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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Martini Henry NE??
      #29847 - 21/04/05 07:49 PM

GDay fellas, i'm still saving for that double but I have found something interesting along the way. A Martini Henry .577/450 carbine in very poor condition but the action is good although the barrel has been cut at the knox form, I believe to deactivate it for some reason.
Anyway, I thought why not re-finish it with a new stock (I don't like the MH stock now, too much drop) a good barrel (maybe an octagonal), a different chambering and use it on some buff.

My question is this, since it is a british rifle, I wanna go with a british cartridge and would love to use a nitro (.470NE with black powder loads) but am not too sure what the action can handle, can you guys shed some light? Also, I was thinking the .470NE may be too long to fit down the load ramp. True/false? I'm not really sure about the cartridge selection yet, maybe a 500NE or even a .375 flanged Cheers!

Good Shooting.

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #29859 - 22/04/05 06:33 AM

The major restriction with the Martini Henry action is the length of the cartridge you can fit in the action. You need a cartridge that isn't so long that it won't "turn the corner" going in. The .375 Flanged will fit. I have never tried the .475 but I think those big 3.5 inch cases are just to long. I don't think the 500NE will fit either, but if it does let me know.

The other determining factor is strength. Made with modern steel the Martini Henry would be well up to the task with any of these cartridges. But absent any knowledge of the type of steel used in the MH, I would be reluctant to build a gun in the calibers you mentioned.

Have you looked at the Westley Richards 450 Musket No.2?





--------------------
DD, Ret.

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: DoubleD]
      #29863 - 22/04/05 08:28 AM

I thought that may be the case (pun intended), too long... .375 Flanged will probly be the go, I can build a nitro on a Ruger No. 1 later on.

I have an aquaintance that is going to be making me the stock for this rifle and since I am going to be making it fairly fancy, I want a nice timber with a unusual grain, any ideas? I was thinking maybe Australian Jarrah...

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #29874 - 22/04/05 01:03 PM

I would be reluctant to build a 375 Flanged Magnum, no problem with the 375 2 1/2 however, got one of those.



--------------------
DD, Ret.

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: DoubleD]
      #29888 - 22/04/05 04:59 PM

How does it shoot? The 2.5" version, is it a shortened 375 flanged?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #29893 - 22/04/05 08:26 PM

Well, both are flanged. The .375 Flanged 2 1/2 NE could I guess be called an extra long blown out .303 case. The 375 Flanged Magnum NE is similiar to, but not the same as the .375 H&H.

I was going to build a .375 Flanged Magnum on a 100 year old+ Westley Richards Martini Henry MK III style action. I could not get comfortable with that, because I do not know what the composition of the steel is in the action. The action was probably made any where from the late 1880's up to the early 1900's. I definitely would not build a .375 Flanged Magnum on any former Military gun. The type of steel is just an unknown factor. I don't think the gun will burst, but I do believe it will stretch.

My 375 Flanged 2 1/5 and I have killed a lot of paper, but the gun and an animal and I have not been present on the same field yet.

The fellow I bought the gun from was using it to shoot High power rifle matches at ranges of 200, 300 and 500 yards.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: DoubleD]
      #29897 - 22/04/05 11:02 PM

DoubleD:
I think you are being a little hasty in discounting the .375 Flanged Magnum: its twice the cartridge compared with the 2 1/2. I know its more about back-thrust, but the 2 1/2 inch cartridge runs at higher pressure than the Flanged Magnum. Many Martinis were re-chambered for the .375 Flanged Magnum a century ago, all were subjected to British proof loads at the time, obviously most survived proof or the practice ould hardly have been economically viable! Many of these conversions are still in use today.

I think the .375 Flanged Magnum is probably the perfect choice.

...although one could admit to bold ecccentricity and have a closer look at the 20-bore/.577 Express!!!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #29918 - 23/04/05 06:17 AM

The 375 Flanged 2 1/2 NE runs at higher pressure than the .375 Flanged Magnum NE? That's news to me. The .375 Flanged 2 1/2 NE is running higher than 50,000 cup??

Well why did you tell me that, now I'll have to pick up a .375 barrel and build this .375 Flanged Magnum after all?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #29942 - 23/04/05 09:20 PM

Marrakai, I would love to admit to bold ecccentricity and have a closer look at the 20-bore/.577 Express!!! Can you tell me about it? I have heard of it a few times but know nothing much of it's specifics. Put away a few buffs with it? I bet!

Truth be told, I don't really have a clue what cartridge to build, there are too many choices! I gotta be able to get or easily make brass for it, dies and a chamber reamer etc, it's gotta fit down the load ramp of the martini and not be too high a pressure for the action...and it's gotta have enough ergots to take down a buff! That's still a long list!

I do like that .375 Flanged though...

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #30184 - 28/04/05 05:56 PM

Actually, according to Kynoch, the flanged is higher pressure than the 2.5"...

Kynoch loads


Here is a pic of the actual rifle... It is in much better condition than I was told, except the barrel of course. It is on auction, I have a bid on and will find out on the 1st if I get it.


--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #30200 - 29/04/05 01:46 AM

Another option may be the .333 Jeffery Flanged but I don't know where you could get a .33 cal barrel made. Could always neck it to .338 or down to 8mm.

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Martini Henry NE?? [Re: tunofun]
      #30215 - 29/04/05 09:56 AM

I stand corrected on the .375 x 2 1/2 pressure, that's way down on the Flanged Magnum!

My library is in transit at the moment, moving house, but its likely that cordite loads ran very different pressures. I'll check when I can...

Thanks for the heads-up, tunofun.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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