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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Targets shot with my double
      #30375 - 02/05/05 05:19 AM

Here are a couple of targets I shot with my Searcy 500 NE today. The orange target is 2 shots at 50 yards using 570 grain GS Custom FN solid bullets and 108.0 grains IMR4831, F215 primers.

The black target is 2 shots at 50 yards using 570 grain Woodleigh softs over 110.0 grains IMR 4831.

[image]http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/500grains/?action=view&current=SearcyGSCUSTOMFN.jpg[/image]

[image]http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/500grains/?action=view&current=SearcyWOODSOFT.jpg[/image]


http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/500grains/?action=view&current=SearcyGSCUSTOMFN.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/500grains/?action=view&current=SearcyWOODSOFT.jpg

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Targets [Re: 500grains]
      #30386 - 02/05/05 09:27 AM

Trying the photos again:

1. Searcy .500 NE, 110 grains IMR 4831, 570 Woodleigh soft.



2. Searcy .500 NE, 108.0 grains IMR4831, 570 GS Custom FN.

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wadeb
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Reged: 11/11/04
Posts: 40
Loc: Oregon, USA
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: 500grains]
      #30674 - 07/05/05 03:06 AM

500grains, those are very good groups especially the 108grain one. It would be interesting if you could do a six shot group just to see what the average goup size would be. As I said before, my rifle seems to like 105 grains of IMR-4831. I fired four solids into a 1.75" group. I had a total of eitht softs and the four solids in a 3" group. I am happy with that, but the only thing that I now have to get use to is the loss of velocity. The solids are doing about 2030 and the softs are doing about 2010. If I was closer to the 2050 mark, I would be a little more happier. I might chat to Butch because it was suppose to be regulated at 110 grains like yours.

I look forward to hearing from you.

wadeb

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: wadeb]
      #30686 - 07/05/05 07:21 AM

wadeb,
Do not worry about the 20 to 40 fps difference in velocity.
Just take two steps closer to the animal RIGHT before you shoot.
Sorry could not resist.
I seriousley doubt any buff or elephant will ever know the difference.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: wadeb]
      #30691 - 07/05/05 07:37 AM

wadeb

Well done. I would agree with the other poster, don't worry about 40 fps,
it will not make any difference and the powder variations you will get will
be up to 50fps anyway.

I would concentrate on duplicaing this target at 50 and 100 yards with
4 - 8 shots AND
getting the FMJ bullets shooting to the same POI as the RN bullets at both ranges.

IMHO, you need to shoot 4 shots.

Anyway, well done.

500 Nitro

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wadeb
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Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #30697 - 07/05/05 11:25 AM

Thanks guys, you are right. That loss of speed is really nothing at the end of the day. For some reason I hate the thought of being so close to 2000fps. I'll get over it.
The old buffalo really won't know the difference as you say.

.500grains, I agree that four to six shots is perfect to check your grouping to at least hopefully rule out shooters error or luck, and give you a more realistic group.

wadeb

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: 500grains]
      #31159 - 15/05/05 04:22 AM

Hi 500grains,

My answer on the thread "Why Ray doesn't like Chapuis's?"

Hi Americans,

I am marvelling at your “non- amateurism”. When You are doing shooting, it’s really geniune and comprehensive shooting.
I am flabbergasted by your groups of POI.
Evidently, I tried my double once or twice at the range. My purpose was just to have an idea of the POI of both the barrels. That’s all.
Just 2 shots whenever I opt for another load.
We are using doubles as a useful tool to snapshoot running big game during driven hunts. When snapshooting no reflection or thought is intended, the eye and the shoulder take command, just like when rocking a mashie gun.
Purists, my congratulations.
No arselicking intended.

Do You agreee a double is not designed to be this accurate?

Kind regards


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: larcher]
      #31186 - 15/05/05 12:35 PM

In reply to:

Do You agreee a double is not designed to be this accurate?



larcher

I'm not sure of your question. If you are asking how accurate a Double should be I would say minimum of 3" at 100 yards. Anything less is useless and needs to be fixed. This can be by changing the loading or getting the rifle re regulated.

I have shot driven game with my SXS 9.3x74R and agree that accuracy isn't that important at the distances shot. But it is nice to know that if you see an old Boar that has doubled back past the drivers and is sneaking away through the snow that you can drop it at 100 to 150 yards.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: mickey]
      #31233 - 16/05/05 08:10 AM

In reply to:

If you are asking how accurate a Double should be I would say minimum of 3" at 100 yards. Anything less is useless and needs to be fixed. This can be by changing the loading or getting the rifle re regulated.



By that logic, then the group below is useless and should be "worked on" or re-regulated?

This is only a 2.5" at 50-yards, which would no doubt be larger than the noted 3" at 100.



--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: new_guy]
      #31238 - 16/05/05 09:54 AM

new_guy

Useless may be too strong a word but not as good as it should be would be appropriate. I would be particularly concerned about the way the L barrel stacks on the R.

If it were a 500 or above I wouldn't be concerned but if it is a 450 down it should be better.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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new_guy
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Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: mickey]
      #31240 - 16/05/05 11:53 AM

Better like this?



--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: new_guy]
      #31241 - 16/05/05 12:13 PM

In reply to:


Better like this?






I think that would be okay. You do have that one flyer though.





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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André
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Reged: 28/06/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Brussels (Belgium)
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: mickey]
      #31253 - 16/05/05 06:38 PM

Here's a pair from my 9,3x74R FN-Browning CCS 25 at 50 m :


--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: André]
      #31256 - 16/05/05 07:40 PM

Quote Mickey :”larcher
I'm not sure of your question. If you are asking how accurate a Double should be I would say minimum of 3" at 100 yards. Anything less is useless and needs to be fixed. This can be by changing the loading or getting the rifle re regulated.”

Sorry I am not as fluent in English as I would like. I am saying that if you use a double to snapshot, you don’t need to meet narrow groupings.
The trouble with double grouping is what you want at 50 and 100 yards taking barrels’ variable converging and overheating.
Few barrels are exactly parallel, in this case the distance between both the POI remains even.
They converge up to the same hole at 50 or 100yds. If the grouping is tight at 50, it will be broader at 100yds and vice versa.
Worse, heating intervenes. Gunsmiths told me the barrels are regulated waiting 5 to 10 seconds between the 2 shots. Tradition is so. Stupid for when we miss we are shooting the second barrel in less than 1 second.
From all of these considerations, it results the grouping is depending of the shooter’s choice.

I see you are no green horn concerning boar and driven hunts. I asked You in a former thread if You’ll happen to hop not far from France when hunting in Europe.
I’ll be glad to invite You. Just know that I am living close to Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium.

André,
As I can take hold of You : on a thread on AR forum I rejoiced myself at having a Dumoulin 375HH endorsed by Ganyana who put FN rifles high on his culling agent wishing list. After ErikD thought it's Mauser’s, I am legitimately doubting wether Dumoulin is using FN mechanism? You are the most qualified to provide an accurate answer.

Once again, congratulations, wonderful groupings.
Perhaps I'll test my Chapuis this afternoon. Nothing fantastic to be awaited, I am no sharpshooter and my Chapuis is just right out of the box like the ammos for which she is regulated.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: larcher]
      #31264 - 17/05/05 12:29 AM

In reply to:

I see you are no green horn concerning boar and driven hunts. I asked You in a former thread if You’ll happen to hop not far from France when hunting in Europe.
I’ll be glad to invite You. Just know that I am living close to Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium.



Larcher

Please do not apologize for the 'poor English'. It is far better than my French, I assure you.

Thank you for the invite. This Dec. I am going to Slovakia and the CZ Rep. I have some friends in Liege that keep telling me they are getting tired of my not stopping by when I am in Europe so hopefully I can do both.

I now have an EU acceptable Hunting Lic and Insurance so transporting my rifle has become much easier.

Lovu Zdar is the Czech equivalent of Wiedsmans Heil.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: larcher]
      #31265 - 17/05/05 12:38 AM

larcher - Regarding your English, well I won't even attempt French.

Speaking of which....

What to you call a person that speaks three languages? "trilingual"

What do you call a person that speaks two language? "bilingual"

What do you call a person that speaks only one language? "American"

I understand what you are saying about the groups. That for the type of shooting you're describing taking multi-shot groups may not be necessary in practice.

For me, however (personally), 100% confidence in the gun must be aquired first. I have to know what the gun/load combination is capable of, and I don't believe that one R&L off the bench accurately tells the story. So I shoot 6 or 8-shot groups to build confidence in the rifle & load's ability.

Having established confidence in the rifle, I then get away from the bench and work on shooting from various positions to gain confidence in myself. You might look at it as the elimination of variables in the equation.

