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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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jro45
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338 RUM shooting the RN bullets
      #30466 - 04/05/05 12:57 AM

I was wondering if anybody has shot the 338 cal 250gr Round Nose bullets at fast FPS and if they did, how did the RN bullets react. Was thinking about trying them at fast FPS.
By fast I mean 2900 fps to over 3000 fps.

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DPhillips
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #30530 - 05/05/05 03:14 AM

I'm a big fan of using bullets in the velocity range they were designed for. I don't think there is a .338" round nose soft point bullet made to hold together at those velocities. I could be wrong, though. If you find one that you want to use, contact the manufacturer and see what the design velocity range is.

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: DPhillips]
      #30583 - 05/05/05 10:39 PM

DPhillips, I have some from Hornady I've shot at 2750 fps
and they seem to all want to go to the same hole on target paper. I don't know how they or if they will hold up at the fps I said for hunting. I'll see if I can find an E-mail address for Hornady.

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DPhillips
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #30615 - 06/05/05 05:58 AM

QC is hard enough to control for most companies when everything goes right. If they make a bullet that is supposed to work in a designated velocity range and the customer pushes it a lot faster, the results are typcially poor. The Hornady may be fine at the velocity you want to push it, I don't know. I would speak to someone at their shop before I hunting with it, though.

It may shoot little groups, but may not able to handle hitting bone at those speeds. I'd take a bullet designed to operate at those speeds and a little less accurate than vice-versa for a hunting bullet.

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: DPhillips]
      #30672 - 07/05/05 02:47 AM

I looked it up on Hornadys web sight and it said that the BC was good for all velocitys. But did not say what the velocitys were. So I wrote Hornady a letter. I've been shooting for over 40 years.Never had any problems til they came out with more powerful rifles and I got 2 or 3.

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DPhillips
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #30685 - 07/05/05 07:14 AM

By BC, I'm assuming they are meaning Ballistic Coefficient, and that it does not change with velocity is not exactly true. What you need to find out is the what speed the bullet was constructed for. Bullet Construction has its designed velocity range. If the bullet is pushed too slow, it won't expand. Pushed too fast and it come apart and fail to penetrate. Those round nose bullets have a lot of lead exposed on the tips and are typically designed for lower velocity than a spitzer. My guess is the range is in the neighborhood of 1500-2500 fps. That's a guess, though. Hornady would know for sure.

I suspect these bullets were designed for the 338 Win Mag and should operate in that velocity class. Tack on another few hundred fps and the design parameters are well exceeded. Throw in all the variables of hide, bone, muscle or no bone and little muscle, and it just makes it tough for one bullet to do all things.

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: DPhillips]
      #30718 - 08/05/05 03:37 AM

I have hunted Black Bear before with my 300 Win Mag shooting 220gr R.N. bullets at 2700 FPS and got it cleared thru Serria because they were Serria bullets. You know what Serria said "The round nose bullet will not mushroom and will go streight thru the Bear at those FPS. Nothing about it comeing apart. So I used them. I was thinking maybe the Hornady 250gr R.N. bullet would do the same. Will find out
soon I hope.

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atkinson6
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #30747 - 08/05/05 02:38 PM

If I were you an wanted a big RN bullet then I would use a 300 gr. RN Woodleigh in the 338 you have..

I have shot a lot of stuff with it in my 338 Win. and it it a bit tough but I like that as I shoot buffalo with it, so I am sure it would work in your 338 and expand to the size of a half dollar and hold together, but you would get less penitration...

The 250 Gr. Nosler hardly expands in my .338 unless its on something really big, so it should be perfect in your bigger .338...

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: atkinson6]
      #30769 - 09/05/05 03:30 AM

atkinson6, If I shoot the 300 gr bullet in my 338 I would only be able to get 2750 fps with those 300gr bullets. What I would like to know is if these 250 gr R.N.bullets hold up at 2900fps to 3000fps and over. So I have written a letter to Hornady about this. I was thinking about loading some at those fps. I don't know if I would use them for hunting or not, it's all what Hornady says.

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JTOMLINSON
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #30951 - 12/05/05 06:12 PM

I have had great accuracy success with the Hornady round nosed 250 sp in my .330 Dakota ahead of 83-84 grains of H-4831, I have not clocked this load but imagine it to be in the region of 2800 plus.

