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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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vandeusenps
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Loc: Illinois
Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose!
      #310583 - 18/01/18 07:44 AM

Greetings all...I’ve decided I “need” a double rifle to complete the heavy side of my gun collection. While I save up over the next year to purchase one, I have a few questions for those of you with experience with the .577 and .500 calibers. Originally, I settled on an 11 pound 500. About the same calculated recoil as a .470. However, same with many others it seems, the .577 has caught my interest.

I’ve already decided that Verney-Carron will be building my next rifle (the bone charcoal case colors and ability to build to my specs won me over), and if I order a .577, it will weigh around 14 lbs. That equates to about 20% more recoil than a 500. I understand this amount of recoil will be a lot to take on at first, but I’m willing to work at it. My experience with heavy rifles maxes out at a fully loaded 416 Remington, which was a lot for me at first but eventually through practice I got used to the rifle and could shoot it well, taking an excellent eland bull with it on my last trip to the RSA.

All this being said, anyone with experience please chime in. Should I leave this caliber to the professionals in Africa, or can this caliber be mastered with lots of practice?

Primary reasons for spending the extra money on the caliber is because I think it is historically “cool”, and I reload so ammo cost is less of a concern.

With either caliber, I plan on hunting Buff, elephant, and hippo.

Thanks in advance for your opinions!


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Claydog
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310585 - 18/01/18 08:54 AM

Welcome to the forum. I have never owned a double myself but have a bit of experience with them and seeing others use them. I always believed for practical hunting the 500 is the upper limit for most people. I have found few people actually handle the big guns well. Also if you are going to hunt elephant and buffalo you may need to carry for a good while and the extra weight will be taxing. But really it comes down to what you are into. For me it would be the 500 all day.

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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Claydog]
      #310588 - 18/01/18 09:46 AM

Thanks for your input clay, I think you’re right, the 500 would be the most practical. The extra weight wouldn’t bother me...I wish someone local had a .577 to shoot...can’t really find those at the local gun range!

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DarylS
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310589 - 18/01/18 11:57 AM

A decent .470 Nitro might be the easiest to find, unless you are looking for an old English gun only.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rell
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: DarylS]
      #310591 - 18/01/18 12:08 PM

So, I am 6.5, 240lbs and work out religiously.

I had a 577 at 13 lbs and it beat the snot out of me.

I had a 500 at 11lbs and I shot it like crap.

I have a 450-400 3” and it is just right at a little less then 10 lbs.

I love the idea of the big boys but candidly I just shoot them like crap. I would work hard and find a 500 and / or a 577 to test drive before you put the money down.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Rell]
      #310592 - 18/01/18 12:14 PM

Rell,

Thanks a lot for your input! Were the 577 or 500 appropriately fitted for you?


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3DogMike
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310597 - 18/01/18 01:58 PM

Just my experience and opinion here:
“....an 11lb .500. About the same calculated recoil as a.470....” same weight rifle? The .500 is a NOTICEABLE step up in recoil. Dont be fooled by “calculations” you need to try them for real.

I have shot many of the big calibers in double rifles (4bore was a T. Bland single shot); various .400’s, .450, .458, .470, .500, .577 (both 90-650grain and 100-750 grain), 12bore, 8bore, 4bore.
The 100-.577 will make a believer out of you even in a 14lb rifle.
And don’t scoff at how freakin heavy a 14lb rifle can get in 100°F heat by the end of the day. Even in the heyday the guys that wrote about that stuff talked about .577’s and .600’s being exhausting to carry.

9 1/2-10lb .400, 10-10 1/2lb 450 or 11lb .470 is a nice sweet spot, my 2¢ worth.

Just sayin,
- Mike


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crshelton
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: 3DogMike]
      #310598 - 18/01/18 03:07 PM

Rell and 3 dog Mike have made the same point and it is a good one.

Why carry more weight than needed to accomplish your goal?

On the other hand, if you want to hire a gun bearer to tote a cannon, go for it!

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/


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500Boswell
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: crshelton]
      #310603 - 18/01/18 04:33 PM

If you are going to Africa on a buff ,ele ,hippo hunt I would choose the 577 ,nothing more memorable than looking back on a African hunt you did with a 577 ! a 500 might be a better all rounder if you are going to use it a lot , I had a Ruger N01 in 585 Hubel and it weighed about 12 pounds loaded to 577 velocity, which imo is enough anyway ,it booted, but was bearable ,first buffalo I shot I never felt the recoil ,next day shot another and ''felt it'' ,but that's part of the fun and experience !plus anything hit in the right place with a 577 has ''had it'',in Africa there will always be someone willing to help out ,and carry it for you if need be ,plus there is the mystique of guns like the 577 ,id say go for it ....................

