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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Northern
.224 member


Reged: 23/04/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Alberta Canada
Affordable double?
      #30230 - 29/04/05 01:22 PM

Hello, I’m new to the board. Is there such a thing as a enter level double gun in a Express Calibre? Say $5K or less?

Thanks,
Darrin

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30233 - 29/04/05 02:20 PM

Welcome!

A good friend ran onto a shootable William Evans in 450/400 Nitro proofed for $3,500.00 a year ago. It is a pretty used up gun, but still shoots well. I have been trying to screw him out...err...uhh...take it off his hands, but no go.

There are a few deals around, but they are not common.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30235 - 29/04/05 02:24 PM

GDay and welcome to the board. I am quite new here myself and am still learning but here goes...

There is no entry level doubles made in a NE chambering, NE guns are much more expensive. You can however get several new doubles for less than $5k but you can make the choice if you want one.

Spartan SPR22/Baikal double: Very basic rifles to say the least, if you want a fancy H&H, then this is not your gun. can be had in .45/70 or .30-06.
Remington news on Spartan
Spartan SPR22

Perdersolli Kodiak: Quite a nice double for the price, i havn't handled one though. Under your $5k range, and is avaliable in a few different mid-range calibres such as the versatile 9.3x74R.
Pedersoli Doubles

Merkel: The one I am saving for at the moment, very nice but about $6k AUS, which is about $4kUS.
merkel rifles
merkel prices


You are probly a few more out there...

You could look at getting a second hand double, but there arn't many for sale as the owners usually would rather part with a limb than their double! But bargains have been known to be had occasionally. Keep your eye out, you never know! Get the cash together first because you will hate to find one and not be able to buy it straight away because you don't have the cash! Happened to me twice already...damn.

Hope this helps, good shooting!





--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30268 - 30/04/05 12:21 PM

I have rarely come across any good deals on double rifles. I purchased a 470 Rigby in 1992 that needed restocking, some new screws and all of the metal work refinished. I bought the gun for 5,000 and spent another 5500.00 to bring it up to snuff. I should have kept it as it was the most accurate double I have ever owned.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30282 - 30/04/05 04:54 PM

Re: Affordable double?

You get what you pay for. From what I saw of guns in the US, a good deal is only a good deal
as something is wrong with the gun.

Like the poster about the Rigby 470, spent 5500 on it, 5500 to do it up.
(that's not to say it was good for the poster).

I try to stay away from "good deals" as they invariably are cheap to buy and not
worth the time and effort to do them up - and you really don't increase the value that much.

Better off outlaying for a good, working gun and having fun shooting it than waiting for that
"once in a lifetime deal" that you MAY end up regretting.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro



Edited by 500Nitro (01/05/05 06:02 AM)

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Phil_in_the_UK
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30288 - 30/04/05 08:02 PM

Darrin, affordable is a very relative term, for me it’s only affordable if I can afford to bounce it a few times, is fun to shoot and with no worries about scratches and dings. I looked at many “affordable” rifles before buying and am sure quite a few posters here would say I paid over the odds, but the point is this. I bought from a reputable dealer who put all the niggles right, took the rifle back and sorted trigger pulls, adjusted stock dimensions and stood by the sale at no additional cost. The rifle has now close to 450 shots through it, with some a little on the hot side, no sign of going off face or problems. It shoots well with factory loads and very well with hand loads. It has cost me the “affordable” purchase price only. A number of friends have been put off doubles for life through buying affordable bargains that look good but are not what they seem and cost to put right. Virtually any problem can be put right, its not rocket science, its just a case of how much will the affordable bargain cost. Don’t fall into the trap, buy new up to your affordable budget from a reputable dealer or used up to your affordable budget from a reputable dealer who will stand by the sale.

Don’t buy bargains, they rarely are and usually end up far from affordable. That said; if you reload go for something other than a used 470NE which come at a premium and you may find those used doubles start to look a little more “affordable”. Remember, it’s rarely affordable if you then have to spend the same again on putting it right and some wouldn’t be affordable to get shooting even if they were free.

For what it is worth, I have seen good used affordable doubles for your 5K here in the UK but they all seem to be in unusual NE or BP calibres or smaller non dangerous game calibres.

Regards

Phil

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #30306 - 01/05/05 12:25 AM

Phil_in_the_UK

You are spot on with what you say.

Darrin,

When I buy a double, it immediately goes to my gunsmith for the once over to get
all the "niggles etc" out of it. This costs $1000 - $2000 but I am then 100% confident
I can stand in front of DG and know it will work.

I spend the money on the guns to make sure they work for me. However, when I have offered for sale
the odd gun to people who ask, because it is not a "bargain" they lose interest.

Therefore I just gave up offering guns for sale - I just ship them off to an Auction and if they sell
they sell, if not, I bury them into storage again.