This load is the most accurate for my rifle and will place several consecutive shots under the inch at 100 yards, something spitzer bullets will not do.

to date use has been confined to wild boar in Hungary (I live in the U.K) and all fell to a single shot, accepting that a single shot kill is a success in bullet performance terms, all the bullets have broken up and caused massive internal damage, on the largest boars no exit has resulted, but even on piglets weighing no more than 40-50 lbs, set up of the bullet has been extreme.

I await a supply of the same weight and profile bullet by Woodleigh, in theory at least this should have all the vitures of the Hornady with the added advantage of a bonded construction.

Jonathan Tomlinson
yorks
England

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #30952 - 12/05/05 07:09 PM


JTOMLINSON

"I await a supply of the same weight and profile bullet by Woodleigh, in theory at least this should have
all the vitures of the Hornady with the added advantage of a bonded construction."

"I have not clocked this load but imagine it to be in the region of 2800 plus."

WHICH IS 300fps higher than the Recommended Impact Velocity.

500 Nitro

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31079 - 14/05/05 03:34 AM

I just got off the phone with Hornady's Tectnician, he said the speed for the 338 cal. 250gr. round nose bullet was 2400fps to 3000 fps and will brake bones. I'm gonna run a test on those R.N. bullets at 3000 fps. Ill shoot a couple into a box of phone books and see what happens this summer.

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31083 - 14/05/05 05:36 AM


Phone books are not a good test medium for bullets.

500 Nitro

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31085 - 14/05/05 05:58 AM

500NITRO
I've done this before to see how far a bullet can go and what kind of shape the bullet gets in. I'm talking about about 2' of phone books. I know the bullet won't make it to the end. But then again it might. I shot a 416 into the phone books and it went all the threw, thats the only bullet i've seen go all the threw.

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31090 - 14/05/05 07:20 AM

jro45

I should have expanded my post.

Phone books, Wet or dry are not a good test medium for bullets, either to see how far they go
or to see what they look like.

They are not representative of animals bone or flesh, regardless of what you put in front, in the middle
or at the back (IE where people put a rubber sheet at the front)

Phone books are much better at holding a bullet together than the soft flesh of an animal where
bits of the bullet (if that is the case) tend to go in all directions.

Hunting Bullets should be tested on animals etc for the specific task of recoveries
so you can see what happens with various shots:- ie
- Shoulder BLADE shot
- Shoulder JOINT shot
- Rear end "Texas Heart" shot so it hits the spine
- Neck Shot so it hits the spine
- 5th rib to far Shoulder shot

If all the above are done at various velocities, you get a very good indication
of what a bullet is doing and what it's Impact Parameters are.

Your thoughts ?

500 Nitro

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31138 - 14/05/05 11:59 PM

500Nitro
I done this before. I am aware that this isn't an animal.
But I don't have anything better to test with. What I figure is if a bullet can make it to a certain point, which a lot of bullets come apart, brake up,& turn early and exit the books,it would be a good bullet. A round nose bullet like this should go deep. Then again it might mush room early and ruin everthing. Hornady said it can brake bones.I'd think after braking a bone it would probably distroy the bullet.
I shot a boar with my 7 rem mag. 160gr partition, and that bullet broke bone and distroyed heart with peases of the bullet.

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DPhillips
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31187 - 15/05/05 12:37 PM

You don't have to convince us. Sounds like you are satisfied, so try 'em out. I hope they do hold together. Not exactly sure why you are wanting to shoot the round nose bullets when there are so many top quality spitzers out there.

Hornady must have redesigned their 250's for the Rummy. The Winchester version won't push the 250 to 3000 fps, which was the cartridge Hornady had originally made their .338 bullets for.

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31203 - 15/05/05 03:56 PM

jro45

I fully understand that it is hard to test bullets on animals but I am afraid I have to disagree
with your comment that "What I figure is if a bullet can make it to a certain point, which a lot of bullets come apart,
brake up,& turn early and exit the books,it would be a good bullet. A round nose bullet like this should go deep.
Then again it might mush room early and ruin everthing."

Round noses generally "set up" and mushroom faster than Pointed bullets. They also tend to "hit" harder on animals
than pointed bullets. A bullet that sets up earlier generally deoesn't penetrate as far (increased resistenace etc etc),
however if you them go up in bullet weight for that calibre - or as I say and do - use a heavy for calibre bullet -
then this tends to compensate the RN opneing up earlier.

