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NitroXAdministrator
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6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm
      #306302 - 12/10/17 11:46 PM

The 6.5mm Creedmoor is all the fashion and rage at the moment in the shooting press and talk.

Why is it so much better than the very old 6.5x55mm? Please tell me or discuss.

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John aka NitroX

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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: NitroX]
      #306305 - 12/10/17 11:58 PM

Comparison of realistic ballistics?

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John aka NitroX

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: NitroX]
      #306307 - 13/10/17 12:13 AM

Quote:

The 6.5mm Creedmoor is all the fashion and rage at the moment in the shooting press and talk.

Why is it so much better than the very old 6.5x55mm? Please tell me or discuss.




O.K John..I will take the bait..

First of all, I don't think it is "at the moment" as its been growing and growing for the past 8 years or more...they were using this cartridge in all the range guns when I went to a long distance shooting school 2 1/2 yrs ago...claiming its virtues at that time of excellent accuracy and long range performance...yes, compared to the 6.5x55 that is a relatively short time, however with the advent of LRPR competitions increasing by leaps and bounds, the 6.5 Creedmoor will only grow in popularity as the years pass..or, some are actually now using the 6 Creedmoor ....

Both the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 x55 are great cartridges. The 6.5x55 outperforms the Creedmoor when loaded to higher pressures. 6.5x55 load data is very mild because of old mauser type actions that can't handle the pressure a modern bolt action can, but in a modern bolt action the Swede can be loaded a lot hotter and surpass the 6.5CM or 260. Only downside to the 6.5x55 is, I have been told, it needs a long action to bring out its full potential, and if you go with a long action, there are better rounds available (6.5-284 and 6.5-06 both greatly outperform the Swede). With all this in mind, I suggest going with the 6.5CM since it is a true short action round and performs very well out to 1000yds.

I personally don't know enough nor have I ever used a 6.5x55..and frankly probably never will..to me it doesn't make sense at this point with so many manufacturers now chambering for the Creedmoor,feel like I would be hamstringing myself in doing so...at least when I comes to the Long Range Precision Rifle scenarios...for hunting, different story and actually been eyeing a Sako in 6.5x55 ..really nice rifle...but, will have to wait till I get back from Turkey..

Think this gives good info on what is real or perceived to be the "greatness" of the 6.5 Creedmoor

http://www.range365.com/65-creedmoor-long-range-king

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DoubleD
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306309 - 13/10/17 12:20 AM

6.5 Creedmoor also has a better PR department behind it.

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: DoubleD]
      #306311 - 13/10/17 12:32 AM

Quote:

6.5 Creedmoor also has a better PR department behind it.




Exactly..

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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306312 - 13/10/17 01:36 AM

Thanks. But what are actually realistic ballistics?

I did a quick search and found these two comparisons:

6.5 Creedmoor 129 gr 2950 fps at muzzle

vs

6.5 x 55 2700 fps at muzzle.

Now maybe that 6.5x55 is loaded down?

I've never tested my 6.5x55 with 140 gr FMJ bullets in the chronograph so don't even know the velocity it is getting. Maybe a little project.

I am asking for (semi) serious reasons. I was looking at an article of a "tactical" rifle based on the 6.5 mmm Creedmoor. Thought it looked cool, should I get one? Then "no way", I already have a 6.5x55 Mauser M96, which is fantastically accurate. Original stepped but cut off military barrel. Now restocked in a crappy black plastic stock.

Now I don't have any "tactical" rifles, and we are denied by our masters having anything serious in semi auto, though amazingly pump actions are still accessible. But if I wanted a tacticool rifle, my 6.5x55 could fit the bill ... until I wise up again and decide spending money on such a project is silly. But to me, the 6.5x55 nakes quite an ideal choice.

Interesting I was looking at a video of a European sniper rifle concept by CZ earlier this year and was surprised at the time to see it was based on the 6.5x55.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: NitroX]
      #306313 - 13/10/17 02:19 AM

Quote:

Thanks. But what are actually realistic ballistics?

I did a quick search and found these two comparisons:

6.5 Creedmoor 129 gr 2950 fps at muzzle

vs

6.5 x 55 2700 fps at muzzle.

Now maybe that 6.5x55 is loaded down?

