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FrankFarmer
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NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig
      #307849 - 17/11/17 03:33 AM

Family face permanent disablity after eating wild pig 10/57

The family were found unconscious.
Image - Facebook, video - Newshub The family were found unconscious.
Three people hospitalized in the Waikato, New Zealand, after eating wild boar may suffer permanent damage as a result.

The family are being treated for suspected food poisoning at Waikato Hospital after consuming the meat, believed to be contaminated by an unknown substance or bacteria.

Shibu Kochummen, wife Subi Babu and mother Alekutty Daniel were found unconscious by emergency staff at their Putaruru house on Friday.

Mr Kochummen collapsed while calling emergency services for medical help.

Family friend Joji Varghese told Newshub poisoning may have occurred after the victims ate contaminated pig.

"Shibu and some of his friends... went hunting for some wild boar," he said.

"They cooked and consumed it on Friday evening for dinner. Within half an hour they began throwing up. Shibu tried ringing the emergency services.

"Someone turned up at their door and found all three adults unconscious."

Mr Varghese says the trio are now in a vegetative state, and doctors are determining the cause of the incident.

"They have been diagnosed with food poisoning after having consumed contaminated wild boar," Mr Varghese said on Facebook.

"The nature of contamination is yet to be determined. Doctors are puzzled by the severity of the condition, as such a potent contaminant has not been reported in NZ since 1983."

He says the effects of the contamination may lead to irreversible damage.

"We do not know what was in that boar. The tests - the toxicology reports - still have not come out," he says.

"Currently all three are conscious but they're not aware of their surroundings. They spasm often, so they're moving involuntarily. There's no response to proper stimulus. Doctors fear it will lead to some form of permanent disability."

He's calling for aid from New Zealanders to help the family, who have two children and face a difficult recovery.

"I have had detailed conversations with the doctors treating them and they fear the worst," he wrote on Facebook. "They reckon it will take up to two months for the poison to be washed out of their body.

"Only then can they start to recover. Even if they recover consciousness, they may suffer permanent damage to their bodies, such as partial or total paralysis or tremors.

"There will be muscle wastage, which will require intensive physiotherapy. All of this could take up to six months or more.

"Their road to recovery is a long and rocky one."

The Waikato DHB says Mr Kochummen and Ms Daniel are stable in a ward, while Ms Babu is in a serious condition in a high dependency unit.

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"We are still investigating potential sources for the illness in this case, of which wild pork meat is one," says Waikato DHB medical officer of health Dr Richard Vipond.

"We do not have any evidence to determine any broader contaminated game meat or that there is a risk to public health."

A detailed toxicology report is expected on Friday.


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MikeRowe
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: FrankFarmer]
      #307852 - 17/11/17 05:24 AM

I wonder if the pig had ate some 1080?

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: MikeRowe]
      #307857 - 17/11/17 09:04 AM

Quote:

I wonder if the pig had ate some 1080?




G'Day Fella's,

Mike, that was my first thought also.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Daryl_S
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Homer]
      #307864 - 17/11/17 12:42 PM

My thought after the first two 2 sentences as well.

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Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Daryl_S]
      #307925 - 18/11/17 07:33 PM

The likely cause is botulism. While the media have made a big issue about the family eating "wild boar", it is likely to be the food storage method that is at the heart of this case. This is something the media have made only scant mention of, but which is a common factor in botulism cases. Currently samples are being tested in Queensland but it may be up to 2 weeks while they are cultured.

There is no suggestion that it is 1080.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #307926 - 18/11/17 08:15 PM

How aweful.

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...
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FrankFarmer
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: NitroX]
      #307947 - 19/11/17 05:25 AM

Re. 1080 http://dpipwe.tas.gov.au/agriculture/agvet-chemicals/1080-poison

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Sarg
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: FrankFarmer]
      #307961 - 19/11/17 08:44 AM

By the names I think Indian immigrants/refugees or similar, not Kiwi,s who know how to look after game from field to freezer, potentially any way ?

--------------------
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Daryl_S
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Sarg]
      #307972 - 19/11/17 11:05 AM

Good point, Sarg.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Altamaha
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Reged: 29/12/08
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Sarg]
      #307990 - 20/11/17 03:56 AM

Quote:

By the names I think Indian immigrants/refugees or similar, not Kiwi,s who know how to look after game from field to freezer, potentially any way ?




I have been think thinking along this line.

