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Funny, the same debate occurred over a century ago regarding the 303 British and the 256 Dutch (6.5X53R)!
Both are lovely if used appropriately and, ..............

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As for as a big game hunting ctg. is concerned, the 6.5 pales in the face of the .308 - on big game. I do not consider antelope or deer as big game. When it comes to elk, moose, large bears, I'd rather have the larger diameter bullet, thanks.

If the 6.5 was capable of shooting a .30 cal. 200gr. bullet at 2,550fps to 2,600fps, then it would be equivalent, not better, just equivalent. imho

I fully endorse the 6.5 for smaller game, like deer, antelope, black bears, etc - out to extended ranges (3 to 400yards even)., but not for big and/or dangerous game.

As this was a choice, I picked the larger one. I seriously think .358 is about minimum for the bigger 'stuff'.

Yeah- the .30's will work, even the .270, as long as you can shoot better than Jack - but I prefer larger bullets.

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As was proved by NE member "Orion" a 6.5x54 M-S will work on water buffalo, on our 2005 hunt with Graham Williams of Australian Buffalo Hunters.

Even though a member tried to stop the hunt because he believed it should not be done.

Orion shot TWO water buffalo with three bullets. Though the second bullet for the first water buffalo bull was un-necessary.

Just takes a well aimed bullet to the heart.

Ha ha, Daryl, I agree with your comments however. There are always exceptions.

Big calibre for larger game always equals BETTER, in general terms.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Funny, the same debate occurred over a century ago regarding the 303 British and the 256 Dutch (6.5X53R)!
Both are lovely if used appropriately and, frankly, I prefer both to the 308 and Creedmoor!

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For the purpose of that debate, the subject however was probably a rifle cartridge for war. And for the shooting of soft skinned fragile man, the 6.5mm was more than adequate.

Animals are tougher than men.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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What when carring a bench, spotting scope, mat to lie on, buddy to spot for you, range estimators, probably a lap top for calculating ballistics, ear phones, ammunition, why is the length of the action SO IMPORTANT ??? !!!! And the slightly lesser weight of the rifle in a target rifle ??? !!!

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The little boy who pointed out the Emperor was wearing no clothes ...

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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What when carring a bench, spotting scope, mat to lie on, buddy to spot for you, range estimators, probably a lap top for calculating ballistics, ear phones, ammunition, why is the length of the action SO IMPORTANT ??? !!!! And the slightly lesser weight of the rifle in a target rifle ??? !!!

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The little boy who pointed out the Emperor was wearing no clothes ...

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Per what I have been told previously by my gun building buddies is also stated below--as it points out, think the idea is much less about actual weight and more concerned with accuracy..every little bit helps .. kinda like packing for a 2 week backpacking trip...cutting off the handles on the tooth brush.(for those of us who still have teeth , ounces make pounds.. every little advantage to win the match, etc...

This is a brief article I found..


The short action receiver (built to hold .308 Rem/NATO length and shorter cartridges) is typically about 1” shorter and weighs about a quarter pound less than the long action receiver. Its shorter bolt throw could theoretically allow slightly faster reloading. Since it has a much shorter ejection port, it is stiffer and will not torque or bend quite as much as a long action. It also has a lighter firing pin in most rifles so the lock time (the time from pulling the trigger until the firing pin hits the primer) can be (and on the Rem 700 IS) faster.

The last two differences make the short action popular with benchrest shooters because they need everything they can get for accuracy and they typically don’t need powerful cartridges to punch a hole in paper. The short lock time helps them get the shot off while they see the cross hairs exactly on the target. Nowadays, we have good action bedding systems so that neither the long or short actions are allowed to bend or torque so some long range benchrest shooters use long action cartridges very effectively. Custom aluminum firing pins are also now available to reduce the long action lock time to nearly the same as short actions.
The long action receiver is built for 30-06 and shorter cartridges. Therefore, you can shoot a .308 Rem cartridge and even shorter cartridges in them too if you like as long as your barrel is chambered for the cartridge. Both the .308 Rem (short case) and the 30-06 (long case) shoot 30 caliber (.308” diameter) bullets so you seldom see someone shooting .308 Rem cartridges in a long action. They typically just use a 30-06 cartridge version. Both the 30-06 and the .270 are "long" cartridges so they won’t fit in a short action receiver. People typically use long action receivers to enable them to use more powerful cartridges.

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (11/11/17 03:20 AM)

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I can understand action length in a AR, not so much the need in a bolt action.

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This just crossed my mind...remember when Remington come out with their cheaper rifle, the 788..however it had a faster lock time so everyone started buying those for target shooting..in fact Remington built those too good which took away the sales of the more expensive model 700..so away they 788's went...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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308-win-vs-65-creedmoor- Which-is-better/?

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The extra-long actions of the .338 Lap and the .5 bolt guns seem to shoot fairly well at the longer ranges.

Good points on action length, etc, John.

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You are right, Ripp - the 6.5's are more accurate at the closer ranges.

