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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland
Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed
      #310728 - 20/01/18 09:24 PM

Gentlemen,

Had a look at this rifle a few days ago - it is even nicer in the flesh than in the pictures. Would be a lovely rifle for a quiet stalk after a buck in fine weather. I would buy it if I had space on the licence, but unfortunately in Scotland 303's don't have enough velocity to be "deer legal".

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/enf...180116094451128

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: HeymSR20]
      #310742 - 21/01/18 04:55 AM

"Deer legal"? Not enough? I assume that means it's not powerful enough?

I am amazed.

At times I think we have gotten all the idiots off the streets and elected them to public office in the USA, but I see there are some left for the Scots to elect too.

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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: szihn]
      #310746 - 21/01/18 05:38 AM

In Scotland a Rifle has to produce a min velocity of 2450 FPS.

So lots of the old mannlichers, 303s etc are not Deer legal so difficult to licence - we need good reason for each and every rifle we possess. And the police look at what is available in factory loads. Can’t get a 470!nitro conditioned for deer either!

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: HeymSR20]
      #310747 - 21/01/18 06:40 AM

Beautiful rifle!! If it was here in the US it would sell in a heartbeat.

303 not enough gun for deer? All deer? I know you have red deer which are basically elk size, correct? .303 should still be enough. What kind of big godzilla-type other deer you got over there?

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2446
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: szihn]
      #310751 - 21/01/18 08:21 AM

Quote:



At times I think we have gotten all the idiots off the streets and elected them to public office in the USA, but I see there are some left for the Scots to elect too.



Don't worry, we have plenty as well.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4204
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #310755 - 21/01/18 09:42 AM

HeymSR20
the .303 with a 150gn pill will get over 2500fps with 42gn AR2208 (Varget).
If that can't do it nothing will!
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/rifle.asp?Calibre=303+British
Don't let this one go mate!!!

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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: 93x64mm]
      #310820 - 22/01/18 10:10 PM

Quote:

HeymSR20
the .303 with a 150gn pill will get over 2500fps with 42gn AR2208 (Varget).
If that can't do it nothing will!
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/rifle.asp?Calibre=303+British
Don't let this one go mate!!!



Of you course you can reload it to get well above 2450 fps. And you can do the same with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher. But our Firearms Enquiry Officers have a standard list of calibres that are and are not deer legal. This is based on the standard factory ammunition. They do not understand intricacies of home loading, nor for that matter the Home Guidance on Firearms Licencing. To own such a rifle I need to show good reason. I cannot demonstrate good need for deer stalking as it is not a deer legal calibre in Scotland. Besides I already have a 243, 7x65R and a 7x57 all for deer stalking and all of which do what a 303 can do and would struggle to show need for an additional stalking rifle. I could use it for target shooting, but I don't see a lot of point paper punching and am not a member of a target shooting club.

So whilst I would love to have a Lee Speed, and a Mannlicher Schouener and ................. the reality is I pretty much have what I need and in Scotland we really are pretty unable to have lots of nice rifles just because we like them.

I know the person selling this rifle well and he is very happy to send it overseas if required hence the reason for putting info of its availability on here where there are others who are able to both appreciate and own such beautiful pieces of workmanship.

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simonsaorsa
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/06
Posts: 172
Loc: UK
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: HeymSR20]
      #311751 - 06/02/18 05:12 AM

Am a little surprised. My copy of that little manual ( March 1999) gives the 303 a green light in both 150 and 180 grain loadings.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: simonsaorsa]
      #311762 - 06/02/18 08:09 AM

That is most unnerving, HeymSR20. I had always thought and still do, that firearms ownership and the # of guns needed could greatly be simplified by math.

Did you know that there is actually a mathematical formula for determining the optimum number of guns you should own? Well, there is, and here it is:

X = N+1, where X = the optimum number of guns, and N = the number of guns you currently own.

No need to thank me. I offer this as a public service.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2446
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: DarylS]
      #311764 - 06/02/18 08:29 AM

That formula certainly makes good sense.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #311781 - 06/02/18 11:57 AM

I like and subscribe to your math Daryl. I think I will apply it again in the near future.

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5063
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: Levallois]
      #311790 - 06/02/18 06:10 PM

Quote:

Beautiful rifle!! If it was here in the US it would sell in a heartbeat.

303 not enough gun for deer? All deer? I know you have red deer which are basically elk size, correct? .303 should still be enough. What kind of big godzilla-type other deer you got over there?



Red deer are a bit smaller than Elk. Sambar are about Elk size, well they are Indian Elk. the 303 has taken plenty of Sambar.

That is a lovely rifle and would certainly make a great stalking rifle.

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5063
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Watson Bros of London - Lee Speed [Re: HeymSR20]
      #311791 - 06/02/18 06:12 PM

Quote:

In Scotland a Rifle has to produce a min velocity of 2450 FPS.

So lots of the old mannlichers, 303s etc are not Deer legal so difficult to licence - we need good reason for each and every rifle we possess. And the police look at what is available in factory loads. Can’t get a 470!nitro conditioned for deer either!



Then a 416 Remington and Rigby would not be legal. Talk about retards making rules.

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