Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> 'Classic' Firearms Photos & Archive

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
cordite
.333 member


Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 310
Loc: NW Montana
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310026 - 06/01/18 03:02 AM

Yes please let us know how it goes. A 280 Ross has been on my list for years. Glad to hear that forming cases was not too difficult.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2692
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #310092 - 07/01/18 06:21 PM

Got to the range yesterday and had mixed results with the 280 Ross.
Firstly, the rifle itself was quite well-mannered and a joy to shoot, offering decent velocities for the AR2209 (H4350) loads I tested:
50gr = 2460fps with the 160gr Woodleigh.
52gr = 2590fps
53gr = 2640fps

They say you never stop learning, and at that point I was reminded of the need to check headspace after such radical case-forming, and to use brand new cases rather than once-fired! A couple of primers were high and velocities erratic in the next lot, and one case showed signs of incipient head separation so I bailed at that point.

Lesson learned: don't try radical fire-forming while working up loads at the same time!

The next lot will be brand new cases properly sized for a very light crush-fit in the chamber, and fire-formed with light loads before any further load development occurs.

Will continue this in the Reloading forum when I have more range results to report.
Rained all day today though....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1318
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310109 - 08/01/18 07:12 AM

Quote:

Despite many recent distractions, all components needed to get the .280s shooting are assembled at last.

In the end, cases were easy to make from .300 Win Mag brass. Just full-length size, trim, and neck/shoulder anneal. No need to remove the belt, as is often suggested. In fact, removing the belt would result in a badly undersized case-head and could be dangerous IMHO.

Bullets are the marvellous 160gr Woodleigh Protected Points intended for the .275 H&H. Hopefully the sequence of AR2209 (H4350) loads I assembled today will push them safely towards 2800 fps or thereabouts.

There is still room for a couple of issues to arise however. If either rifle has excess headspace it could require a false-shoulder for proper fire-forming (haven't measured headspace in either rifle), and uneven neck thickness could shorten case life since the lower part of the newly-formed neck includes some of the shoulder from the donor case and I haven't neck-reamed. Loaded rounds chamber just fine though.

All I need now is an hour of sunshine over the weekend to arc-up the chronograph. Our wet season is just getting started so no guarantees, but will report if successful.

Wish me luck!



Hey mate I don't mean to rain on your parade - but isn't the 300WM cases rather small in the head in regards to using them in this chamber?
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd280ross.jpg


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ExcessExpress
.333 member


Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310111 - 08/01/18 08:30 AM

Marrakai,

I would suggest using 375 or 416 ruger brass for your forming process, though I have read that the steps including annealing, twice!

The second of your rifles is a wonderful thing, it was very special to have it in my hands. I think the price made it a steal!



--------------------
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2692
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: ExcessExpress]
      #310132 - 08/01/18 04:42 PM

Gentlemen:
Yes it is raining but not on my parade!
...but thank you for your concerns.

Firstly, it is not my original idea to use the 300 Win Mag. I found one other report on a web forum describing successful use of that case as a donor.

I am aware of the potential suitability of using the Ruger cases, but necking 375 or 416 down to 280 is not without its price: annealing (twice!) is a given, but neck-turning or reaming would be crucial, and necks would probably crack before long anyway despite best efforts. One handloader reported cracking the sizing die during case forming!!
...and speaking of price, have you bought any 375 Ruger cases over the counter lately?!!

I initially tried a couple of 7mm Rem Mag cases that were lying around, intending to spin the necks out on a mandrel in the lathe to get them to the proper length, but they were just too short to make this viable.

Here's a couple of pics to allay your fears:


Left to Right: .300 Win Mag; Formed 280 Ross; Fireformed Case; Original Kynoch 280 Ross


Loaded round ready for fire-forming, alongside a Kynoch original.


Close-up of the head of the case after fireforming.

When a straight-edge is placed along the tapered body of the case, it just touches the front of the belt. All good!

...and the Ross M-10 extractor claw is plenty big enough to extract the case and hold it on the bolt-face till it hits the ejector.

Will try to grab some brand new 300 Win Mag cases this arvo to start afresh. This is fun!

