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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
      #305476 - 18/09/17 02:19 AM

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/15/handloading-the-65x54-mm-mannlicher-schoenauer/

"Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer

by John Barsness - Friday, May 15, 2015



It’s hard for most 21st-century hunters to imagine, but during the early 20th century the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine was among the most highly regarded hunting rifles on the planet. Among its famous fans were American scientist and explorer Roy Chapman Andrews, the supposed model for Indiana Jones; Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson, whose expeditions often lasted years; Charles Sheldon, the American naturalist and writer who hunted from Mexico to Alaska; and professional elephant hunter W.D.M. “Karamojo” Bell, who preferred his light “.256” carbine to any other rifle until he found the ammunition unreliable. But perhaps the most notorious use of the carbine was in Ernest Hemingway’s short story The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber, where the wife of safari client Macomber kills her husband with “the 6.5 Mannlicher” while shooting at a charging Cape buffalo.

The Mannlicher-Schoenauer action was supposedly designed by Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher, though the naming may have been partly honorary, since it strongly resembles the action of the German Gewehr 1888 “Commission” rifle. But the removable rotary magazine was definitely designed by Otto Schoenauer.

The rifle and cartridge first appeared at the 1900 World’s Fair in Paris, where the Austrian company that became today’s Steyr Arms offered actions to gunsmiths. The first complete rifles, however, were ordered by the Greek military in 1903, including a carbine with a 17.7" barrel, and shortly thereafter Steyr offered sporting rifles and a full-stocked carbine. (In German, full-stocked rifles are called Stutzens, but English speakers usually call them Mannlichers, due to the 1903 carbine.)

In 1930, the Greek government placed its last order, the actions stamped “Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1930 System.” Sporting rifle production ceased in 1939 with the onset of World War II, and after the war Steyr (like other Austrian and German arms factories) was shut down, not reopening until 1950.



Stoeger had been the American importer and, shortly after the war, it imported some 1930 System Greek rifles and carbines and had them rebuilt into sporters. A few years ago I traded into what may be one of these, though the Stoeger name doesn’t appear anywhere on the barreled action. With a 19" barrel, it isn’t quite as light as the famed 1903 carbines, but still weighs only 6 lbs., 11 ozs., and is nicely made, including the oak-leaf engraving on the butterknife bolt handle.

Unlike many older carbines fired with corrosive-primer ammunition, the bore is pristine, with a rifling twist of 1:9" and a bore 0.256" in diameter with 0.264" grooves. Included in the trade were a set of RCBS dies and 150 Norma cases.

The rimless 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (abbr. M-S) case has a head diameter of 0.452"-0.453", and the rotary magazine is very case-specific, one reason few Greek rifles were rebarreled to other chamberings. The most popular conversions were the 7x57 mm Mauser and the .257 Roberts, and the only other Mannlicher-Schoenauer I’ve owned was a Greek rifle rebarreled to .257 Roberts, with a cut-down military stock and a Lyman Alaskan scope in a Griffin & Howe side mount. It shot very well, and I sometimes regret selling it, but I have always suffered from a surfeit of .257s, if that’s possible.



The previous owner of my 6.5 carbine bought another cocking piece and had a gunsmith screw a Williams aperture sight on top, making the rifle more friendly to older eyes. He’d sighted it in with a handload using the 160-gr. Hornady Interlock round nose at around 2200 f.p.s., closely matching the original military load, and I used the same load when hunting that fall here in Montana. More hunting revealed the Hornady bullet to be erratic on impact, unlike most Hornady Interlocks. Sometimes it would break both shoulders of a deer and exit, and sometimes it wouldn’t reach the far ribs with a shot behind the shoulder.

There isn’t much modern, pressure-tested 6.5x54 mm M-S data, but what exists covers bullets from 85 grs. to 160 grs. Like the rifles for most early smokeless military cartridges using long, round-nosed bullets, the chamber is generously dimensioned. Seating a 160-gr. Hornady backwards in a case revealed a throat slightly over 1/2" long, one reason many 6.5x54 mm M-S handloaders report better accuracy with heavier bullets.