As a kid, I grew up in the coastal swamps of the Southeast U.S. (Georgia and Florida, right on the state line). Very hot in the summers, up to and over 100 degrees F. Hot and humid in the swamps!

Wild pigs were abundant and a staple in our household. I killed hundreds from the time I was taught to use a rifle, up until I left the country when drafted into the Armed Services.

We took very good care of the meat: Skinning and gutting as soon as the animal was on the ground, and a hasty trip back to cold storage to cool down the meat. The timber plantation we hunted on had a large walk in cooler for deer, range cattle and wild hogs. After cooling overnight the carcass was cut up and frozen.

We never had any problems with wild pig meat, due to our care and processing. And we cooked the meat until well done to avoid any trichinosis.

As botulism results from spoiled food, improper care rings the bell.

I recall a friend in the Military that contracted trichinosis from a boar that he killed when stationed in Turkey, darn near killed him. The story goes it was barbecued whole in traditional fashion over an open fire, on a big spit. Likely not all of it was well cooked.


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Dogfish858
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Altamaha]
      #308224 - 24/11/17 01:53 PM

I'd think a warm-weather immigrant would be better at handling food poisoning than the white appliance set. My first thought was 1080 or some sort of vegetable toxin in the pig. A country can't toss thousands of tons of poison willy nilly without some collateral damage.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Dogfish858
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Dogfish858]
      #308225 - 24/11/17 02:00 PM

...basic research shows all symptoms of 1080 poisoning.

Botulism maybe but that usually requires time and anaerobic conditions. Won't get it from bad steak. Will get it from bad steak made into sausage.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Dogfish858]
      #308240 - 24/11/17 08:23 PM

Quote:

I'd think a warm-weather immigrant would be better at handling food poisoning than the white appliance set.




NE isn't a PC forum, but that is really quite a ridiculous statement.

Really it is the sort of racism we see from the PC sorts.

White dumb and bad. Brownies good, oppressed and smart.

If you have ever visited India, or South East Asia, the average person has NO IDEA of wildlife. No idea of butchering. No idea of hunting. No idea of nature. Living their whole life in urban environments, in the city with other teeming millions, packed together.

As for meat in a "brown" hot humid environment where it goes off quickly. First meat is often expensive and much more rarely eaten. Sometimes not at all for cultural reasons. Especially pork or pig meat. Which can often be more risky as well. Meat in an urban environment might be bought "fresh" in an old style open market. Or shrink wrapped from a supermarket like we do. Most urbanites anywhere have never butchered anything. Also in Asia there is another reason for strong curries. Curry hides the flavour of rotten or off meat. Also to some extent if well cooked removes from the intestinal effects later on.

Now Babu and co, if new immigrants, and keen to learn about the outdoors, may have gone inexperienced out into the bush to get a bush pig. As we know handling a pig, and butchering a pig needs a little more care than some other animals.

Or these poor people, experienced or not, brown or white, may have eaten something infected somehow, by some disease, infected during butchering or after, or poisoned by 1080.

Very sad result for them. And scary for any hunter. A poisoned animal may well be easier to hunt and kill, but might still look not too bad, especially if seen and shot quickly. And what a horrible result as was in this case.

Personally even though 1080 is used by the farming industry, I lean towards not liking it all. And lean towards it being banned. Never used it myself. A neighbour I believe uses it for "fox" control. has warning signs on his boundary fences, permanently there, which is also incorrect and lazy. Should only be put out before bait is put out and removed some time later. Defeats their purpose to be permanently there.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Dogfish858
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: NitroX]
      #308256 - 25/11/17 03:02 AM

There's nothing pc about my statement. At one family wedding I attended there were 100 people of which 10 were born in Canada...the general color of my extended family is brown. As an observed fact, they are better at dealing with foodborne stuff.

Remembering that immigrants from overseas are usually top class in their home countries and it's not until arrival that they're taken down 47 notches, the people who're sick have a better chance of being pharmacists or engineers than hillbillies -- like my father in law who arrived in Canada with two engineering degrees and was forced to dig ditches for $3.25 hr cause the locals figured he was stupid.

But I digress. Point being: botulism requires 10-30 C in a saltless, anaerobic, basic environment. Potato salad in the sun for five hours, or sausage made with bad meat or otherwise neglected. As an fyi much high end sausage is left at room temp to 'bloom' for hours. It's accepted practice. But animal muscle tissue is aerobic and acidic, and unlikely to have botulism in any quantity. The inside of a muscle is essentially pure. And the only likely food poisoning outcome is the barf-n-vomit weekender.

