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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Matabele
.300 member


Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 225
Loc: Zimbabwe
Take Down Bolt Gun
      #303009 - 13/07/17 06:07 AM

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could point me to a book or resource detailing different take down options for a bolt gun, with some how-to info?

The screw off barrel with interrupted threads for a bayonet type lock up seems the most appealing so far, but I wouldnt mind seeing what other options have been used and what to look out for when doing one of these...if such a resource exists.

Thanks in advance!


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Dogfish858
.275 member


Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Western Canada
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Matabele]
      #303044 - 14/07/17 02:00 PM

I second this!

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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cordite
.300 member


Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 220
Loc: NW Montana
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Dogfish858]
      #303062 - 15/07/17 06:33 AM

The Mannlicher system, where the barrel and action separate from the stock with no tools needed,is the only one I have experience with. It works well.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2629
Loc: Colorado
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: cordite]
      #303063 - 15/07/17 07:37 AM

Seems to me that there was a lengthy thread on this subject some time ago.

The interrupted thread sounds good until you have to cut the slots in the thread of the action which must be hard to get just right.
Westley Richards had a version with lugs on the barrel shank to lock into the action similar to the way the bolt engages the action. That is a very neat way to mount a detachable barrel but I have heard of some getting loose over time.
That's probably why Jeffery decided to go with the hand tight barrel and a fixing screw on the side of the receiver ring.
Many take down Mannlichers are similar in concept to the way Jeffery did it except they often use the front action screw to hold the barrel tight.
There are many many variations of bolt gun take down systems.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 1138
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Huvius]
      #303098 - 16/07/17 07:56 PM

The interrupted thread system is good however it is normally done with an Acme or Trapezoidal thread form, which means that you must be able to get hold of an action which either already has that thread form cut in it or no thread at all and a hole bored in the breach and of the action no bigger than the threading diameter for one of these thread forms, then you can cut the thread yourself. Cutting the slots is not difficult as you just use a rotary table, however if the action is like a Mauser or Winchester (In other words not a cylinder all the way) you may have to make a special fixture to hold the action.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Matabele
.300 member


Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 225
Loc: Zimbabwe
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #303135 - 19/07/17 05:17 AM

Many thanks for the replies gents, appreciate it. I do think it's generally not a great idea from a durability/longevity point of view but for those heading off to far flung lands a few times in a hunting career...worth it's weight in gold.

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Rothhammer1
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 140
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Huvius]
      #303747 - 06/08/17 02:15 PM

The original Mannlicher Schoenauer (M1903, M1905, M1908, M1910, M1924/25) was available from Steyr in a 'takedown' version that was held in place by a slot at the tang, a spring loaded forend pin, and a lever just fore of the trigger guard.

To take down one simply removes the magazine, the forend pin, turns the lever and the barreled action lifts out cleanly.

Other systems were used by custom makers but this is how the original MS takedown system was built by Steyr.

I have an M1910 takedown thus configured with its original fitted case.

Edited by Rothhammer1 (06/08/17 02:24 PM)


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meticman
.224 member


Reged: 22/08/09
Posts: 30
Loc: calif
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Matabele]
      #304736 - 04/09/17 12:01 AM

German maker Reimer Johanssen may still make a take-down version of his rifles

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Lockingblock
.224 member


Reged: 29/08/17
Posts: 11
Loc: OK
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: meticman]
      #306197 - 10/10/17 02:19 PM

Quote:

German maker Reimer Johanssen may still make a take-down version of his rifles




He does indeed.


I asked similar questions to the OP and was directed here. His system is reportedly very very good and accounts for wear over time.

http://www.mayr-jagdwaffen.com/english/alois.php


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 26982
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Lockingblock]
      #306290 - 12/10/17 10:33 PM

I have long had an interest in takedown rifles. Starting about 1994 when it was still possible to carry one's rifle in norma; luggae on planes. I have a duffel bag with a bottom section which was supposed to be the place to carry a gun case. Might make the duffel too heavy for flights though. Irrelevant now, as the gun case must be checked in separately now anyway. But useful for carrying a rifle "in country", hidden away in luggage when in hotels, travelling etc. Unobstrusive.

Not an expert on takedowns. But from my research various options exist.

1. Break open rifles such as single shots, doubles, drillings etc are all "takedowns" of course.

But if talking about bolt actions.

2. My takedown system is the Mauser M03 system. A number and great variety of barrels and calibres ranging from .222 to .450 calibre. The stock is not a "takedown" in terms of the forend also being detachable. Bolt head and magazines are exchangable to faciltate different chamberings/cartridges. The Mauser QD mount system is relatively reliable as well, so having a scope for each barrel works reasonably well. I do test my rifle each time I re-set a different barrel and scope just in case. The impact hgas so far been acceptable for field use without adjusting the scope.

A great benefit of some takedowns is when the "collar" is not on the action but on the barrel so the bolt locks up in the collar on the barrel. Headspace issues with time are then avoided. The Mauser M03 has this as do most modern factory takedown systems.

The Mauser M03 is relatively affordable. The reason I went with this system was when I worked out how much a Mauser 98 system set would cost me, and it was tens of thousands of dollars compared to a much lesser cost for the Mauser M03.

3. Sauer and Blaser rifles. Many European makers eg Merkel etc also offer a form of takedown modern rifle. Not shortage of current makes to look at and consider.

Some of these systems mount the scope on the barrel, probably meaning any issues with changes of zeros are less likely when changing barrels.

Another system no longer in production but available second hand was the Mauser M66.

4. Dakota used to make a M98 variant takedown with a collar attached to the barrel and the Mauser style bolt locking up in the collar on the barrel.

