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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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Francis
.224 member

Reged: 10/12/09
Posts: 42
Loc: Sedgwick, Victoria, Australia

9.5 x57MS loads
#301232 - 03/06/17 11:38 AM

Does anyone have a load for 9.5 x 57 MS using powders available in Aus with a 270gr bullet?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Francis]
#301247 - 03/06/17 01:20 PM

If that is the standard 57mm case, but in .375", you could easily use my data for the 9.3x57.
Thus, using Ar2206H, which is the same as H4895.

Standard large rifle primer.

I would start at 44.0gr. with a 270gr. projectile.

My maximum for the 270gr. in the Husqvarna Model 96 action was 48.0gr. H4895 for 2,268fps. This was very accurate.

My max. for a model 96 action was 45.0gr. with a 300gr. bullet @ 2,175fps.

Even though the 9.5 has a larger expansion ratio than the 9.3, the velocities might be fairly close.

Incidentally, my maximum listed loads produced no measurable pressure signs as to expansion of the case in my chamber, over FL sized size.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Francis
.224 member

Reged: 10/12/09
Posts: 42
Loc: Sedgwick, Victoria, Australia

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: DarylS]
#301311 - 04/06/17 11:21 AM

Thanks Daryl, I will give that a try. I have been using AR 2206 but have nearly run out. I thought someone may have tried AR2208 (IMR4064 equivalent).
Thanks again for the reply.

John

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2449
Loc: Melbourne Australia

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Francis]
#301333 - 04/06/17 09:04 PM

I use 47 grains of AR2206H which is a recipe that one of the guys on the forum here gave me. Works very well with no pressure signs. If you are using Bertram Brass check your headspace as it may be excessive.

Waidmannsheil.

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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1831
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Francis]
#301380 - 05/06/17 04:37 PM

I don't know what's available in Australia, but I have used 42 grains IMR 4895 with 270 grain RN.
For brass I have used .35 Whelen with excellent results.

I worked that load after lengthy (pre internet) research some while back and it nearly matches the recommended load stamped on my M1910 for Cordite (9.5 M/M EX Cordite 43-270 MAX) along with its Birmingham proofs.

I have posted the "Ballistics of German DWM Cartridges 1935" pages of the 1939 Stoeger catalog on TheFirearmsForum.

I'd post them here, but every attempt I've made to post images to this site has ended in frustration.

From the 1935 chart, the load for DWM 531 was:
Case - (DWM) 531
Bullet- (DWM) 407A Soft nosed round head
Length- 28mm
Weight- 17.6 gram (271.61 grain)
Powder- 3.25 gram
Powder- R5 (Rotweil smokeless rifle leaf powder #5) 3.25 grams would be 50.15 grains... ouch!
V25 m/s - 627
E25 kgm - 354
Pressure kg/cm2 - 2600
Barrel Length - 60 cm

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Francis]
#301389 - 05/06/17 06:53 PM

Quote:

Thanks Daryl, I will give that a try. I have been using AR 2206 but have nearly run out. I thought someone may have tried AR2208 (IMR4064 equivalent).
Thanks again for the reply.

John

I have a feeling the smith did the load development for mine with 2208. I'll ask him when hes back.

--------------------
.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Ash]
#301394 - 05/06/17 07:13 PM

I will need these loads myself soon. Thanks to a NE member.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: NitroX]
#301421 - 06/06/17 04:00 AM

Quote:

I have just looked at the site and made some notes and this is a list of the powders that are made by ADI and sold under the Hodgdon name. These are not similar powders but the same thing as I understand it, obviously batch variation not withstanding.

Here goes:

AS30 - Clays
AS50 - International

AP70 - Universal (I like this one for reduced 22 and 17 Hornet loads.)

AR2205 - H4227
AR2207 - H4198
Benchmark 1 - not sold by Hodgdon
AR2219 - H322
Benchmark 2 - Benchmark by Hodgdon
AR2206H - H4895 Note the H designation on 2206, this is new down here.
AR2208 - Varget
AR2209 - H4350
AR2213SC - H4831SC SC = short cut
AR2225 - Retumbo
AR2218 - H50BMG (Pretty sure about that one but not 100%)

There are some Hodgdon's that appear on the chart on the site that are on the same burn rate line as the ADI's that are not made by ADI. All ADI powders are either flake type pistol/shotshell powders or relatively fine extruded powders in the AR rifle series.

This is from a fellow who lives in New Zealand and posted this list on a small bore forum.