I've never tested my 6.5x55 with 140 gr FMJ bullets in the chronograph so don't even know the velocity it is getting. Maybe a little project.

I am asking for (semi) serious reasons. I was looking at an article of a "tactical" rifle based on the 6.5 mmm Creedmoor. Thought it looked cool, should I get one? Then "no way", I already have a 6.5x55 Mauser M96, which is fantastically accurate. Original stepped but cut off military barrel. Now restocked in a crappy black plastic stock.

Now I don't have any "tactical" rifles, and we are denied by our masters having anything serious in semi auto, though amazingly pump actions are still accessible. But if I wanted a tacticool rifle, my 6.5x55 could fit the bill ... until I wise up again and decide spending money on such a project is silly. But to me, the 6.5x55 nakes quite an ideal choice.

Interesting I was looking at a video of a European sniper rifle concept by CZ earlier this year and was surprised at the time to see it was based on the 6.5x55.




Case capacity per the Nosler manual for a 130 gr bullet is as follows:
52 grs for 6.5x55
47.1grs for 6.5 Creedmoor

Yes, I do believe the ballistics you show are loaded down..

Per what I have read up to this point..the creedmoor was designed for what it is
being primarily used for..target shooting...lets you load the bullets way out and still have a short-actioned rifle..as the article suggests in the previous post I put up..where as that is not possible with the 6.5x55..however now many are starting to also use the 6.5 Creemoor for hunting..every major rifle manufacturer has at least one and most have 3 or 4 models chambered for it..its low recoil, flat shooting, and the 6.5 has superior ballistics..kind of where the yin and yang meet..

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor in a Bergara --long range precision rifle..have not shot it that much yet..but what I have done with it, was extremely accurate..with factory ammo..let alone reloads...

Shot my 6 Creedmoor a couple weeks back that is in a Ruger Precision rifle..also very very accurate..with Hornady factory ammo--5 shots touching in a round cluster at 100yrds...

A newer range opened up about 30 minutes from where I live..targets to 1600 yards..plan to spend some time out there as time allows..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (13/10/17 02:53 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306316 - 13/10/17 03:56 AM

If loaded to the same pressures, the greater capacity case will show higher speeds.

In the States, the Swede is listed at 51,000PSI - 55,000PSI by Europe's CIP pezio.

In the States, the Creedmoor is listed at 52,000psi, but 63,000psi in Europe.

handy chart:

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

The text is also well worth absorbing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Daryl_S
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306317 - 13/10/17 04:07 AM

I ran 129gr. Hornady SP's at 2,960fps and

140gr. Hornady Corelockt at 2,840fps in my 22", 6.5x55 Model

96 - which appeared to have been unfired when I bought it.

Don't know what the pressures were, but did not hurt the

brass, nor cause any extraction problems - slick as can be.

These speeds are also slightly lower than my Daughter's .260

Remington, but it has a 26" bl. Lawrence barrel on it, in

comparison.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Daryl_S
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306330 - 13/10/17 06:16 AM

This video is a little elementary, but comparing the various 6.5's with 140's to the .300 mag with 180gr. all factory loads, I assume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6APMqMkikk

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306343 - 13/10/17 10:33 AM

Quote:

This video is a little elementary, but comparing the various 6.5's with 140's to the .300 mag with 180gr. all factory loads, I assume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6APMqMkikk




Saw similar info at the GUNWERKS shooting school I went to

Also Mr. Spoomer wrote an article for one of the mags on this as well..showing same info

The 6.5, as I have stated has the magic yin and yang ...as in BC and SD...

having said that, call me crazy, but when hunting elk I will choose the 300 over the 6.5 every time..have used both..30 cal smacks them considerably harder...

In MOST hunting conditions the superiority of the 6.5 regarding bc and sd will never be a factor, IMHO...I am considering most hunting conditions as to distance... those being 400 yards or less..probably more like 300 or less..


Ripp

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Daryl_S
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306347 - 13/10/17 11:12 AM

Absolutely - hitting and disabling a 'target' that is not a moose or elk, is an entirely different story.

--------------------
Daryl


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Homer
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306350 - 13/10/17 11:41 AM

G'Day Fella's,

+1 to most of the above.

