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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

500 EXP for Cape Buffalo?
#304853 - 06/09/17 02:41 AM

I'll keep it simple.

Thoughts on using the 500 Express (577/500 No. 2 BPE) in a NfB loading on Cape Buffalo?

Does not some one here us this cartridge on the buffalo and feral cattle in Australia? Is the a comparison to be made between these animals and the Cape Buffalo?

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DD, Ret.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: DoubleD]
#304854 - 06/09/17 03:34 AM

In the late 1800's, the .577 (BP)Express were very well spoken off for all African game. Re-prints of letters in W.W. Greener's 9th Edition of The Gun and it's Development.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: DarylS]
#304859 - 06/09/17 04:19 AM

I would say its possible if you have something like 404 or 458 lott behind

good shot placement on undisturbed buffalo with a quality bullet

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: lancaster]
#304860 - 06/09/17 04:28 AM

I have an artikel or two of hunters who use .500bpe on cape buffalo in modern time. So yes it can still be done as for 120 years ago. All hunters used a solid lead bullet.

Edited by rigbymauser (06/09/17 04:33 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: rigbymauser]
#304868 - 06/09/17 07:27 AM

SRY - my mistake, not seeing the 500 after the .577.

.500 BPE top load listed for the .500 BP is a 505gr. bullet at

1,738fps - was driven by 164gr. powder for 3,390fpe.

Should be easy to match that or some what exceed it with smokeless.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: DarylS]
#304891 - 07/09/17 12:17 AM

I think this is an oh duh moment for me.

I was trying to remember who it was that was using the 577/500 No. 2 BPE with NfB load on buffalo and wild cattle, while using the Varget load that Marrakai developed (oh duh here) for Buffalo and cattle.

Man I am telling you this getting old thing is not for the feeble.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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50Calshtr
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Reged: 01/11/05
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Loc: Southeast Georgia

Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: DoubleD]
#310623 - 19/01/18 03:27 AM

Wasn't there an article in Black powder Cartridge Rifle a couple of years ago about this? I think the author used a 500 Exp rather than the 500#2.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Loc: Colorado

Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: 50Calshtr]
#310624 - 19/01/18 03:55 AM

Ross Seyfried took a very nice Cape Buffalo a few years ago with his 461 Gibbs with no issues.
Of course the 461 may have a higher SD than the 500 but I wouldn’t think penetration with a hard lead 1/2” bullet would be lacking.
I don’t recall if he even had a PH to back him on that hunt.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: Huvius]
#310627 - 19/01/18 05:02 AM

Back in 1978, I was planning a trip to Africa with a friend. During a phone conversation, Elmer Keith told me a hardened 560gr. Lyman cast WW bullet from my .458 2" at 1,960fps would do just fine, for elephant, rhino and cape buffalo.

After discussion of my loads, he said the one using 400gr. Barnes Spitzers at 2,150fps would work fine for all plains game including Eland with the .049" jackets which were available back then. He also said the .032" 400gr. jacket would likely do for the cats.

Unfortunately, that trip didn't materialize.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: 500 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: DarylS]
#310635 - 19/01/18 06:03 AM

Quote:

Back in 1978, I was planning a trip to Africa with a friend. During a phone conversation, Elmer Keith told me a hardened 560gr. Lyman cast WW bullet from my .458 2" at 1,960fps would do just fine, for elephant, rhino and cape buffalo.

After discussion of my loads, he said the one using 400gr. Barnes Spitzers at 2,150fps would work fine for all plains game including Eland with the .049" jackets which were available back then. He also said the .032" 400gr. jacket would likely do for the cats.

Unfortunately, that trip didn't materialize.

I have seen a lot of game harvested in Africa..seems a "good bullet" in the 2000fps to 2300fps is hell on wheels to animal it is fired into...

For plains game I have personally used anything from 308 to 300RUM to 375H&H to 416Rem...again, with the right bullet for that caliber, they all seemed to work very well...

For buffalo, IMHO, bigger is better...416 has a much more dramatic effect than the 375 from my experiences...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: 500 No2 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: Ripp]
#310648 - 19/01/18 11:18 AM

Presuming you would be talking about using a double rifle in this caliber? The original regulation will likely dictate what load you will be able to use, below would probably be close in an original BPE double.

The .577/.500 No2 BPE was typically loaded either:
130grains black and 340grain copper tube bullet at ~1850’/sec
130grains black and 380drain solid lead bullet at ~1775’/sec

The later Nitro for Black was:
53grains Cordite and 440metal base (similar to a gas check) solid or copper tube lead bullet at 1675’/sec
That NfB load ginned up ~2743 ft.lb.

The .577/.500 No2 was said to be fairly popular in India for Tiger and other soft skin game.

The larger .577/.500 Magnum 3 1/8” BPE managed considerably better performance for the day.
164grains black......440 to 480grain bullets at ~1800+ FPS

Your mileage may vary.....
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Claydog
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Re: 500 No2 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: 3DogMike]
#310649 - 19/01/18 11:32 AM

I guided a guy who used a 500 BPE on water buffalo here. The hunter did not wish to shoot unless we were within 30 yards and we got to 27 from memory. This particular animal took a few to put down so it is like any other rifle in that you need to do your part. Penetration seemed good enough to do the job though I cannot recall what load he used. The first shot damaged the animal badly and he pulled up fairly quickly where we finished him. I would say it can do the job but there is likely not a great margin of error. This hunter was very fussy about his loads and he tested extensively before he came out so I would say his loads were as good as they could be. We had to pass on a few animals that we could just not close in to 30 on so going by only this one experience you may need to be prepared to pass on a few till the right situation comes along. I can probably ask him for some load information if you like. This particular hunt was exactly like guiding a bowhunter. I was constantly ranging and looking for the perfect situation. This is just my experience in this one situation so take from it what you will.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 500 No2 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: Claydog]
#310705 - 20/01/18 06:37 PM

Nice buffalo.

Would be interested in hearing what shots he made on the buffalo and where placed? I do understand a number of shots can be required.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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264
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Reged: 15/02/11
Posts: 599
Loc: NT Australia

Re: 500 No2 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: NitroX]
#310767 - 21/01/18 01:16 PM

Claydog, was the rifle a Thomas Blissett? Cheers Mick

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Claydog
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Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...

Re: 500 No2 EXP for Cape Buffalo? [Re: 264]
#310787 - 21/01/18 11:29 PM

Mick from memory it was a Charles Lancaster. Lovely old hammer gun with some nice engraving. John the first shot was a decent shoulder shot which visably caused the bull some issues. The second was on the run as it headed towards the river. It pulled up and was shot again in the chest and another as it ran again. It pulled up again quite sick and was put down with another. I don’t think the running shots were good hits. In the photo you can see a hole through its left ear. It was a nice bull with very long thin points. 97 I think. We tried to find the projectiles but had quite some trouble. We did carry a piece of threaded rod with which we traced the main bullet paths and penetration was quite good but I don’t recall exactly how deep they went.

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