I can't comment on Hornady.

Regarding your comment " I shot a boar with my 7 rem mag. 160gr partition,
and that bullet broke bone and distroyed heart with peases of the bullet."

If you only rely on "pieces of bullet" (often called seconday fragmentation) to
penetrate and hit / fatally damage a vital organ, then I think you will
lose game over your huting life.

You have NO control over where pieces of bullet / seconday fragmentation
goes (direction, distance etc) so you cannot rely on this.

I do not have a problem with Partitions, I just think that better bullets are available.
The Partition that is left (ie the rear pill) does penentrate a long way, however
IMHO, I prefer a higher weight WITH petals that causes greater shock and a much bigger
wound channel that is less likely to close up.

Like Dphilips asked, why do you want to use RN. I don't have a problem with someone using RN
bullets as I use RN in heavy weights when shooting buffalo etc but that is because I like RN and
take shots from Angles others wouldn't. The extra
weight of the bullet and hard hitting of the RN works in my favour.

However if Longer shots are required you are limited by the trajectory.

Anyway, look forward to your reply.

500 Nitro

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31225 - 16/05/05 01:39 AM

500Nitro,
I said about the partition braking bone and braking up in reference to the 250gr 338 R.N. that was talked about
braking bone and that second fragmentation killing the boar.
I will find out how far the R.N. bullet will go Tuesday. Me and my friend will do this test at the range. I don't shoot Barnes bullets they make it harder to clean your rifle. They do have an excellent bullet tho, but its not for me.
I'll make out without Barnes.
The R.N. bullets hit hard and I hope go deep enought. I shoot partitions also and some other Hornady bullets for game around here. I'm going to Canada soon for Black Bear.
I'll be using these R.N. bullets at 2730 fps. I've never depended on the second fragmentation to kill any animal but it happens.

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31377 - 18/05/05 07:28 AM

500Nitro
I fired two of those 250gr R.N. bullets at the phone books
about 14" long at 3000fps. The first one only made it about 5" the second one made it all the way and came out in about
a 1" hole so I guess it mushroomed. Couldn't find it. It kept on going.
I had a double set of phone books used one for each shot.
So I would think for sure that these R.N. bullets will brake bones and would go at least 14" deep in mussel.

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31383 - 18/05/05 08:01 AM

jro45,

Sorry, but 5" or even 14" of penetration is not enough IMHO.

I can't remeber what you are hunting but
An Angling shot from one side of a large animal, entering about 5th
rib and angling towards the heart/lung/shoulder is not guaranteed
of making it or doing the damaged to the shoulder bone / joint (NOT Blade)
when it gets there.

Also, what about a follow up shot from the rear - 14" is not going to take out
the hip, penetrate the gut and get though the diaprham to the vitals.

Anyway, it's your hunt so I'll leave it to you.

500 Nitro

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: 500Nitro]
      #31384 - 18/05/05 08:51 AM

Black Bear is what I'm hunting and I'm sure they will take a Black Bear.

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jro45
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31385 - 18/05/05 09:00 AM

If I were hunting a large animal I would use a larger caliber rifle with more power behind the larger bullet. I just want to kill a black bear maybe 400 lbs. Some people use the 25/06 at least I'm using a 338 RUM downloaded. Thanks for the information as where to shoot large game

Edited by jro45 (18/05/05 09:04 AM)

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500Nitro
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Re: 338 RUM shooting the RN bullets [Re: jro45]
      #31411 - 18/05/05 02:27 PM


jro45,

Re "Thanks for the information as where to shoot large game "

Just to clarify my statement about the 5th rib. I am generally talking about larger DG
which is my case consists of Water Buffalo.

On an UNWOUNDED animal, I won't start with a Texas Heart shot - the most I will do
from the rear is "If I can see the 5th rib and everything else is good (ie, I'm feeling good with the shot),
I'll take it as I know I can make the shot AND that I am using enough gun but more importantly bullet
to get through to the vitals.

On a WOUNDED animal, I'll shot it from any angle as I generally have softs then solids
and once it's wounded, I generally keep shooting until it's dead.

Next time you scope some larger game, deer included (you can even do it on cows), have a look as it
quite easy to see once you know what to look for.

Anyway, hope this helps.

500 Nitro

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