Some other makers may also do this on current actions/barrels.

5. Interrupted thread Mauser 98 barrel takedown. When I purchased my Whoitworth Mauser 98 in .375 H&H Mag, I intended to have it converted to a takedown rifle. Discussed this with the selling gunshop and gunsmith before buying it. When it arrived, they "decided" it wasn't a good idea. Too much wear and tear on the threads they claimed. Turned out the rifle had other problems only identified later, ie the thread on the barrel was actually cut at an angle! And the stock was made to adjust for the angled barrel! A reason I could not get the scope to zero, ie always shooting way to the left. A different gunsmith made some mount bases to align to the barrel and not the action, and also had gaps in the middle of the bases to allow the open sights to be used when the QD scope was removed. So problem solved but not as a takedown. Use it like it is, and it works well even with the issues it otherwise had.

Basically in simplistic form the threads on the barrel are either "loosened" but not interrupted to allow the barrel to be more easily unscrewed by hand. Requring full twists of the entire thread. OR grooves are cut through the thread allowing a part turn and the barrel to be removed from the action. I assume complementary grooves are cut in the action threads. The forend is cut ahead of the action, and a switch to bolt locks it in place to prevent any unwanted twisting of the thread when the bolt is not pulled back.

This system does require only chambering/cartridge choices which are complementary as to bolt head and magazine compatibility. And this assumes any feeding issues do not eventuate from different calibre and projectiles shapes and sizes.

6. Another takedown system allowed the barrel action to be relatively easily removed from the stock. Some Holland & Holland rifles and Mannlichers utilise this system. Does not allow the changing of barrels of course. But does allow a rifle to be transported in a shorter case/luggage. Of course one can does this with any bolt action rifle, remove the barreled action from the stock and carry in dismantled form. How I did it in Zimbabwe in 1994. Does require the rifle to be resighted in.

I would think many bolt action rifles could be modified to this sort of takedown system without a lot of problems by a knowledgable gunsmith.

I was keen to have a New Zealand acquaintance make a Winchester M70 into a takedown system for me, back in 1993. He converted a number of M70's for clients, I remember one in 7mm Rem Mag, .338 Winchester and .458 Winchester. I was keen for one in that choice but a .416 Taylor-Chatfield as the larger choice. Never happened. These M70's used the interrupted thread system.

Lots of choices and ideas. I strongly do prefer the locking collar on the barrel system, as then there is no wear on the threads from being unscrewed and screwed again and again, and any resultant headspace issues. Some newer Mauser 98's variants DO do this, and would be my choice. But for the tens of thousands of dollars to buy them!

There would be other threads on the NitroExpress forums on takedowns, to search and read as well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 26982
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: Lockingblock]
      #306291 - 12/10/17 10:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

German maker Reimer Johanssen may still make a take-down version of his rifles




He does indeed.


I asked similar questions to the OP and was directed here. His system is reportedly very very good and accounts for wear over time.

http://www.mayr-jagdwaffen.com/english/alois.php






http://www.mayr-jagdwaffen.com/english/takedown.php

Using Mauser or similar actions I build true take down rifles using a simple but unique design. You can choose between 3 different action lenghts and left or right hand action.

There are no changes to the original receiver. The barrel connects to the receiver with the original threaded part. The difference being that the threads are cut to very close tolerances.

To separate the barrel the floorplate is opened and swung into forward position. This unlocks a conical bolt that connects the action to the barrel. A bronze bushing at the face of the barrel ensures a tight fit between receiver and barrel. Should after many years of use this fit become loose it could be easily repaired by replacing that bushing.

There is no change in the point of impact after taking down the rifle.!

Take Down rifles are very comfortable when travelling. The case is but 28 inches long and can easily be packed into a larger duffelbag. Custom gun cases can be provided.

Take down rifles can be made with exchange barrels in different calibres, here is a list of some useful combinations:

338 Win / 458 Lott
300 Win Mag / 375 H&H
300 Win Mag / 416 Rem
8 x 68 S / 9.5 x 66 ( 375 Westley Richards)
270 Win / 9.3 x 62
270 WSM / 325 WSM

Quote:

To separate the barrel the floorplate is opened and swung into forward position. This unlocks a conical bolt that connects the action to the barrel. A bronze bushing at the face of the barrel ensures a tight fit between receiver and barrel. Should after many years of use this fit become loose it could be easily repaired by replacing that bushing.




Interesting if this feature fixes the wear and tear issue over time. I was told the issue was with the thread itself?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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twobobbwana
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 211
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Take Down Bolt Gun [Re: NitroX]
      #306352 - 13/10/17 11:55 AM

Nitro,

When I build mine (Mauser 98, 300 Wby Mag full thread, forend fixed to barrel) it took some time to settle in and had to be adjusted however it no longer has any issues.

I am intending to replace the 300 Wby barrel with a integral featured barrel but more due to the fact that I didn't cut the barrel thread and am not entirely happy with the barrel/receiver fit.

It needs me to add the second barrel (375 Wby Mag)and build it a case.

I don't have any "thread wear/headspace" issues..........even after multiple takedowns and 600-700 shots. I can't imagine how many times you'd have to takedown and re-assemble one of these to affect a properly cut thread.

Next is a takedown Winchester 92 in 45 long Colt using the original (but full thread) Winchester format.

Takedowns/switch barrels are a great idea, especially for travelling.

I've carried mine many times in a duffel bag (taken down with barrel and forend up one end of a soft bag and buttstock/action/scope up the other and guncase folded in half)on airlines (checked baggage of course) without being required to use a separate gun case..........but times may have changed since.

Takedowns are like .375 H&H Magnums..........ever boy should own one at least once.


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