Of note - ADI2208 = Varget here, not the IMR 4064. burn rates are similar, although not quite the same. 4064 is not an EXTREME powder, in that it is more susceptible to temperature changes than is Varget. many guys here like Varget in their '06's for 150 and 165gr. bullets. I figured Varget would be good in the 9.3x57, however I had a lot of H4895 so used that. In some ctgs. They are like peas in a pod.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: DarylS]
#301422 - 06/06/17 04:29 AM

Other data, since 9.5x57 and 9.3x57 are so similar. In the 9.5, the pressures and speeds might/should be slightly lower than developed by these. Note - rifle used was a model 96 Mauser, by Husqvarna, made in 1929.

Note, as sized, .466" was the base diameter.
OAL - Over All Length
Unless noted, all brass RP 8x57 Mauser, necked-up straight then sized to fit my chamber for 0 headspace(crush fit).

Note 220gr. Hornady FP is sized down .375 Hornady FP
Note - 225gr. Hornady is sized down .375 Hornady SP.
Note - 300gr. Hornady is sized down .375 Hornady SP.

232gr. Norma Vulcan - WLR Primer - 50.0gr. H4895 - 2.865" OAL - 2,442fps. base web expansion .466/.4662"

232gr. Norma Vulcan - WLR Primer - 52.0gr. H4895 - 2,990" OAL - 2,436fps - base web expansion .466" no expansion over FL sized.

232gr. Norma Vulcan - WLR Primer - 50.0gr H335 - 2.990" OAL - 2,362fps - ?

232gr. Norma Vulcan - WLR - (30/06 brass) - 54.0gr. BLC2 - 2.990" OAL - 2,336fps - ?

225gr. Hornady S.P. - WLR Primer - 52.0gr. H4895 - ?????? OAL - 2,558fps

220gr. Hornady F.P. - WLR Primer - 52.0gr. H4895 - ?????? OAL - 2,547fps

270gr. Speer----------WLR Primer - 48.0gr. H4895 - 3.045" OAL - 2,268fps base web expansion .4661" = 1/10,000" over sized dia.

270gr. Speer----------WLR Primer - 48.0gr. BLC2 -- 3,045" OAL - 1,978fps

270gr. Speer----------WLR Primer - 50.0gr. BLC2 -- 3,045" OAL - 2,111fps

270gr. Speer----------WLR Primer - 52.0gr. BLC2 -- 3,045" OAL - 2,300fps base web expansion .467" (.001" over sized diameter)

293gr. TUG -----------WLR Primer - 45.0gr. H4895 - 3.070" OAL - 2,180fps .4660" - no expansion

300gr. Hornady R.N.- WLR Primer - 45.0gr. H4895 -- 3.070" OAL - 2,170/5fps - base web expansion .4661", to .4662"

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Francis
.224 member

Reged: 10/12/09
Posts: 42
Loc: Sedgwick, Victoria, Australia

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: DarylS]
#301504 - 07/06/17 08:21 PM

Thank you to everyone for the replies and suggestions.
I picked the 1910 up locally, it came with a few packets of original Kynoch and some loaded rounds. The loaded rounds look like military 30/06 (LC head stamp, 235gr spire points and what looked like AR 2206, 44gr. I am sticking with the 270gr Woodleigh RN because it feeds perfectly from the Schoenauer rotary mag. The main reason I wanted to try AR 2208 was I thought it may fill the case more than the AR2206.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1831
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Francis]
#301545 - 08/06/17 06:29 PM

Your instinct regarding round nose projectiles for the Schoenauer magazine is correct.

Keep all dimensions exactly the same as DWM 531 (the proprietary M/S round for M1910) and she will feed smoothly.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Rothhammer1]
#301556 - 09/06/17 02:51 AM

My own 9.5x57 M-S aka .375 rimless NE 270 gr load: case formed from W-W .30-06, 270 gr Hornady round nose (still have some boxes stocked), 55 gr VV N140 (100 % capacity) for 707 m/s = 2300 fps iv from my 50 cm = 20" barrel.

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ChrisPer
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Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: kuduae]
#302004 - 19/06/17 11:51 PM

That's a good velocity Kuduae.
I have used 270gn RN Woodleigh, 270gnRN Hornady (all out now) and Speer 235gn spire point. The Speers feed better than the Woodleighs I think.

W-W 30-06 cases formed with the dies in the green boxes. I have fired maybe 400 over 20 years owning the rifle. W-W LR primers. 44gn of AR2206. I think I only get 1900fps or so, and its the full length barrel not the carbine.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: ChrisPer]
#302007 - 20/06/17 01:46 AM

ChrisPer are you using AR2206H - which is a new one (few years old) for ADI, I was told.

Hodgdon sells it as H4895 Extreme.

Extreme means it is not sensitive to temperature extreme shifts.

This is born out in my testing.

Loads made up in the winter, perform almost exactly the sane in hot summer temps, with no discernible difference in pressures.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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