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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
big bore barrel source????
      #308151 - 23/11/17 05:10 AM

Hi,
I'm looking into building a big bore flintlock muzzleloader and am looking for a source of big bore barrels. I'm considering anything from 12 through 8 bore. Does anyone know of a company that makes barrels like that? I would definitely want Forsyth style rifling for heavy charges with round balls.

Any info would be great.

Thanks

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Wayne59
.400 member


Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308163 - 23/11/17 07:58 AM

Oregon Barrel in Springfield Oregon. Contact the Gun Works in in Springfield Oregon and talk to Joe or Suzy Williams. They own Oregon Barrel. 514-741-4118. They will make any size barrel you want. They make very good barrels.

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Wayne59]
      #308166 - 23/11/17 09:35 AM

Another is Ed Rayle. Could find his number if needed. Same with Bobby Hoyt.

I would suggest a twist of no more than 70" or 80" at the most for 12 bore. The same can be said for 8 bore.

My .69, which is 14 bore, had non-diminished accuracy from 125gr.2F through to 200gr.2F. It has a 66" twist.

My buddy's .75 (11 bore) also shoots well with 200gr. and it's only a 60" or so - might be the Getz standard at 56".

You might find you do not like shooting something that requires more powders than these rifles.

Keith's rifle also does fairly well with 125gr.2F and with a 600gr. ball, that's actually quite enough for us. With that charge, it actually keeps a hardened ball inside a moose.

More than that and they exit.

My bro shot a moose many years ago with a .75 Brown Bess, using a pure lead .735" ball with 100gr. 2F. I have the ball in my 'stuff' here somewhere and it measures 1 1/4" in diameter, only about 1/4" thick and stopped up against the hide on the offside, ribs penned both sides, with a 2 1/2" hole through the lungs.

I also suggest no more than .012" depth of rifling.

Perhaps .005" depth and a 102" twist would be fun to play with - or not.
It would take a looser load, that is for sure. Heavy charges and deep rifling in 60" to 66" takes a very tight ball and patch combination.

Some sort of wad between the patched ball and powder will allow a slighlty looser combination as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: DarylS]
      #308169 - 23/11/17 09:47 AM

Bobby Hoyt --------I would try this one first.
2379 Mt. Hope Road,
Fairfield, PA 17320
(717) 642-6696 Tel. He likely will not
hear the phone over his machinery.

or

Robert A. Hoyt
700 Fairfield Station Road
Fairfield, PA.
17320

Ed Rayl Barrels

Ed Rayl
PO Box 91
Gassaway, WV 26624
(304) 364-8269

This link might help.

http://therifleshoppe.com/contact.htm

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: DarylS]
      #308231 - 24/11/17 04:58 PM

Thanks a lot for all your advice. I'll contact Oregon Barrel as well as Hoyt and Rayl.

Daryl: What sort of a charge would a 8 bore with a 80 inch twist use? I had assumed it would be a lot slower than that.

Does anyone have a rough guess what a 8 bore barrel would cost?

Thanks for your help. I'm sure I'll have more questions.

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308245 - 24/11/17 09:17 PM

I bought a couple of 8 bore barrels for my Double 8 from Oregon Barrels, but 6-7 years back now, I have the receipt some where, but I think $400 + each ?

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Sarg]
      #308253 - 25/11/17 02:20 AM

Thanks Sarg. What rifling style, depth, twist etc. did you use? What charge do you use? How long and what diameter?

Any other details or recommendations would be great!! Thanks a lot

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308257 - 25/11/17 03:05 AM

Should easily use 8 drams, I would expect. If never expecting to shoot past about 50 or 75 yards, less powder could be used.
I'd likely go a bit slower with the 8 bore - maybe 100", and 80" would work for the smaller sizes.

Greener lists 10 drams for the 8 and 10 bores - that's 273.5gr., by the numbers, and 7 drams (191gr.)for the heaviest of 2 loads for the 12.

Of course, the slower the twist, the more shallow the rifling can be & thus, the looser the fit - perhaps. Much depends on the accuracy needed or demanded.

Those charges are all listed a developing 1,600/1,650fps in 10 and 8 bore and 1,760fps in the 12.

My 12 smoothbore made 1,550fps with 191gr. with a (14bore) 482gr. ball, ball not 1,760fps with a 600gr. ball, and that was from a 24" bls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: DarylS]
      #308284 - 25/11/17 03:20 PM

Thanks for all the info Daryl.

Does anyone have any experience with shooting or hunting with an 8 bore? What about a 10 or 12 bore? Any information or experience as far as loads, range, effectiveness etc. would be welcome.

Thanks

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308299 - 26/11/17 04:20 AM

Ron Vella got his whitetail buck this fall with his SXS 12

using factory slug load that can easily be duplicated in a

muzzleloading rifle.

My buddy Keith has shot perhaps close to 2 dozen moose with

his 11 bore rifle - a 31" Getz barrel made by Don, or John.

Don passed away last year and since John Getz has been quite

sick, he might not be back in the shop yet.

Keith started off using 200gr. 2f GOEX, with a .735" ball,

then dropped his charge year after year trying to keep a WW

ball that size inside a moose. He said at 120gr.2F, they

stop up against the far side. That's 4.4 drams with a

570gr. ball @ about 1,300fps.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: DarylS]
      #308469 - 29/11/17 09:02 AM

Thanks for all the help. I've been busy so I haven't had a chance to do much more on it yet. I think I'll call some barrel makers tomorrow.

