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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311141 - 27/01/18 05:57 AM

49NORTH - I would phone trackofthewolf and ask if they can send brass to you.
There is no problem this side, just from the State's side.

We order all sorts of stuff from track, including CF rifle barrels, etc and get away with it due to them being a muzzleloading supplies outfit. I would try them.

If they can ship the brass, you are home-free. You will have to pay sales tax on the amount of the invoice, along with standard $5.00 custom's tax. Might be $10.00 now.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/139/11/SHOT-SHELL-10-2-78

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311145 - 27/01/18 06:24 AM

Quote:

Tinker, why not 2 lubed fiber wads? does Colum height matter?

Once you have cases that are suitable for loading, get a realistic powder charge in there and see how much room you have.
I haven't run into a case where there's room to waste with a fiber wad. The felt holds necessary black powder lube, and under pressure of burning powder the felt wad helps as a gas seal.

Again I typically run a ring or donut shaped felt wad under the ball. All wadding fully impregnated with black powder lube.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5269
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: tinker]
#311190 - 28/01/18 01:38 AM

My goodness! I've never seen such a high front sight on a bore rifle. Wonder what that is all about? What does the rear sight look like?

Daryl, there's just a little fly in the ointment as to getting the 10b cases to Canada. Notice the top right corner of the Track of Wolf webpage:

"Special Restrictions Apply. Not available for export outside the U.S.A."

Don't you suppose they mean what they say?

BTW, those are the cases I am using with my 10b Paradox.

I'm thinking somebody has reamed most of the rifling out of these barrels. Does it look that thin all the way through?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: CptCurl]
#311193 - 28/01/18 04:30 AM

I missed that notation, Curly. One can (should) always phone them and find out.
I was able to buy brass from Buffalo Arms for my 16 bore, some time back, might have been before the big permit kerfuffle put on during the Obama administration.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#311201 - 28/01/18 06:26 AM

Well you could always have someone in the us put them in a box and mail them. Unless the canadian government opens your mail.

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MikeRowe
.333 member

Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: Wayne59]
#311218 - 28/01/18 11:00 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb, here. I've looked at the pictures on this forum, and at the"other" forum. From what I can see without examining the gun, it appears to be a shotgun that someone has rifled later on in it's life. But I could be wrong, having not seen it in person.
While this may not cause any problems, and it may shoot just fine, I would stay on the light side with loads for a start.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: MikeRowe]
#311223 - 28/01/18 11:30 AM

Mike look closely at the muzzles.
I think I'm seeing polygonal bore there.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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MikeRowe
.333 member

Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: tinker]
#311225 - 28/01/18 11:37 AM

It looks like shallow, narrow grooves to me, and it appears the front sight ramp is soldered on to a shotgun rib, and not in the middle, either. I've not seen a double rifle done like that before.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: MikeRowe]
#311261 - 29/01/18 05:56 AM

"Mr Greener said this was defiantly one of their choke bore rifles, proof marks are from 1875-1887, he considers this to be a heavy (9 1/2 lbs) 10 bore made for round ball and brass cases."

In light of this, I maintain the chokes, which are usually very tight (deep rifling) compared to the bore, were almost bored out completely, - but - the muzzles appear to be too thin at the bottom of the grooves - that I do not understand.

The front sight block does look odd at well.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#311263 - 29/01/18 08:24 AM

Well gents I guess its time to get at it, hopefully by next weekend, I will have some good things to report back with, I'm gonna loader up and strap it down and see what happens.

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311325 - 30/01/18 06:34 AM

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: Wayne59]
#311326 - 30/01/18 06:44 AM

Quote:

Well you could always have someone in the us put them in a box and mail them. Unless the Canadian government opens your mail.

This worked for a friend of mine, a year or so, ago.

As long as you pay them the $5.00 or $10.00 Customs fee and submit the Sales Tax when picking up the parcel at the post office, Customs here does not care about brass, triggers or scopes, according to a local Custom's "Supervisor".

The problem is when going out of the US, since 2008 or so - something about the UN agreement.