In this particular rifle, however, the 85-gr. Sierra hollow point shot pretty well, but the 100-gr. Nosler Partition shot the worst of any bullet. Perhaps a faster-burning propellant would “bump” it up enough to shoot better, a trick that’s worked in other rifles. Both those light bullets were seated just deep enough to hold them firmly, but the others were seated to an overall length of 2.95", just enough for the rounds to fit in the magazine. The surprise star of the show was the 129-gr. Hornady Interlock, averaging about 1" groups with a muzzle velocity of almost 2500 f.p.s. That is plenty for most hunting with the 6.5x54 mm M-S.

I’d heard the 160-gr. Sierra round nose (also discontinued) expanded more reliably than the Hornady, and I managed to scrounge up a couple of boxes thanks to friends. The Varget charge listed is Sierra’s “accuracy” load for this bullet, and while it did shoot well, the shots were strung vertically, indicating some tweaking of the powder might tighten groups.

Personally, however, for game larger than deer I would use the 140-gr. Nosler Partition or 156-gr. Norma Oryx, a bonded bullet, since I’ve used both with fine results from other smaller-capacity 6.5 mm cartridges. The only problem with the 156-gr. Oryx in the Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifle was due to its small, flat tip. The edge of the flat usually hung up on the edge of the chamber, but filing the edge of the flat solved the problem. All other loads fed fine from the rotary magazine.

Other handloaders have reported groove diameters from 0.266" to 0.269" in older rifles, though bores have always been 0.256". Some of that might be due to erosion caused by corrosive-primer ammunition, but an educated guess would be the extra groove depth was due to the same reason the grooves in the original Gewehr 98 8x57 mm Mauser rifles were deepened to 0.321" from the original 0.318": The cupro-nickel jackets used on many early bullets resulted in so much bore fouling that some barrels split or burst.

I’ve found many rifles with “too deep” grooves will shoot smaller-diameter bullets well, as long as the bore diameter is correct, including several .303 British rifles that group some .308" bullets accurately. But if an older 6.5x54 mm M-S doesn’t like modern 6.5 mm bullets, Hornady still lists a 160-gr., .267" bullet for the 6.5x52 mm, though like the 0.264" 160-gr. projectile, production has been temporarily suspended to produce higher-demand bullets. Another solution would be to paper-patch .264" bullets, which Ray Ordorica reported worked well in an article for the 1996 Gun Digest.



Ordorica also reported many American 6.5x54 mm M-S dies sized cases too short for Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles, by about 0.018". Some other handloaders have suggested this may have been some mix-up with 6.5x52 mm dies, since that chambering is essentially the same cartridge but about 0.018" shorter. Or maybe older dies were made to be adjustable for loading both rounds. The RCBS dies sized brass perfectly for my rifle when just contacting the shell-holder.

No American company makes factory ammunition for the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer anymore, but, with handloads, a classic carbine still makes for a fine hunting rifle.


WARNING: Technical data and information contained herein are intended to provide information based upon the limited experience of individuals under specific conditions and circumstances. They do not detail the comprehensive training, procedures, techniques and safety precautions that are absolutely necessary to properly carry on similar activity. READ THE NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER ON THE CONTENTS PAGE OF THIS MAGAZINE. ALWAYS CONSULT COMPREHENSIVE REFERENCE MANUALS AND BULLETINS OF PROPER TRAINING REQUIREMENTS, PROCEDURES, TECHNIQUES AND SAFETY PRECAUTIONS BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANY SIMILAR ACTIVITIES."

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Viking338
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Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 480
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: lancaster]
      #305483 - 18/09/17 03:41 AM

Thanks for putting that up mate, it was a very interesting read. Do love all the classic old rifles and calibres that just get the job done with out any fuss.

Steve

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Viking338]
      #305497 - 18/09/17 01:25 PM

Great Post Lancaster....thank you

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: paradox_]
      #305544 - 20/09/17 12:36 AM

Thanks Lancaster, very interesting read. I'd be interested to know who, other than M-S, made factory rifles in this caliber (if anyone). Would it work in a Kurz mauser action? I have visions of some very pretty sporting rifles.....