BTW ExcessExpress, any hints on why there is a chook on the grip-cap? Hardly a grouse-gun...!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1318
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310133 - 08/01/18 07:25 PM

Certainly a labour of love Marrakai!
Certainly stretching things a bit, but you're right about the body taper in regard to the belt itself!
Not 100% sure if Bertram make this brass, I did have a list of then somewhere mate - but alas I can't find it for you!
Give them a try that may be your best bet in the long run!
93x64mm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 714
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310178 - 09/01/18 06:58 PM

Quote:

Got to the range yesterday and had mixed results with the 280 Ross.
Firstly, the rifle itself was quite well-mannered and a joy to shoot, offering decent velocities for the AR2209 (H4350) loads I tested:
50gr = 2460fps with the 160gr Woodleigh.
52gr = 2590fps
53gr = 2640fps




Here's some spec's from the 1939 Stoeger catalog:


A bit closer:


--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2692
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #310181 - 09/01/18 11:31 PM

Thanks for that info Rothhammer: much appreciated.

Looks like 54gr of smokeless behind the 160gr bullet gave 2700 fps in 1939, and my load sequence with AR2209 was headed right there!

I actually made up loads to 56gr but didn't end up shooting them.

A fifty-bag of nice shiny Norma 300WM unprimed brass is sitting on my reloading bench at this moment, waiting for the next iteration.

Hopefully tomorrow...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 714
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310224 - 10/01/18 07:41 PM



Glad to help. Was hoping these would be of use to you, at least for comparison.

If anyone needs any images scanned from the 1939 Stoeger, let me know and I'll be glad to provide them.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 714
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310225 - 10/01/18 07:57 PM

Quote:


Looks like 54gr of smokeless behind the 160gr bullet gave 2700 fps in 1939, and my load sequence with AR2209 was headed right there!




I should have included this...:


Here's the whole bit - pages 288,289 of the 1939 Stoeger:




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2692
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #310657 - 19/01/18 05:39 PM

Working around gaps in the monsoon, I managed to properly headspace and fire-form a batch of brand-new Norma cases: worked perfectly!

This morning's load sequence with AR2209 (H4350) under the 160gr Woodleigh produced the following consistent results:

52 gr = 2633 fps
53 gr = 2687 fps
53.5 gr = 2705 fps
54 gr = 2724 fps

I'll be happy with the 2700fps load that matches the 1939 published ballistics above, so 53.5 grains is the load!

Seriously considering giving the Ross a run in the Stalking Rifle event at our Big Game Rifle Club meet this weekend...

...weather permitting!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rothhammer1
.375 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 714
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #310659 - 19/01/18 07:01 PM

Quote:



I'll be happy with the 2700fps load that matches the 1939 published ballistics above, so 53.5 grains is the load!




I'm glad to know that was useful to you!

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 51
Loc: Canada
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #313703 - 09/03/18 08:33 AM

Hi Marakai

I,too, have a fine .280 that I have been intending to shoot. In fact I have acquired both 375 Ruger and 300 Win Mag brass to work with. It seems, from your experience, that the 300 Win option would be easier. The one thing that I wonder about, though, is excessive neck-thickening from the down-sizing. Have you had any issues with the necks?

Thanks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2692
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: leeenfield]
      #314066 - 17/03/18 02:07 PM

G'day leeenfield:
apologies for not responding earlier, been away from my computer travelling.
Firstly, the neck thickening is not really excessive when sizing .308 down to .287, whereas sizing .375 down to .287 certainly is! As mentioned, there is a slight 'step' inside the neck where the shoulder started on the .300 donor case, but its only a thou or two and doesn't seem to be an issue.
One could always inside neck-ream anyway if the need arose, assuming one was suitably equipped to do so. I am up to 3rd firing on my Norma cases and no issues so far. The rifle will be warmed up again tomorrow in a Classic Light Nitro event, providing Cyclone Marcus drags the wet weather away to the south-west.
Regarding the effort required to size down the .300 Win Mag cases, I am pretty conservative and at no point did I consider the 7/8 die to be at risk of cracking. Two things I consider crucial to the process are: use of anhydrous lanolin as the case lube (commercial lubes don't cut the mustard); and pushing the case into the die a mm or 2 at a time, with ~180 degree turning of the case between compressions.
I did try neck-and-shoulder annealing the .300 cases first but found no discernible difference when using new Norma cases.
With the CH4D die, removal of the depriming rod allowed the neck to lengthen with no issues, trimming to length afterwards. Didn't worry about the loose necks for the fire-forming loads. With other dies, you may need to trim the .300 slightly beforehand.
Hope this info is helpful.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
leeenfield
.275 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 51
Loc: Canada
Re: Model of 1910 .280 Sporting Rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #314085 - 18/03/18 08:56 AM

G'day to you too mate.
Thanks for your helpful reply. There were a number of tips in there that I think will be helpful and I will certainly try them and let you know the result. I am particularly happy with your lack of neck thickening issues since I am not set up for neck turning or reaming.

Cheers
LE


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 6 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 11982

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved