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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Elephant charges.
      #30716 - 08/05/05 03:09 AM

Today I've been putting together an elevated target that is fastened to a small sled. The sled can be pulled by a car via a long rope to simulate a charging elephant (or anything else that charges) towards the shooter.

Just how fast do most elephants run when charging towards hunters? What speed would be most authentic? And how about buff?

The setup is mosty just for some fun shooting practice, but I might as well make it as authentic as possible!

Any thoughts on the matter from those who might know would be appreciated.

Erik


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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30742 - 08/05/05 02:13 PM

The last elephant I saw charging was doint about 285 miles per hour it seemed to me....

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: atkinson6]
      #30754 - 08/05/05 07:58 PM

Thanks Ray. Unfortunatly my car has difficulties reaching such speeds, and the sled would probably catch fire long before that...



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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30756 - 08/05/05 10:54 PM

A picture of my ingenious contraption:

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30775 - 09/05/05 05:52 AM

Hi Erik

Nice target.I would say 2500 km to have a try with it.

I suffered from more charges than I ever wished. Worst, 2 were triggered by the PH (the late Issa).
I observed only 2 real charges and was content to ride in the car.
I estimate 20-30 km/h (14-20mph) a false charge.
A real charge is slower than a Toy or a Land Rover in
2nd gear : say under 50 km/h (< 35mph).

I recommend you search more seriously because you might try it for real in a couple of weeks.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: larcher]
      #30776 - 09/05/05 05:58 AM



Sorry Erik

Sorry to insult Issa's memory.
The stupid guide was (and still is) Garibou.
Good luck

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30787 - 09/05/05 05:00 PM



Now I understand you are going to drag this behind your car to practice brain shots on a running elephant.

I recommend if a brain shot doesn't stop it, go for a "body" shot. The front third of the car, about a third up just behind the front leg (tyre) should get the 'boiler room'. A couple quick rounds should finish it off.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: NitroX]
      #30798 - 10/05/05 12:31 AM

If the car is driving straight away from you, a shot in the tail light will break the hip socket. A shot in the license plate may take out the spine.

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Metswedi
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Yorks. England
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: 500grains]
      #30800 - 10/05/05 12:41 AM

Also doubles up as a practice target for if you ever need to stop a charge from a team of huskies or a wounded Santa!!!

--------------------
Perfer et obdura!

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: Metswedi]
      #30810 - 10/05/05 06:27 AM

Metswedi,

A wounded Santa (or his vicious reindeer) is not to be taken lightly! This is of course common knowledge way up north where we Norwegians live.

And the suggestions to take out the cars engine block, tail lights and license plate have all been seriously considered. Unfortunatly, my test driver refuses to let me shoot until the car itself has passed me (about a meter to the side), and thus when the sled is rushing my way via its 40 meter long rope... I asked if the driver questioned my ability to shoot straight, and she said "yes"...

Tommorow will be the first try out, as I didn't have a chance today.

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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30811 - 10/05/05 08:12 AM

No test driver required for realism if you use an alternate method.

Pay a tow service to haul a car straight from an accident scene to the top of the closest hill, which appears to be visible on the left side of your photo, then release the car to roll downhill toward you. You fire on the car which may go in any direction depending on the type of damage to the front end. If the car keeps going straight you decide to stand and get run over while shooting or step out of the way. If the car swerves while going downhill, you may have to run toward it to get a shot. If you decide to shoot for any reason you then pay the wrecker driver (who can be your simulated PH) a suitable fee of several thousand dollars...actually since it is a simulation, maybe pay him $10.

This also has the added advantage in that cars are not all the same size...with any luck he may one day stop by with a large truck. This variation in vehicle sizes also takes into account the fact that you never know what size animal will charge.

Richard.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30816 - 10/05/05 11:06 AM

Mate

I think your cart may be a little unstable at speed. Don't stand too close else you might be collected on the charge!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: NitroX]
      #30822 - 10/05/05 01:23 PM

Erik,

If you tie a sofa halfway up that pole, you could practice running lung shots.

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: NitroX]
      #30828 - 10/05/05 05:34 PM

NitroX,

The picture doesn't tell the whole story! The sled had thick steel runners, is very bottom heavy, and due to the low placed weight is more stable than it would first seem. It weighs about 35kg. But I have thought of this, and will put some weights on the sled when being dragged by the car (later today?). On the otherhand, if it does tip over towards me at 30km/h, then we do actually bring in "dangerous game" into the equation!

500grains idea of using a sofa for lungshots would be a bit difficult for this sled though. I'll let him try that out himself first.

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30833 - 10/05/05 07:40 PM

Erik

This week end when back from hunting, my front left tyre exploded and my toyota rolled over 3 times at 55 mph. The car is a wreck.
Only my head is bruised.
A piece of luck, it's the only organ I never use.

Will You the carcass of my Land Cruiser. It mimicks a medium size ele fairly well.

jb

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: larcher]
      #30856 - 11/05/05 12:30 AM

Larcher

Glad to hear you are OK. I too rolled my 4WD some years ago and mainly also only bruised my skull (did fracture a rib as well with my elbow). The knock on the head actually fixed a recurring illness I had, believe it or not.

A question. Was your skull bruised on the left side? Was the left side window broken?

This happened to me only it was the right side. My head smashed the drivers window and I never felt a thing.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #30980 - 13/05/05 04:22 AM

The sled/moving target thing worked out very well actually!

And I did as advised by some by using a target only 2 meters up instead of 2.6 meters up for the one dragged by the car. I also added a 20 liter watercan lashed to the sled to add weight down below, and keep the contraption stable. The target did still wobble side to side as it was being dragged though, so it looked very "alive".

I then got the car to pull it at 35-40 km/h down a private gravel road (with a hill in the backround for safety), and pass by me 1 meter to my right side (no reason to get run over by the car!). The sled was fastened to the car with a 20 meter rope, as having it longer didn't work due to the terrain/road. The 20 meters of rope at that speed gave me just time to get off 2 shots within about 2 seconds, and the rifle wasn't raised, and the safety pushed off until the moment the car passed me. I ended up doing this 10 times. with all shots ending up within a 6-7 inch circle. Besides a couple of flyers that went out to about 9 inches.

I then added to the fun by putting up a second elevated target (the old 2.6 meter high one) 90 degrees, and 10 meter out to the left, so the drill then became 2 shots at
the "charging" target, and then 2 more shots at the one "sneaking in on my
left side". I then did this drill about 20 times (split up between two days), and I plan to continue with more next weekend.

The only "problem" is the logistics of dragging and positioning the sled back in it's starting place, which eats up quite a lot of time.

Even if there might be a better way to do it, it was good practice, and terrific fun no matter what! I can highly recommend setting something like this up, even if it's just for the fun of it!

Erik


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #31012 - 13/05/05 01:49 PM

In reply to:

Metswedi,

A wounded Santa (or his vicious reindeer) is not to be taken lightly! This is of course common knowledge way up north where we Norwegians live.



No need to worry about Santa or his Reindeer.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: NitroX]
      #31144 - 15/05/05 12:40 AM

NitroX

You a diviner.
Yes only the left side of my face is scratched.
I just ascertain I was KO during 2 hours. No troubles, I am absolutely OK.
I am only suffering from sore throat because I quitted smoking 3 weeks ago. The ENT spec confirmed it is the rule and I'll suffer during 3 or 6 months. Bad advertising for smoking quitting.

HI ERIK

Congratulations, you are a talented and imaginative DG hunter. I am sure I couldn't pratise so much.
I fear You'll feel that real Ele hunting is something like boring or deja-vu.
Are You not afraid your stunning luxurious Mauser will be smoothbored when You'll hit Africa ? I wouldn't wish to be in a ele hide anywhere in Zim.
Are your Northforks shipshape? I was told there is no 375HH Hornady training bullets available in Norway.
The best part of hunting Africa is making preparations and rejoicing in advance?
Seriously, I consider meeting You anyday just to have a try at your rolling device. I am sort a of running boar target addict. I'd better not to look at low cost flies up to Oslo. Less than 2 hours I think. Is it still freezing back there?
Have Fun on. Good luck.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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jdb
.224 member


Reged: 23/05/05
Posts: 1
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #31740 - 23/05/05 01:17 AM

ErikD, It's always good to practice,but until you experience an elephant charge to put the event in real terms,everything else is just play. I recommend you hunt other big game in ZW or MO in the Zambezi River Valley before hunting elephant. There are serval large groups and small family herds in the area. You can see how they react to man when babies are present or a lone bull. Female groups with babies have a warning zone and a kill zone. Some areas of the Zambezi Valley are so thick you cannot see five yards.In these conditions it's hard to know,with elephants screaming on three sides and you can't see any, what zone you are in. On alighter note,if you want to feel the charge of an elephant,stand on the traintracks with a train coming at you and do not raise your rifle until it is less then 20yards. In heavy dense areas, you think!!;you die!! jdb

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: jdb]
      #31751 - 23/05/05 03:44 AM

jdb

Welcome to the Forum. It sounds as if you speak from expreriance. Where are you from?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: jdb]
      #31783 - 23/05/05 05:58 PM

Jdb,

Thank you for your concern. I might point out though that although I up till now haven't hunted elephant, it doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't been in contact with elephant before. I would think actually that I might well have been around more elephant than most first time non-resident elephant hunters. Or at least a lot of first timers. And one time has to be the first time for everyone!


Erik

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: EricD]
      #31857 - 24/05/05 08:02 AM

I attended the first bigbore shoot of the Big Bore club of Sierra Vista Arizona yesterday. It was held around a small(50/75yd dia) pit with high berm on one side. The charging elephant was an Elephant sillouette (front view) with a 6"/8" red circle on the forehead. A cable was run from the high side of berm to low side of pit. The target was on trolleys and was released by pull cord and ran downhill by gravity. Everyone had much fun. Limited to 40cal and above. Mostly Ruger No1's and Marlins with a couple of bigbore bolt guns.If you are in the area I highly reccommend it for a days pleasure. Food was Bison burgers and bison brats with the associated potato salad and macaroni salad and pop. There should be more of these. The safety was impeccable and NO alcohol. Won by 16yr old girl firing her fathers 45/70 guide gun for first time. Good time had by ALL.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: zimhunter]
      #31862 - 24/05/05 09:07 AM

In reply to:

I recommend you hunt other big game in ZW or MO in the Zambezi River Valley before hunting elephant.



Huh???

The first thing I ever hunted in Africa was cow elephant and I would not have it any other way.

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: Elephant charges. [Re: larcher]
      #31886 - 24/05/05 01:51 PM

In reply to:

A real charge is slower than a Toy or a Land Rover in
2nd gear : say under 50 km/h (< 35mph).




Larcher

Wow, you have been in a Land Rover up to 50 km's while in second gear? It wasn't falling off a cliff was it? I had LandRoveritis when I was younger, and have had the blood, sweat and tears associated with owning one (all are/were SIIA). The movie "The God's Must be Crazy" hit the nail on the head regarding Land Rover ownership.

Eric, have you thought about putting the sled on a three to one or greater pully system? Or just turn the car around and pull the sled backwards to the start point so you do not have to mess about turning the entire unit. Just some suggestions.

Adam



--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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