I have a rifle chambered in the 6.5 Creedmore's predecessor, the 6.5x47 Lapua (2006).
Whilst it, like the Creedmore are impressive performers, in the same and modern rifle platform, ballisticaly (external and terminal), the 6.5x55 Swede beats the other two hands down.

The only thing the the Johnny-Come-Lately's may have on the 100+ year old Swede, is they will probably give you longer accurate barrel life.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
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SharpsNitro
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Homer]
      #306362 - 13/10/17 01:42 PM

An interesting spin on the 6.5x55 is the 6.5 Addiction. They bump the shoulder angle up and take a lot of the taper out of the case. The idea was for a round that used the most plentiful and cheap Lapua brass in a short action with mods to make it low maintenance (I.e. minimal to no trimming of brass). Yes the bullets are loaded deep in the neck but that doesn’t seem to matter.

https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/snip...ction-swedemoor


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Homer
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #306376 - 13/10/17 07:09 PM

LOL! I love the 6.5 "Swedemore" handle.

There used to be another variant, the 6.5 x55 SKAN.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Homer]
      #306385 - 14/10/17 03:38 AM

The 6.5x55 Improved Arch was an earlier IMP design on the 55mm case. IIRC had a 40degree shoulder and would easily make 2,908fps with 140's from 26" or longer barrels. Ackley listed a number of loads over 2,700fps with 160's using twists of 7, 9 and 10" - I assume Spitzer shaped Barnes. One load listed is a 200gr. Barnes bullet at 2,624fps form a 5 1/4" twist bl. That would be a long one.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Wayne59
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306394 - 14/10/17 07:40 AM

As it just so happens I took a Ruger Precision rifle to the range yesterday to wring out a load with a 142gr Serria Match king bullet. 39.6gr H4350 Fed small rifle match and Lupua brass was the first group from the barrel. This is only a three shot group fired from a rest But it measured .046. I took pics of the rifle and the group to post and just spent the last hour trying to post them. Looks like Photo Bucket (of shit)is not going to be our friend. Sorry, could not get it done.

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Wayne59]
      #306430 - 15/10/17 01:30 AM

Quote:

As it just so happens I took a Ruger Precision rifle to the range yesterday to wring out a load with a 142gr Serria Match king bullet. 39.6gr H4350 Fed small rifle match and Lupua brass was the first group from the barrel. This is only a three shot group fired from a rest But it measured .046. I took pics of the rifle and the group to post and just spent the last hour trying to post them. Looks like Photo Bucket (of shit)is not going to be our friend. Sorry, could not get it done.




Wayne
PM sent

Ripp

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Wayne59
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306458 - 15/10/17 10:29 PM

Ripp. I sent an email, did you not receive it.

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Wayne59]
      #306493 - 16/10/17 11:57 PM

Quote:

Ripp. I sent an email, did you not receive it.




Here you go:
DSC_0003 (640x427) by A Hoffart, on Flickr


DSC_0001 (640x427) by A Hoffart, on Flickr

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306494 - 17/10/17 12:04 AM

IN another related story..

https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/10/13/sierra-introduces-new-6-5mm-150-gr-matchking-bullet/

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Daryl_S
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306504 - 17/10/17 05:29 AM

Incredible, BC.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ripp
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306511 - 17/10/17 07:09 AM

Quote:

Incredible, BC.




Incredible bc and a hell of a group shot by Wayne above..especially considering its a factory Ruger..have had similar experience with the 6 Creedmoor..but not that good yet..only factory but easily under 1/2 inch 3 shot or more groups...

I did read on another site over the weekend that the Hornad ELD bullets really foul quickly..not sure if that is accurate info or not, but it was posted by several shooters..

As to 6.5x55--there is one so chambered at the local gun store..comes up really nice..open sights..may have to come home with me..

http://www.sako.fi/rifles/sako-85/85-bavarian

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (17/10/17 10:41 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: 6.5mm Creedmoor vs 6.5x55mm [Re: Ripp]
      #306542 - 17/10/17 05:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ripp. I sent an email, did you not receive it.




Here you go:
DSC_0003 (640x427) by A Hoffart, on Flickr


DSC_0001 (640x427) by A Hoffart, on Flickr




OK, there is one bullet hole where it has gone in sideways, wheres the rest.

That is tidy.


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