Better get them before Trudeau does something(else)stupid.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5269
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#311531 - 02/02/18 11:05 PM

Yeah, we're afraid those 10b cases will go to the Taliban to become WMDs.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: CptCurl]
#311536 - 03/02/18 03:01 AM

Someone was. My understanding it was the Obama Admin and the UN.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#311815 - 07/02/18 04:08 AM

Not my best day,should have stayed home.
-15 c north wind blowing perfect day to go to the range as probably nobody else there.
Primer issues came back to haunt me, not one would fire, all that happened was they were struck and pushed into the cases. I could not get any to fire from either barrel,then the worst happened..... the stock broke at the wrist, clearly there is a old repair.

I think given the circumstances, before I spend anymore money I am going to try and fit 209 primers to my cases and Mickey the stock and proof this thing to see if it is worth any more effort and money.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311817 - 07/02/18 04:18 AM

Ouch!

On the issue of primers, were you running pistol or rifle primers?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311818 - 07/02/18 04:20 AM

So sad to see this.
Hope you can repair it.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#311821 - 07/02/18 06:00 AM

Primers were small pistol magnum and small rifle. I did get both to fire in a empty case when I did a test, I also used a drop of glue on the side of the primer to help hold them.

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311823 - 07/02/18 06:19 AM

Here is a comparison between an original primer and a 209.

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#311824 - 07/02/18 07:10 AM

Keep going 49!
We're all following how this is panning out, just a step backward yesterday that's all.
If you modified the cases, would you use modern large rifle primers or would it be better to go to a 209 series type primer; using BP & quite a lot of it?

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 93x64mm]
#311826 - 07/02/18 07:24 AM

Quote:

If you modified the cases, would you use modern large rifle primers or would it be better to go to a 209 series type primer; using BP & quite a lot of it?

Real black powder is very easy to ignite.
If the primer pocket wasn't too deep to use rifle primers, that would be my first choice - actually I'd likely stand at the lathe and make spacers for the existing pockets before I'd bore them open.

On going forward, that wrist repair will need to be very sound, as the rifle's regulation relies upon a solid stock.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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49NORTH
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/17
Posts: 21
Loc: British Columbia Canada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: tinker]
#312708 - 20/02/18 04:08 AM

Just about ready for another test. Hose clamped the stock together it should be ok for what I need to do. I have been trying to fit 209 primers and have finally got it (I think). When I drilled out the original pocket it doesn't leave a lot on metal to hold the primer and the cases are very thin on the base so when I dry fired them the back of the case would concave in substantially and the primer would fall out when the case was removed.
So what I did is to add a 3/16 thick cork base wad to the case to give it a bit of strength, this should keep it from collapsing. My only concern is that this might raise internal pressure. I do remember reading an article about this very thing years ago bit I cannot remember the outcome.
If anyone knows please chime in, otherwise once the weather here gets a bit better I will be out to test fire again.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: 49NORTH]
#312724 - 20/02/18 08:38 AM

I think you need new brass and a "properly" repaired stock.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3522
Loc: Colorado

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: DarylS]
#312732 - 20/02/18 02:16 PM

Quote:

I think you need new brass and a "properly" repaired stock.

I agree...
This all sounds like a disaster in the making.
If this is a genuine bore rifle, and you value your health, you should consider a proper repair and starting with sound brass and loads.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Greener Bore Rifle [Re: Huvius]
#312751 - 21/02/18 01:01 AM

Do not attempt to fire that brass. The risk of case head failure is high.
Also.
Do not attempt to run that rifle with a hose clamp repair to the stock.
It will not shoot to regulation with a broken stock, or any stock that is not completely sound.

Quote:

This post shows a photo of the rifle.
The wrist shows a line, although out of focus, right at the place where later in the thread you show the stock broken.

It appears that the repair was likely obvious.

In this thread from elsewhere in year 2012 you show photos of the rifle, without a broken wrist, and with no signs of a repair. You also state that the barrels are fully rifled.

When were those barrels bored from 'fully rifled' to the current state of what appears to be a rifled-choke-bored ball/shot configuration?
Who did that work?
Was the rifle re-proofed?

Who did the previous repair to that stock?

Something isn't right here.

Step back.
Seriously reconsider the path that you're following and think on a fresh new direction.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by tinker (21/02/18 03:10 AM)

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