Does anyone have any suggestions on barrel length, width across the flats, or anything else for an 8 bore barrel or a 12 bore barrel?

What would be a good weight for an 8 bore single barrel rifle? What about for a 12 bore for very heavy charges (as in over 200 grains)?

Thanks again.

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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308479 - 29/11/17 03:41 PM

I have always wanted to build a 8 bore muzzle loader ,like the Samuel Baker gun ,the October country 8 bore weighs 15 pound [including 2 pound mercury recoil reducer],Samuel Bakers was 22 pound ,October Countries 8 bore, is $8500.00 US, and build time of 1 1/2 years .32 inch barrel ,I think Bakers was 36 inch barrel .

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #308486 - 29/11/17 05:13 PM

Forsyth thought a 14 or 12 should have 26" tubes, but could use 24" very well.

Larger bores like the 8, could get by with 24" barrels and even 22" was not too short. He is talking SxS's of course.

This from "The Sporting Rifle and It's Projectiles" printed in England, 1863.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: DarylS]
      #308507 - 30/11/17 06:11 AM

500Boswell: Thanks for the info. I live only a couple of hours south of where the October country guns are made and I hope to go and see one of them if I go up to Post Falls for the gun show next month. Weather permitting of course.

Daryl: Thanks. I have been hoping to do a shorter barrel. I would like to see how one would do and if it shot well with a short barrel it might make a good gun for hunting elk in thick timber. Maybe considerably overkilling it but I hate tracking a wounded animal.

Does anyone have any pictures of single shot muzzleloading big bores? I have found some in the past in the bore gun forum but a lot of the pictures seem to not be there anymore.

Thanks

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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308527 - 30/11/17 04:46 PM

Quote:

500Boswell:
Does anyone have any pictures of single shot muzzleloading big bores? I have found some in the past in the bore gun forum but a lot of the pictures seem to not be there anymore.

Thanks


8 Bore Boxlock at the top of the page.
Photo Gallery of various big bores, singles and doubles.

A lot of missing pictures on many forums is thanks to Photobucket.

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: CowboyCS]
      #308555 - 01/12/17 10:00 AM

I have posted several pics about my 4 & 6 bore muzzle loaders on this forum

If they are not now available (primarily thanks to Photobucket) tell me what pics (or types of pics) you require and I will endeavour to repost them for you

TH44

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: TH44]
      #308578 - 02/12/17 05:06 AM

Thanks!!!

CowboyCS: that 8 bore boxlock is a beauty! Is the recoil excessive with it only 11 pounds? What sort of charges have you fired in it? The double 10 bore is a beauty too. What sort of charges did it take?

TH44: Thanks for your offer of reposting the pictures I would love to get all the pictures I can. I am trying to figure out exactly how I want the rifle to be shaped. Especially side views and if possible a top view or two would be great. However any pictures at all would be a great help!!!

Thank you all so much!!!

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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308584 - 02/12/17 07:35 AM

IIRC the 8 Bore was sighted in using 275grs FFG Goex. The recoil felt about the same as my .458WInMag only more push and less sharp.

I don't remember off the top of my head what the load was for the 10 bores, I'd have to go check my build notes.

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308595 - 02/12/17 12:15 PM

Hope these help



Bentley and Playfair 4 bore, 26" bbl

I am having a lot of problems uploading from imgur

TH44

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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: TH44]
      #308599 - 02/12/17 04:06 PM

Lane I have a couple of photos I can email you ,if you let me know your email

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308610 - 03/12/17 02:09 AM

I am trying a new image editor



Top 4 bore goose gun

middle Belgian 4 bore rifle 30"barrel, 20 lbs

bottom Alexander Henry 6 bore 30" barrel 16 lbs

I will try to post some other pics

Tony

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: TH44]
      #308612 - 03/12/17 02:24 AM

Here we go



The Belgian 4 bore rifle



The Bentley and Playfair 4 bore rifle



The Alexander Henry 6 bore rifle





L to R Bentley and Playfair, Belgian, Alexander Henry, Goose gun

Good luck in your endeavours

Tony

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: TH44]
      #308621 - 03/12/17 08:46 AM

I think I'll still have a go if I got the chance to fire one....might need a few stiff drinks first & get some Dutch courage up!
But those are some SERIOUSLY BIG holes in the end of those 'artillery' pieces!

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Lane
.224 member


Reged: 24/05/17
Posts: 34
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #308635 - 03/12/17 05:25 PM

CowboyCS: How far is that 8 bore boxlock sighted into? What would it's point blank range be? What rifling twist did the barrel have?

TH44: Thanks for the pictures! They will really help. Have you ever fired or hunted with any of them? They look like they are in good shooting condition.

500Boswell: I sent you a PM with my email. If you could send the pictures you mentioned that would be great!!

Thank you all so much for your help. It is really appreciated!!!

Lane

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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: big bore barrel source???? [Re: Lane]
      #308643 - 04/12/17 02:48 AM

Customer had me sight it for 60 yards. The twist was 1:96. I'm not sure what the point blank range is, I've never considered it with Big Bores(8,6,4,2) because their historical and primary purpose was short distance on dangerous game.

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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