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3972
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: mckinney]
      #305555 - 20/09/17 06:05 AM

Good to see you got you M-S to shoot & well so it seems Lancaster!
Great to archive reloading data for unusual/rare calibres; it is a true labour of love & those individuals like yourself who do so, only do it for future generations.
Well done mate

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: 93x64mm]
      #305650 - 23/09/17 07:43 AM

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloadin...ber-reload-data

Some of you may have come across this reloading data before .. it may provide a useful start if you haven't, or an alternative may be to use Quickload data & even ' steves pages'

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: deeangeo]
      #305653 - 23/09/17 01:21 PM

Thanks Deeangeo, very helpful indeed.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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deeangeo
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Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #305698 - 24/09/17 05:57 PM

I don't have QL data for the 160gn Hornady RN bullet, but I have tested it to 39gns of IMR4350
with no pressure signs. However, the barrel on my MSch M1903 is shot out so nothing useful was gained from any of the loads I tested. Including those below with 140gn SST bullets.
The new Kreiger barrel in eight months time should tell a completely different story.

Attached is the 'Steves Pages' link: http://stevespages.com/264_8_160.html

Here is what the 140 SST looks like with a couple of different IMR powders. If there are any others let me know.

Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 70 26.40 2121 1399 29329 7314 99.5 1.563
-18.0 72 27.06 2166 1458 31082 7455 99.8 1.529
-16.0 74 27.72 2209 1518 32921 7585 99.9 1.496
-14.0 75 28.38 2253 1577 34853 7701 100.0 1.463
-12.0 77 29.04 2295 1638 36883 7809 100.0 1.432
-10.0 79 29.70 2337 1698 39016 7916 100.0 1.395
-08.0 81 30.36 2379 1759 41255 8021 100.0 1.359
-06.0 82 31.02 2420 1820 43605 8125 100.0 1.325
-04.0 84 31.68 2460 1881 46073 8227 100.0 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 86 32.34 2500 1943 48663 8328 100.0 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 88 33.00 2540 2005 51382 8427 100.0 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 89 33.66 2579 2067 54236 8524 100.0 1.201 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 91 34.32 2618 2130 57232 8620 100.0 1.172 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 93 34.98 2656 2194 60378 8714 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 95 35.64 2695 2257 63682 8807 100.0 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 96 36.30 2733 2321 67153 8897 100.0 1.094 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 88 33.00 2609 2116 60806 8158 100.0 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 88 33.00 2434 1841 41937 8818 100.0 1.337


Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 72 27.44 2050 1306 28626 7094 93.3 1.583
-18.0 74 28.13 2096 1365 30284 7298 94.2 1.547
-16.0 76 28.81 2141 1425 32028 7497 95.0 1.513
-14.0 77 29.50 2186 1486 33863 7689 95.8 1.479
-12.0 79 30.18 2231 1548 35793 7874 96.5 1.446
-10.0 81 30.87 2276 1611 37823 8052 97.2 1.413
-08.0 83 31.56 2321 1675 39957 8222 97.8 1.376
-06.0 85 32.24 2365 1739 42201 8384 98.3 1.340
-04.0 86 32.93 2409 1805 44561 8537 98.7 1.306
-02.0 88 33.61 2453 1871 47043 8681 99.1 1.274 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 90 34.30 2497 1938 49654 8815 99.4 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 92 34.99 2540 2005 52402 8939 99.7 1.212 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 94 35.67 2583 2074 55293 9053 99.8 1.183 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 95 36.36 2625 2143 58337 9156 100.0 1.154 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 97 37.04 2667 2212 61543 9249 100.0 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 99 37.73 2709 2282 64921 9332 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 90 34.30 2589 2084 57828 8547 100.0 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 90 34.30 2368 1743 41585 8723 95.3 1.346


Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 70 28.32 2116 1391 29509 7736 94.4 1.567
-18.0 72 29.03 2163 1455 31269 7954 95.3 1.543
-16.0 74 29.74 2211 1520 33123 8163 96.1 1.504
-14.0 76 30.44 2258 1586 35075 8365 96.8 1.468
-12.0 77 31.15 2306 1652 37132 8557 97.5 1.431
-10.0 79 31.86 2352 1720 39297 8741 98.0 1.392
-08.0 81 32.57 2399 1789 41576 8914 98.6 1.355
-06.0 83 33.28 2445 1859 43975 9078 99.0 1.319
-04.0 84 33.98 2491 1929 46501 9230 99.3 1.285 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 86 34.69 2537 2000 49160 9371 99.6 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 88 35.40 2582 2072 51960 9499 99.8 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 90 36.11 2627 2145 54909 9616 99.9 1.190 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 91 36.82 2671 2218 58015 9720 100.0 1.160 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 93 37.52 2715 2291 61289 9815 100.0 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 95 38.23 2758 2365 64741 9907 100.0 1.104 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 97 38.94 2802 2440 68382 9998 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 88 35.40 2677 2228 61172 9160 100.0 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 88 35.40 2444 1857 42872 9499 96.3 1.330

Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4320

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 72 28.72 2097 1367 29090 7411 94.0 1.548
-18.0 74 29.44 2144 1429 30845 7623 94.9 1.512
-16.0 76 30.16 2191 1493 32698 7827 95.7 1.478
-14.0 78 30.87 2238 1557 34655 8024 96.5 1.443
-12.0 80 31.59 2285 1623 36724 8213 97.2 1.410
-10.0 81 32.31 2332 1690 38910 8392 97.8 1.374
-08.0 83 33.03 2378 1758 41221 8561 98.4 1.338
-06.0 85 33.75 2424 1826 43664 8721 98.8 1.302
-04.0 87 34.46 2470 1896 46247 8869 99.2 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 89 35.18 2515 1967 48983 9006 99.5 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 91 35.90 2560 2038 51865 9131 99.8 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 92 36.62 2605 2110 54894 9244 99.9 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 94 37.34 2650 2182 58093 9343 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 96 38.05 2694 2256 61476 9431 100.0 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 98 38.77 2737 2330 65057 9516 100.0 1.089 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 100 39.49 2781 2404 68848 9598 100.0 1.063 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 91 35.90 2653 2188 60978 8810 100.0 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 91 35.90 2427 1831 42952 9102 96.1 1.306


Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4007 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 73 30.00 2042 1296 28676 7269 87.0 1.607
-18.0 75 30.75 2091 1360 30446 7508 88.2 1.565
-16.0 77 31.50 2141 1425 32319 7743 89.3 1.525
-14.0 79 32.25 2190 1491 34302 7974 90.4 1.486
-12.0 81 33.00 2239 1559 36402 8200 91.4 1.448
-10.0 83 33.75 2289 1629 38625 8420 92.4 1.408
-08.0 84 34.50 2338 1699 40980 8635 93.3 1.368
-06.0 86 35.25 2387 1772 43475 8842 94.2 1.330
-04.0 88 36.00 2437 1846 46120 9043 95.0 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 90 36.75 2486 1921 48924 9235 95.8 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 37.50 2535 1998 51900 9418 96.5 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 94 38.25 2584 2076 55059 9593 97.1 1.190 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 95 39.00 2633 2156 58415 9757 97.7 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 97 39.75 2682 2237 61983 9912 98.2 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 99 40.50 2731 2319 65781 10055 98.6 1.098 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 101 41.25 2780 2402 69827 10186 99.0 1.069 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 37.50 2653 2188 60817 9433 99.6 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 37.50 2384 1767 43208 9016 90.0 1.332


Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 31.60 2066 1326 26674 7750 90.8 1.628
-18.0 84 32.39 2117 1393 28437 7996 92.0 1.586
-16.0 86 33.18 2168 1461 30321 8235 93.1 1.545
-14.0 88 33.97 2219 1531 32336 8465 94.1 1.506
-12.0 90 34.76 2271 1603 34475 8686 95.1 1.467
-10.0 92 35.55 2322 1676 36731 8896 96.0 1.429
-08.0 94 36.34 2373 1751 39121 9095 96.8 1.388
-06.0 96 37.13 2425 1827 41667 9283 97.5 1.347
-04.0 98 37.92 2476 1905 44379 9457 98.1 1.308
-02.0 100 38.71 2526 1984 47271 9618 98.7 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 39.50 2577 2064 50354 9764 99.1 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 40.29 2627 2146 53645 9895 99.5 1.199 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 41.08 2678 2229 57158 10010 99.7 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 41.87 2727 2313 60913 10108 99.9 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 110 42.66 2777 2397 64930 10190 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 43.45 2826 2483 69231 10256 100.0 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 39.50 2695 2258 60975 9427 100.0 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 39.50 2411 1807 40089 9578 93.7 1.359


Cartridge : 6.5 x 54 Mannl. Schoen.
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SST 26302
Useable Case Capaci: 43.745 grain H2O = 2.840 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.063 inch = 77.80 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 31.44 2058 1317 28296 7365 86.6 1.587
-18.0 80 32.23 2108 1381 30071 7612 87.8 1.546
-16.0 82 33.01 2157 1447 31954 7856 89.0 1.506
-14.0 84 33.80 2207 1514 33951 8094 90.1 1.468
-12.0 86 34.58 2257 1584 36072 8328 91.2 1.430
-10.0 88 35.37 2307 1654 38325 8555 92.2 1.390
-08.0 90 36.16 2357 1727 40721 8775 93.2 1.351
-06.0 92 36.94 2407 1801 43267 8988 94.1 1.314
-04.0 94 37.73 2457 1876 45962 9193 95.0 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 38.51 2507 1953 48806 9389 95.7 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 39.30 2557 2032 51826 9575 96.5 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 100 40.09 2606 2112 55039 9751 97.1 1.176 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 40.87 2656 2193 58460 9916 97.7 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 104 41.66 2706 2276 62105 10070 98.2 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 106 42.44 2756 2361 65991 10211 98.7 1.085 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 108 43.23 2805 2446 70140 10339 99.1 1.056 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 39.30 2678 2229 61163 9578 99.7 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 39.30 2400 1791 42740 9145 89.7 1.316

Edited by deeangeo (24/09/17 06:15 PM)

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Rule303
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: lancaster]
      #305700 - 24/09/17 08:20 PM

Lancaster I do not know if I should thank you or curse you for putting up this thread. I have often talked myself out of looking for a MS 6.5X54 and now I find myself talking myself into tracking one down.

A very good article.

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Tom_H
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Rule303]
      #305710 - 25/09/17 01:17 PM

Another bullet to add to the mix. PPU caries a 159gr rn. Seems to shoot well in my 6.5x53r sporter.

I have been using Reloader 15 and am pretty happy with the results.

Tom

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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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deeangeo
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Rule303]
      #305712 - 25/09/17 03:31 PM

Quote:

Lancaster I do not know if I should thank you or curse you for putting up this thread. I have often talked myself out of looking for a MS 6.5X54 and now I find myself talking myself into tracking one down.

A very good article.



Doesn't make you a bad person Rule303, just shows good taste.
These are superb rifles, the trick is finding one in great condition that you can afford.
Often due to age, use, poor conditions etc. the barrel's not in great shape, or the stock may be cracked at the wrist.
Find a good one though and you will certainly smile.

I have a M1903 'Takedown' but haven't got a stutzen yet; I'm looking though!
Good hunting.

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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HistoricBore
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: deeangeo]
      #305752 - 27/09/17 03:22 AM

In my 1939 vintage Stutzen I use Vihtavuori N140 powder to very good effect. I find 38.0 grains is fine with the Sierra 140 grain Match King bullet (for targets) and I also have some ex-Canadian Dominion 160 grain soft nose bullets to try. These came as loaded ammunition, but the powder had completely broken down and were completely erratic, so I pulled the bullets to reuse them sometime. The 140 grain bullets do not feed that well, but the longer ones work perfectly, of course.

