have dealt with EAA before and they always took very good care of me. Although I knew of the potential problems with some of these guns and Cabelas lied to me about the muzzle being ground and refused to help me, EAA really came thru for me. So I ended up with quite a deal since Cabelas had deeply discounted this gun when they sold it to me, the extra wait was well worth it. I wish I could get another one in .450.

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bigdog
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: Big_Bore]
      #256418 - 08/11/14 04:45 PM

Glad EAA helped you out. I guess I got lucky, I have owned a 470 and a 500 Sabatti for several years and both shoot well. I am happy to have both of mine. Sorry to hear of all the problems that most guys have had with these rifles.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1333
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: nitro450exp]
      #256447 - 09/11/14 09:25 AM

Quote:

Hello,

I am late to the party here but was the first to publish my findings over on AR.
I had a 500NE EJ serial # CAB00278.
I bought it new at Cabelas.
When I purchased it I did not study the muzzle crowns in depth, as it was a new gun.

The regulation target showed two shots side by side about 0.8" apart and the words "Final Tuning"
No other holes on the paper.

I bought 2 boxes of the regulation load, Hornady DGX 570 gr.

I shot it in the winter with snow on the ground at 28 Degrees at 29 and 62 yards, two shooters.
Best it would do was 4 inches spread most were 6".
Next was in january in Texas, 60 degrees.
Another 20 rounds and this time several shooters, 8" spread at 45 yds.
Right and left barrels had excellent composite groups, one ragged hole and a cloverleaf.
Exactly 4" right and left of the dot perfect height.

Upon further study the muzzles were found to be ground at 3 and 9 Oclock.
Cabelas was excellent and offered a replacement, upon opening this new gun it was also ground on both barrels this time towards the rib, exact oposite of the first (Serial CAB 00436 )
The target showed many holes and a circle around 2 shots with the words "Final Tuning" there was about 1" of verticle stringing on this target.
I opted for a miss and a full refund.


I feel that disclosure of the methods used up front would have made a difference, however the gun has to shoot and the original target and gun did not perform as advertised.
I can only speculate that the regulation method, is particularly sensative,to the natural production variation of velocity in the Hornady ammo.

I had pictures of the crowns but after the whole affair I deleted them and moved on.

Thanks
Nitro




Gentlemen I was present at Nitro's shooting of that Sabatti in Texas and it was exactly as he said. I shot that rifle as well, and it did not regulate at all in my opinion, and Nitro was smart in getting a full refund on that rifle. Many others have done the same, but in all fairness a few have gotten rifles that shoot properly but I consider that just luck. I would not buy a Sabatti double rifle, and I've owned two Merkels for several years without a problem.
..............................................

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Powertrip
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Reged: 06/01/09
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Loc: Illinois, USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #282163 - 10/05/16 04:21 PM

I do not have anything to contribute, not having one of these rifles...

But I just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed because the information being shared and knowing that there are people in the states who can help me through problems if I acquire one will be a big factor on if I ever pull the trigger.


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gryphon
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #282164 - 10/05/16 05:14 PM

Quote:



I would go for a Chapuis, Krieghoff, Merkel, Heym or Verney-Carron or other brand before a Sabatti.






Shame on you JH...wot? no Holland and Holland?
If we dare dream of the lotto win of wins,wouldn't we include the H+H too..ha ha.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: gryphon]
      #282168 - 10/05/16 07:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I would go for a Chapuis, Krieghoff, Merkel, Heym or Verney-Carron or other brand before a Sabatti.






Shame on you JH...wot? no Holland and Holland?
If we dare dream of the lotto win of wins,wouldn't we include the H+H too..ha ha.




With a little thing such as unlimited wealth all sorts of new doors could open.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Powertrip
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Illinois, USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: NitroX]
      #282198 - 11/05/16 04:30 AM

Strangely enough, my Grail rifle would NOT be an H&H. Funny how different things can motivate us, but I would want an exact build of the Searcy rifle that was carried by the BGH in Lost World. Also, Grail hunt would be something similar, LoL!

Mammoth and Smilodon hunt? Yes please! (sorry for the thread derail!)


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sdesan4378
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Reged: 24/01/18
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Loc: Connecticut, USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #311232 - 28/01/18 02:15 PM

The rifle is very nice when I can get it assembled.

Anyone have issues with putting the rifle together? I have the oddest problem, the forend refuses to line up properly with the reciever. As such it just doesn't go together. I have a heck of time getting it to go together. I haven't used the rifle for a couple of years and now I just can't remember how I figured it out last time. I have resorted to a rubber mallet without success. Any suggestions. Other then that when I get the rifle together it is fantastic.

I have found that loading ammo with it with half the powder makes it easier for practice.


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 201
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets [Re: sdesan4378]
      #311235 - 28/01/18 03:29 PM

Just an off the wall guess......are the strikers (the hammers) down, as in both sides uncocked, before you try to assemble the rifle.
If so, you are working the forend against the cocking levers when trying to attach the forened.

Before you try to attach the barrels use the forend to “cock” action (hold it against the frame knuckle just as if it were being broken open after a shot) only the barrels arent attached yet.
This eliminates the mainspring tension.

Just maybe is what you are working against?
My 2˘
- Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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