When we're talking 1,500yards and beyond, what many now seem to call long range, the little ones cannot compare due to the laws of physics, of course, neither can the .308.

I was quite astounded, my 30mm Vortec scope got me on the 1,000 meter buffalo's heart, in a mere 2 shots. the Rifle was a stock .300 MAG, Bronwing A3, shooting factory Winchester 180gr. Bonded, zeroed at 200meters.

IIRC, I needed only 27 moa elevation and the scope provides 30 moa correction.
I used this program: The BC's and etc, were all guess-at.
The second column gives moa correction for the ranges. Unfortunately the chart is in yards and I could get it to change it to meters, however the extrapolation is only an extra 9 yards per 100 meters, pretty simple. My screw-up needing 2 shots at 1000, was due to holding for 1000 yards, not 1,090 yards. The second shot was needed due to my flub, oh well. My first shot was just under the heart area, second with correction for the extra 90yards was spot-on.

That scope makes it easy if you have a range finder.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballis...=+Create+Chart+

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Agree..especially some of the newer ones..equipment is getting more and more user friendly..

The Sig Sauer 2400 is an incredible unit for the money...saw a guy do a 1003 yard shot last week using a 280AI with the new Hornady ELD--162 gr I believe ..smoked a bull elk....not my cup of tea on game..but was not my shot..it took three steps and tipped over...have several friends using them...nice and compact..imho, better unit than the Gunwerks model..who also just come out with a new model btw, to compete with the Sig..

https://www.sigsauer.com/products/electro-optics/rangefinders/kilo2400/

AS to the comment of another post made by another member which suggested the 6.5 is not a good choice for moose, there are approx. 300,000 Swedish hunters that might argue that point as in 6.5x55..

Ross Seyfried once wrote an article about hunting elk with a 6.5x54 Mannlicher using an 160 gr Oryx bullet which he had altered slightly to make it expand quicker. He wrote one shot, one elk..

Finally it is proven, the 6.5 is far from inferior to the 270..actually the opposite is true in every sense of the word..sad but true state of affairs, the 6.5, especially in longer distances (400 yards and beyond) is very much ballistically superior to the 270, period.

Ripp





Edited by Ripp (21/11/17 02:39 PM)

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From a hunting perspective take two identical rifles, have one in 308 and one in 65 Creedmoor and I very much doubt whether you nor the game you are shooting will now the difference. A correctly constructed bullet is probably more important than the calibre.

And if the game will only be irritated by being shot with a 6.5 or 308, then you take out the 375 H&H or 470. And if its long range and needs really destroying then thats the job for the 338 Lapua, 50BMG or heavy artillery

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From a hunting perspective take two identical rifles, have one in 308 and one in 65 Creedmoor and I very much doubt whether you nor the game you are shooting will now the difference. A correctly constructed bullet is probably more important than the calibre.

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From a hunting perspective take two identical rifles, have one in 308 and one in 65 Creedmoor and I very much doubt whether you nor the game you are shooting will now the difference. A correctly constructed bullet is probably more important than the calibre.

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Meant to add,

I do agree that ballisticlly the 6.5 is better than the 270 and I think the 7mm but the larger bullets put a bigger hole in the critter. If I was to be buying a 270 today would I or would I go the 6.5. Still go the 270 here simply because of the ammo situation and I can legally hunt Sambar in Victoria with a 270, I can't with a 6.5. If I was into long range shooting a 6.5 is what I would have.

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Really?? Caliber restriction there on larger game??


As to 6.5 or 308..here are a couple of new ones available in 2018 ..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/21/kimber-announces-new-precision-rifles/


Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (29/11/17 05:08 AM)

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From a hunting perspective take two identical rifles, have one in 308 and one in 65 Creedmoor and I very much doubt whether you nor the game you are shooting will now the difference. A correctly constructed bullet is probably more important than the calibre.

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Meant to add,

I do agree that ballisticlly the 6.5 is better than the 270 and I think the 7mm but the larger bullets put a bigger hole in the critter. If I was to be buying a 270 today would I or would I go the 6.5. Still go the 270 here simply because of the ammo situation and I can legally hunt Sambar in Victoria with a 270, I can't with a 6.5. If I was into long range shooting a 6.5 is what I would have.

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Really?? Caliber restriction there on larger game??


As to 6.5 or 308..here are a couple of new ones available in 2018 ..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/21/kimber-announces-new-precision-rifles/


Ripp

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Yep. In Victoria the legal minimum for Sambar - Indian Elk - is 270 and I think they still have a minimum case length of 2". People have taken Sambar with 243 but possible more have been lost than found. The Sambar is noticeably bigger than a Red Deer and some drop easy but most soak up punishment. A heart shot Sambar -taking it the heart wasn't full of blood when hit - can travel several 100 mts before dropping. Normally less but still more than most. This restriction was advised by experienced Sambar Hunters back in the 60's or earlier I believe.

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