The set trigger takes some getting used to; I have managed to get the pull weight UP to about 8 ounces...

HB

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deeangeo
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: HistoricBore]
      #305753 - 27/09/17 04:35 AM

Each to their own of course, but all the Mannlichers I have/had, including a wonderful MSch M1903 stutzen, are with set triggers.
That is, except my current M1903 Takedown.
The trigger is a pig!
But when it's rebarrelled early next year, work on the trigger begins too. So by next season I'll have a really nice shootable rifle.
Roll on ..
However, I really like double set triggers, absolutely brilliant in use when hunting.
Cheers

Edited by deeangeo (27/09/17 06:41 AM)

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: deeangeo]
      #305755 - 27/09/17 06:23 AM

D, strange that you should have problems with the single trigger. I have several with with single trigger and they are unbelievably crisp with no creep. Non Mannlicher people who shoot them are amazed that 100 year old guns can have such good trigger pulls and I have never worked on them, they are as they were from the factory. I was under the impression that they were pretty well all like that. Other blokes I shoot with that have single trigger Mannlichers all say the same thing. Maybe there is a problem with yours or else someone has dicked with it before you owned it.

Waidmannsheil.

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deeangeo
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #305756 - 27/09/17 06:39 AM

It's quite possible that someone has messed about with the rifle Waidmannsheil.
The trigger is not like any other MSch I ever came across, lots of creep, so pretty poor.
I have stripped it right down to have a look & there's a definite 'sloping ridge' right where the sear should release the (bolt) firing pin.
It certainly needs sorting out, but & it's a big but, it means taking metal off! So needs very careful attention.

I will make this rifle good to hunt with though, so it's not going to be a rush job.
Cheers, d

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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Louis
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: deeangeo]
      #305761 - 27/09/17 02:35 PM

Deeangeo, I agree with Waidsmannsheil. As most of us I shoot both single and double-trigger MS rifles and I find the single trigger such smooth to operate that it can compare to double trigger. I think you should buy a low priced MS in poor condition and use it for space parts, including your non working trigger; unless of course you can find a single trigger for sale. Regards. Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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deeangeo
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Louis]
      #305762 - 27/09/17 04:03 PM

Sorry, I appear to have unintensionally hi-jacked this thread. Please accept my apology.

That's a good idea Louis.
Churning it over in my head, I was set to dismantle the trigger and have one copied (Make a duplicate) in our engineering workshop (CNC)
It's easy to disassemble and a straightforward machining project.
Might well do both things to resolve the issue.

If it were possible, I'd like to fit double set triggers to my takedown M1903, but I don't think it's possible to make the conversion.
Does anyone know otherwise?
Cheers, d.

Edited by deeangeo (27/09/17 05:37 PM)

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Louis
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: deeangeo]
      #305763 - 27/09/17 05:37 PM

Deeangeo

I don't know about converting a single-trigger takedown into a double-triggered one; that's certainly possible as the trigger-bolt interface should be the same in both models however there should be some adjustment work for fitting the double trigger into a space initially not dimensioned for this purpose.

In case you would be interested, the outdoor activities French website Naturabuy currently displays two MS triggers for sale:
- Original double-trigger at http://www.naturabuy.fr/VENDU-PAR-JEPERC...em-3531993.html . I did not buy it as I already have a spare one in my spare parts box.
- Single trigger http://www.naturabuy.fr/Detente-directe-echappement-Mannlicher-Schonauer-item-3860207.html ; not an original model but a modern conversion for people using their double-triggered MS for driven hunt and wanting to swift from double to single trigger as German 'stetchers' are not designed for instinctive shooting in driven hunts. I cannot comment on this modern trigger as I have not seen it and do not know anybody who uses it.

Regards.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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deeangeo
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Posts: 207
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Re: Handloading the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer [Re: Louis]
      #305764 - 27/09/17 05:40 PM

Thanks for the info Louis, I'll take a look.
You're probably correct in that the double set trigger dimensionally will not fit into the stock.
I haven't yet taken a serius look at that.
Cheers, d

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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