A one-shot group (R&L) regularly come in for me at 1" or less at 50 (The two closest R&L in that 8-shot group are the first two shots fired.) And I shot 3, two-shot groups like that yesterday, but pushing on with the next 4 or 6 shots in those groups invariably open up a bit, and it's with those groups (if they are good) that I can gain a real confidence in the gun & load.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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JeffWemmer470
.224 member


Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 21
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: new_guy]
      #31267 - 17/05/05 12:57 AM

"500grains" - Damn'd nice groups!

Waht sort of rest are you using to keep that rifle under control?

Regarding the remark earlier about accuracy: All rifles should be accurate, especially DG rifles; "Aim small, miss small"!

JW

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: JeffWemmer470]
      #31274 - 17/05/05 01:21 AM

Jeff,

I sit at a bench and just rest my left hand on a sandbag, and have the butt against my shoulder but not touching a sandbag. The rifle does not touch any sandbag. It's merely a matter of concentration. That means sometimes I can shoot well, and sometimes not. In the next couple of weeks I plan to shoot some more shots on those same targets to see if I can produce groups satisfactory to all.

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André
.333 member


Reged: 28/06/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Brussels (Belgium)
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: larcher]
      #31325 - 17/05/05 06:39 PM

Bonjour Jean-Bernard,
Until a decade ago, Ernest Dumoulin used genuine (Safari) FN Mauser actions which were highly praised. The Cy. has since been sold to a Mr. Cammermans (= New Dumoulin Cy.) who subcontracted the building of his Mauser Brevex based actions in China. QC was so and so + some U.S. import difficulties prompted him to address a new European subcontractor (don't know who) and quality has improved. Present (new) Dumoulin's are fine rifles but are not rated the same as the old ones (price level remained the same, though...).
Amicalement, en saint Hubert.

--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: André]
      #31361 - 18/05/05 02:14 AM

Hi All,

Thank You very much.
I firmly believe the only people speaking only one language are the arrogant French.
Mickey, feel free to come when You want.
New Guy, you are a perfectionist, exactly what I am saying no amateurism.

Yesterday afternoon I tested my double at the range. 500 gr, I used a support for my butt. Mama mia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At 50m, my first bullet was dead in the centre (10) but the second (3seconds later) was at 11 cm (> 4 inches) at 5 o’clock (south-east).
I shot again, same result. So I didn’t waste my time testing the double, thanks guys for boring doubt in my tiny head.
Now 2 solutions : trying other loads or giving my double the Chapuis’s to have the barrels unsoldered, soldered, unsoldered, soldered………… until the group be perfect.

André,

Merci. The Dumoulin is a fine gun. I got it from a friend, not expensive at all. So, I am not this sad not possessing a genuine FN action.


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: larcher]
      #31368 - 18/05/05 04:31 AM

In reply to:

Yesterday afternoon I tested my double at the range. 500 gr, I used a support for my butt. Mama mia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At 50m, my first bullet was dead in the centre (10) but the second (3seconds later) was at 11 cm (> 4 inches) at 5 o’clock (south-east).
I shot again, same result. So I didn’t waste my time testing the double, thanks guys for boring doubt in my tiny head.
Now 2 solutions : trying other loads or giving my double the Chapuis’s to have the barrels unsoldered, soldered, unsoldered, soldered………… until the group be perfect.

André,




Andre

You are learning the awful truth about Double rifles. They just keep sucking you in, deeper and deeper.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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JeffWemmer470
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Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 21
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: mickey]
      #31371 - 18/05/05 05:32 AM

Andre, trust me you are doomed! DR's will completely control your life! (and that's OK)

Jeff

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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Targets shot with my double [Re: JeffWemmer470]
      #31525 - 19/05/05 08:00 PM

Yes I am doomed.
I have no time left to cook any load.
In ten days I'll attend the Country Show fair in Paris, I'll meet the Chapuis father and sons and let them my 9.3-74R.
I am angry. Ten years ago, a famous gunsmith modified my double. He changed the claw mount for another more close to the barrels, cut part of the butt off, he regulated the barrels for RWS KS 18.5g bullets and made me pay the price of a new gun. For a long time I refused to deal with this gunsmith any more and I never imagined my grouping would worsen.
The Chapuis will provide me a pure new gem......in time? Driven hunts will begin in november.



--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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