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Rockdoc
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: 500Boswell]
      #310605 - 18/01/18 05:51 PM

I had a 10lb 10oz 500 double and it was very nice to shoot. It fit me well.

My 500/450 3 1/4” is 10lb 8oz and very nice to shoot too.

Good luck.


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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Rockdoc]
      #310613 - 18/01/18 10:39 PM

Thanks Rockdoc and 500Bos for your input! Based on other recommendations here, I am thinking about starting with a smaller caliber first, possibly a 450, then once I master it’s use, possibly stepping up to a larger one! It’ll take at least two trips to Africa for all the animals I’d like to take, so it may all work out in the end.

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Rell
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310616 - 18/01/18 11:20 PM

Both the 500 and 577 where vintage and neither was perfectly fitted. Just longer pads.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Ahmed577
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Rell]
      #310620 - 19/01/18 01:31 AM

Have modern 500 and 577 guns. As a working tool the 500 can become a very versatile gun. The 577 is a specialist tool. I would add that a 500 compared to a 600 would evoke a different thought pattern. I have 2 600s and just ordered a third. Another 577 did not win me over.

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3DogMike
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310625 - 19/01/18 04:49 AM

Quote:

Thanks Rockdoc and 500Bos for your input! Based on other recommendations here, I am thinking about starting with a smaller caliber first, possibly a 450, then once I master it’s use, possibly stepping up to a larger one! .........



Why not aquire a Ruger No1 in .458 and add a pound of weight and a decent recoil pad to the buttstock (IMO they are overall barrel heavy), then shoot it enough to make a decision. Lots of them for sale, often with “a box of 19” for sale with them. If you are unsure, or just using it as a training aid for a bigger caliber, it is lots less $$$ than popping for a .450 double.
......as mentioned above, there is simply something about a .577......a touchstone to the storied days of Africa.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: 3DogMike]
      #310629 - 19/01/18 05:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks Rockdoc and 500Bos for your input! Based on other recommendations here, I am thinking about starting with a smaller caliber first, possibly a 450, then once I master it’s use, possibly stepping up to a larger one! .........



Why not aquire a Ruger No1 in .458 and add a pound of weight and a decent recoil pad to the buttstock (IMO they are overall barrel heavy), then shoot it enough to make a decision. Lots of them for sale, often with “a box of 19” for sale with them. If you are unsure, or just using it as a training aid for a bigger caliber, it is lots less $$$ than popping for a .450 double.
......as mentioned above, there is simply something about a .577......a touchstone to the storied days of Africa.
- Mike




Good point Mike...I might try to find a used double at a good price as well. Saw a sabatti on another forum with ammo and brass for $4k.


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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Ahmed577]
      #310630 - 19/01/18 05:12 AM

Quote:

Have modern 500 and 577 guns. As a working tool the 500 can become a very versatile gun. The 577 is a specialist tool. I would add that a 500 compared to a 600 would evoke a different thought pattern. I have 2 600s and just ordered a third. Another 577 did not win me over.




Ahmed, care to explain what you mean by “different thought pattern” and “another 577 did not win me over”?

Thanks!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: vandeusenps]
      #310706 - 20/01/18 07:03 PM

If you have a .416 as you existing largest rifle, I would tend to go to a .500 V-C double rifle. IMO a .450 or .470 while decent choices do not represent a big enough jump up. A .416 bolt, and a .500 NE DR makes a nice battery for DG, the bolt as the backup choice and also very capable for plains game. A bolt action with a scope also is useful for buffalo herd shots, if needed.

For myself, having a .375 bolt action and a .450 No.2 NE dr I would definitely go for a .577 NE as my bigger rifle. For me, can't see the benefit of a .500 over a .450, if a .577 was in the offering. Yep the .500 is far more gun, than the .450, but so is the .577 over the .500. Yes the .577 is a more specialist tool. But if using it on water buffalo, cape buffalo, elephant, scrub bulls, etc, and many a pig, sounds suitable to me.

(btw I also have a ffffing plastic Mauser .404, but haven't used it much yet. Maybe this year.)

