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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 243
Loc: Scotland
Fox non toxic bullets
      #300828 - 26/05/17 08:44 AM

Having seen x-rays of deer shot with the normal chest shot and the way lead fragments going all the way around the carcass and when butchering the mess that even perfectly placed shots make in terms of bloodshot meat when shot with conventional bullets and having thrown the front half of quite a few deer shot through the shoulders I am coming round to thinking about using non toxic monolithic type bullets. The American Barnes x and Hornady GMX are tough to get hold of in U.K. So thinking of trying the Fox Bullets that are now coming on the market.

http://www.foxbullets.eu

I particularly unhappy with my 243 and the brand of ammo seems to have changed their bullets and get full blow up with conventional soft point on a shoulder of a Roe buck - not exactly a big deer.

Any body used them in anger?


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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Fox non toxic bullets [Re: HeymSR20]
      #300837 - 26/05/17 08:08 PM

Not sure how valid those "findings" of lead fragments dispersing throughout an animal carcass really are. A few years ago similar studies in the USA were touted widely by the tree huggers to throw a monkey wrench in the lead (interpret as inexpensive) ammunition supply.

After much noise, those studies were debunked and life went back to normal with the ammo supply of lead based bullets uninterrupted. They also were pushing hard to remove lead fishing weights from the market at the same time but that went nowhere as well. Lead is very stable and tends not to be soluble.

Anyhow, after eating a tremendous amount of wild game for many years shot with traditional lead bullets and actively participating in IPSC events using lead bullets primarily at indoor ranges and some with extremely poor ventilation, I went to the Dr and had my lead levels checked. All normal and no signs of lead exposure detected.

Nowadays, I use a combination of lead and lead free bullets, but I base my choices on bullet performance. I don't use highly frangible bullets on game intended for the table in any event but that is because I'm looking for deep penetration and reasonable expansion.

In any event, I do wish you the best in your search for a good non lead bullet. In Canada, the bullet supply is nowhere near as good as it is 100 miles to the south in the USA, but it is still pretty easy to be able to buy most of what one wants locally. It is not legal to simply drive across the border and export bullets from the USA so we depend on the local outlets for our supplies.


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2100
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Fox non toxic bullets [Re: Postman]
      #300843 - 26/05/17 11:42 PM

Poison lead bullets and shot is the same as the flat earth, global warming and wonderful socialism. They are all lies to be fed to people stupid enough to believe them, and cops treasonous enough to enforce them.

It's just another lie with a hidden agenda.

Now that's not to say there is anything wrong with non-lead bullets. Like the Barnes X and the Hornady GMX bullets, I am sure these Fox bullets will do all you would ask, but that has little to do with the fact that there is no lead in them. We have the Swift line of bullets here in the USA, which have lead and will do all the expanding solid bullets will do. The down side to solid expanding bullets (and also partition bullets like the Swift and the Nosler) is the cost.

I know....I know....your bullet is the lest expensive thing to think of on a hunt.

That's not a good argument however. If your ammo is too expensive to practice with you don't become a good marksman, so affordability is a MAJOR concern for most hunters in the USA. A bad marksman will waist nearly all his money on a hunt because the hunt will be a disappointment.
Most American hunters are not wealthy men and women but just middle class, and many are of the poorer segment of society.

When I was a boy I grew up in the country. Money was hard to earn and hard labor was how we did it. But bullets and powder was cheap enough then that I could shoot a LOT. By the time I was 18 and joined the USMC, I had already shot the throats out of a 270 Winchester rifle and a 44 magnum revolver. I did that because I could afford to shoot. On a country boy's wadges no less!

As a gunsmith and guide, I seldom see hunters today who have the skill with their guns that I and several of my fiends had when I was a 17 year old kid. That's because they can't afford to practice like we did in those days.

It may be impossible today, and as many will point out everything is about 5X more expensive today than it was in the 60s and early 70s. So my post may be mostly worthless. But I sure do miss the days of $1.75 per pound powder, and bullets that cost $4 per box. Even at 6X the cost that would equate to $10.50 per pound of powder today and bullets of 24 dollars per box.
My old 44 magnum shot lead bullets I cast myself from Linotype in a 4 cavity mold. The metal I bought for $22 dollars a ton.

I hope the Fox line is going to be competitive with the American made bullets, but so far I have heard nothing about them. I wrote to them. Maybe I will hear back soon. I hope so.





Edited by szihn (27/05/17 12:25 AM)


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Fox non toxic bullets [Re: szihn]
      #300845 - 27/05/17 02:39 AM

Well put Steve. I had not thought of the shooting prowess in those terms, but you are in the correct path with that thinking, I am sure.

Most of the hunters I see hiring guide services, have much higher paying jobs or businesses than I ever had. I could never afford a guided hunt - but I can certainly shoot reasonably well, whereas a good shot in a hunting client, is not a common thing. Priorities, I guess.

I'm on my 3rd M29 4". Guess that is due to not liking soft loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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simonsaorsa
.300 member


Reged: 11/05/06
Posts: 172
Loc: UK
Re: Fox non toxic bullets [Re: HeymSR20]
      #300879 - 28/05/17 08:57 AM

there is a thread about these on the UK Varminting forum

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