As an example, I once offered a BP Hammerless double to someone for a very good price (what it cost me).
Within 15 seconds, he said "that's a bit steep". Within 30 seconds the gun was back in it's case and went
back into the car - much to his amazement. I sold it 3 months later for 3 times what I offered it to him for.

The other thing to consider is that if you are prepared to not just "look for bargains", once you get
a reputation for this you will be offered a lot more guns than are currently "on show".

You get what you pay for.

Hope this advice helps.

500 Nitro

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Affordable double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #30320 - 01/05/05 02:58 AM

Gentlemen, You have given good advice.
When I am considering a double rifle for myself or a friend, of course the price must be within a persons budget.
But If the rifle shots good, and fits you good, and is in good shape I would not let a few dollars keep me from buying, or recommending a friend buy the rifle.

It might have been Oscar Wilde who once said,
"The memory of paying too much will be forgotten long before the memory of paying too little."

I also think he said, "I have the simplest of tastes, I am always satisfied with the best."

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30354 - 01/05/05 01:29 PM

Though the Baikal/Remington Spartans are crude guns, the Russians do make some fine guns which are rarely sold outside their country. They would still be cheaper than what is made in the West and good enough for someone on a budget - incidentally, I do identify with your need personally.

www.shipunov.com is one of the companies that makes fine guns (in comparison to the Baikals) though the entire range is not on their website and the site itself has not been updated in a long time. I hope that the Russians would overcome their socialist slumber and slowly start marketing their better made guns to the rest of the world.

Best wishes and do let us know when you finally select a gun - hope you find a fantastic one.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Oldsarge
.300 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Northern]
      #30379 - 02/05/05 06:28 AM

Darrin,
If you insist on a NE caliber and don't want to pay the $8500 that it would take to have Butch Searcy build it for you, then the best thing you can do is go to www.auctionarms.com or www.gunsamerica.com and stay on the lookout for a seldom fired Pedersoli in 45/70. Several double rifle shooters have taken such a piece, which seems to run around $15-1700 used and had it rechambered for either .450 NE or .450 #2 (which will have much lower pressure). That costs around $250-300. Oddly enough, they have proven to shoot accurately without re-regulating. This is against all lore, expectation, good sense and probablility but it is the case. That will give you a DR for about $2300. Then, if it doesn't regulate to your satisfaction, you still have a grand to get it redone. Of course you do have to appreciate hammers . . .

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Oldsarge]
      #30382 - 02/05/05 07:43 AM

I am not an expert on the Kodiak, but here is a potential word of warning about them:
I talked with JJ awhile back and he said you cannot reregulate the Pedersoli Kodiak since the barrels are brazed together. So you have a big gamble if you try to rechamber it in another caliber and then see if it still regulates.

I'd look for a used Merkel or Chapuis in 470.

Don't mean to start a fight, just repeating what I was told when I asked about rechambering them.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Edited by Chasseur (02/05/05 07:59 AM)

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #30387 - 02/05/05 10:38 AM

In reply to:

you cannot reregulate the Pedersoli Kodiak since the barrels are brazed together.



Not wanting to question JJ's or anyone elses knoweledge or expertise, but the above statement can in some cases not be totally correct.
It all depends on how the ribs are attached to the barrels.
If the barrels are joined by brazed packing pieces, but the ribs are attached by the usual method, either tin or soft solder, then there is a good chance that the gun can be re-regulated.
If however, the ribs are attached by brazing them to the barrels, then re- regulation may indeed be very difficult or impossible.
I don't know how the Kodiak ribs are attached.

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Affordable double? [Re: 4seventy]
      #30389 - 02/05/05 11:34 AM

In reply to:

If however, the ribs are attached by brazing them to the barrels, then re- regulation may indeed be very difficult or impossible.




Thats how he described it to me, saying that it'd be next to impossible to do it.

I'm no gunsmith or double rifle regulator, but thats what the guy who re-regulated my double rifle told me.



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #30393 - 02/05/05 12:42 PM

Chasseur,
That's most likely how it is then regarding the Kodiak as no doubt JJ would know.
My comment was really meant to mention that there are some doubles which have their barrels joined by brazing but have their ribs attached by a soft solder or tin.
Some of these rifles can be re-regulated.

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Affordable double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #30394 - 02/05/05 12:44 PM

JJ told me the same thing about re-regulating the Kodiak.
With Nitro Express ballistics, at the weight of a Kodiak, recoil could be a problem for some.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Affordable double? [Re: NE450No2]
      #30395 - 02/05/05 12:54 PM

What it really boils down too is that having a set of barrels brazed together does not make them impossible to re-regulate.
Having a set of barrels brazed together and also having their ribs attached by brazing does mean that it could a very difficult or impossible task to re-regulate.
The problem is with the ribs being brazed, not with the barrels being brazed together.

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Affordable double? [Re: 4seventy]
      #30403 - 03/05/05 12:01 AM

Good point Alan, I did not know the distinction between the two.



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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