Rifle weight? My .450 is a lead pair of pipes and weight 13 1/4 lbs. I carry it all day either in my hands and arms or on a sling. When I first pick it up, it feels HEAVY. Later it feels like a feather ... ha ha, no it doesn't, but I carry it all day in the heat. No blackfella gun bearers here. Fellows grow some muscles. Ha ha. If I had to climb mountains with it, I might change my mind and get a choice of a lighter one.

Good advice given earlier. Find someone, somewhere and have some shots with some of these choices. If the largest you have shot is a .416, all of the .450s, .470s, .500s, .577s will be serious steps up. BTW no one likes recoil. Some like it less, nothing wrong with that. What is wrong, is shooting a rifle you causes you to flinch. So go for something you can handle. I find shooting something bigger than I usually use, makes the lesser monster feel like a pussy cat. I once found my .30-06 recoiled a lot. When I got a .375, the .30-06 was like a rimfire. Same for the .375 when I shoot the .450. If you shoot a .577, it is a relief to shoot the .450. So you get it I hope. The biggest recoiler I have shot is a .600 NE.

If considering a Sabatti make sure it has no regulation problems, muzzle griding etc. Many of this brand had a lot of problems a while back. Some owners have fine, cheaper rifles. Some owners did not. Anything being re-sold MAY be being resold for a reason.

BTW Verney-Carron are fine people and make good reliable rifles, with good service. A completely different story. I don't have one btw nor received any benefit from V-C.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ahmed577
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: NitroX]
      #310729 - 20/01/18 09:28 PM

Apologise. Meant 577 compared to 600. I find the 600 an easier gun to use than the 577 and for some silly reason the 600 appeals to my fascination of doubles more than the 577. I appreciate I may be on my own on this.

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416rigby
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Ahmed577]
      #310776 - 21/01/18 06:07 PM

I'll second the Ruger No1 idea. I had one rebarreled from 375 H&H to 500 Nitro, and I love it. For a couple thousand bucks investment you can play with it and see what you think. I have one in 416 Rigby as well. I'll never be able to afford a double or Africa, but the No1's are inexpensive African gun fun.

--------------------
"Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun"

U.S. Coast Guard, retired


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Matthew
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: 416rigby]
      #310861 - 23/01/18 10:26 AM

I have a 500 NE, a 577NE and a 600NE. I usually grab the 600because it is the most fun and more comfortable to shoot. All three guns fit equally well. The 11lb 500 is much sharper recoil than the 15 lb 600. It is true there is more recoil with the 577 and 600 but they are both more comfortable. I keep range sessions down to 10 full power loads with either the 577 or 600 and then shoot a bunch of light loads for plinking.

I say buy the 577 or step up to a 600 and you will be very happy!

Matthew


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Matthew]
      #310887 - 23/01/18 07:37 PM

A double rifle maker was saying to me just this week, that he thinks many double rlfles are made too light.

Interesting comments on your preference for which rifle to shoot, a heavier recoiling rifle of heavier weight, versus a lighter recoiler of lighter weight being not preferred.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Matthew
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: NitroX]
      #310894 - 24/01/18 03:24 AM

Yes, kind of backward maybe:) I think if the 500 were a pound or two heavier I would like it more. A friend has a 6 lb 458 win that I shot once and will never again. I prefer the big push of the freight train to the crack of the whip!

Luckily I am still young enough to not mind packing the 15 lb guns around.

Matthew


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vandeusenps
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Re: Double Rifle Caliber - Help Me Choose! [Re: Matthew]
      #310958 - 25/01/18 12:34 AM

Thanks again to all who have replied to this thread!

I will be attending this year's big bore shoot in Alaska, and will be able to shoot a 500, 577, and 600 side by side to see which one suits me the best.

Quote:

I have a 500 NE, a 577NE and a 600NE. I usually grab the 600because it is the most fun and more comfortable to shoot. All three guns fit equally well. The 11lb 500 is much sharper recoil than the 15 lb 600. It is true there is more recoil with the 577 and 600 but they are both more comfortable. I keep range sessions down to 10 full power loads with either the 577 or 600 and then shoot a bunch of light loads for plinking.

I say buy the 577 or step up to a 600 and you will be very happy!

Matthew




Matthew, talking with the U.S. rep for Verney-Carron, the cost increase is the same for upgrading to either the 577 or 600. What are you using for light loads in your 577/600? Do they regulate at all?


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