What is most likely, to me, is 1080 or vegetable poisoning, especially if they ate the intestines, which based on Youtube videos is a likely first stop for non-Islamic Asians.

This is a great forum. I wouldn't polute it with PC lol!

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Daryl_S
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Dogfish858]
      #308260 - 25/11/17 03:14 AM

Quote:

There's nothing pc about my statement. At one family wedding I attended there were 100 people of which 10 were born in Canada...the general color of my extended family is brown. As an observed fact, they are better at dealing with foodborne stuff.

Remembering that immigrants from overseas are usually top class in their home countries and it's not until arrival that they're taken down 47 notches, the people who're sick have a better chance of being pharmacists or engineers than hillbillies -- like my father in law who arrived in Canada with two engineering degrees and was forced to dig ditches for $3.25 hr cause the locals figured he was stupid.

But I digress. Point being: botulism requires 10-30 C in a saltless, anaerobic, basic environment. Potato salad in the sun for five hours, or sausage made with bad meat or otherwise neglected. As an fyi much high end sausage is left at room temp to 'bloom' for hours. It's accepted practice. But animal muscle tissue is aerobic and acidic, and unlikely to have botulism in any quantity. The inside of a muscle is essentially pure. And the only likely food poisoning outcome is the barf-n-vomit weekender.

What is most likely, to me, is 1080 or vegetable poisoning, especially if they ate the intestines, which based on Youtube videos is a likely first stop for non-Islamic Asians.

This is a great forum. I wouldn't polute it with PC lol!




I had always thought botulism was normally a veggie-based, earth-based bacterium, but then - "Clostridium spores produce botulism, a major cause of food disease. Cooking spoiled meat to a high temperature kills some bacteria, but can leave toxins behind. The remaining toxins cause food-borne illnesses, and cooking does not destroy them."

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Dogfish858]
      #308334 - 27/11/17 12:08 AM

Quote:

There's nothing pc about my statement. At one family wedding I attended there were 100 people of which 10 were born in Canada...the general color of my extended family is brown. As an observed fact, they are better at dealing with foodborne stuff.

Remembering that immigrants from overseas are usually top class in their home countries and it's not until arrival that they're taken down 47 notches, the people who're sick have a better chance of being pharmacists or engineers than hillbillies -- like my father in law who arrived in Canada with two engineering degrees and was forced to dig ditches for $3.25 hr cause the locals figured he was stupid.

But I digress. Point being: botulism requires 10-30 C in a saltless, anaerobic, basic environment. Potato salad in the sun for five hours, or sausage made with bad meat or otherwise neglected. As an fyi much high end sausage is left at room temp to 'bloom' for hours. It's accepted practice. But animal muscle tissue is aerobic and acidic, and unlikely to have botulism in any quantity. The inside of a muscle is essentially pure. And the only likely food poisoning outcome is the barf-n-vomit weekender.

What is most likely, to me, is 1080 or vegetable poisoning, especially if they ate the intestines, which based on Youtube videos is a likely first stop for non-Islamic Asians.

This is a great forum. I wouldn't polute it with PC lol!




Not a problem. Where I am coming from, is I have had Indian friends and acquaintances in Australia who seem to have never stepped off concrete in their lives before coming here.

A Jain friend once asked me to take him out hunting. First time, he forgot to come. Second time he arrived hours late. In the middle of the day, wrong time for game so took him for a walk. And some target shooting. "Stalking" around rabbit holes, he just strood around, seemed to purposely step on every twig and leaf, did copy me to use cover, was completely clueless. An IT guy.

He was committing complete sacrilege. Later I found out also Jain's believe in killing nothing, even insects. Visiting a Jain temple in India one was supposed to remove all leather for example before entering. The buggers even wanted my leather wallet ... which of course they did not get.

Others have been similar. Usually when visiting India, Sri Lanka, SE Asia the guides are completely clueless about nature. "Speciality" local guides living in the country/bush are different.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Dogfish858
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: NitroX]
      #308544 - 01/12/17 06:51 AM

Turned out to be botulism apparently. Still seems like a peculiar timeline unless they used an old sauce or something.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: NZ family gravely ill after eating wild pig [Re: Dogfish858]
      #308568 - 01/12/17 11:42 PM

Quote:

Turned out to be botulism apparently. Still seems like a peculiar timeline unless they used an old sauce or something.




Thanks for reporting on that.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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