Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

Pages: 1
Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action?
      #298847 - 11/04/17 04:03 AM

There is a guy selling a sporterized P14. What is odd is that the barel is marked Westley Richards & Co. London and .303 Cartridge Mk VII

Has anyone ever heard of WR using P14 actions for their sporters?

Will try and get some pics up once I figure out the technology of my dumb phone!

Here is the barrel



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Strathcona]
      #298852 - 11/04/17 07:26 AM

1st for me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 934
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: DarylS]
      #298859 - 11/04/17 08:07 AM

Not heard of it but nothing would surprise me. Interested to see some photos of the rifle if you can.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Claydog]
      #298862 - 11/04/17 08:30 AM

Don't know about WR, but I have seen in my hands Cogswell & Harrison rifles built on the M17/P14 action and have seen a few H&H also !

So I think it possible.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Claydog]
      #298863 - 11/04/17 08:39 AM

I received some pics from the guy. Aside from the barrel, it seems to be a poorly done conversion of a milsurp.

The rear site is rather strange as well.

I suspect that this was a receiver/barrel that was dropped into a sporterized milsurp stock and had a new rear site put on it. If the barrel had come off an enfield action it would need some work to go onto a P14 receiver?

Here are some of the pics he sent






Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Strathcona]
      #298874 - 11/04/17 10:54 AM

Hard to tell for sure, not a nice one if done by WR, can't imagine them turning that out ?

Im pretty sure P14 = Pattern 14 Enfield, so it is a Enfield ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Sarg]
      #298879 - 11/04/17 01:47 PM

Yes - an Enfield P14 - needs a huge barrel shank diameter to thread to that action, 1.25" IIRC. Thus, it probably did not come off a different action- appearing to be full action diameter - standard shank length ahead of the action.

"I suspect that this was a receiver/barrel that was dropped into a sporterized milsurp stock and had a new rear site put on it. If the barrel had come off an enfield action it would need some work to go onto a P14 receiver?"

Yes, possibly - but the barrel would have had to have been threaded to this action to start with, seems to me, due to it's dimensions.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: DarylS]
      #298894 - 12/04/17 08:32 AM

Yes the barrel would of been cut specifically for the P14 Action. The rear sights look to be a SMLE or M98 type. I am guessing that an external gunsmith had WR make the barrel fro him and he has done the rest, or pulled the barrel off a WR P14, added the rear sight.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1635
Loc: Finland
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Rule303]
      #298934 - 12/04/17 11:35 PM

Perhaps you could say this rear sight is "m98 style" but itīs definitely not Mauser factory made. IMO it looks much more like those you could see in Russian made sporting rifles.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Igorrock]
      #298942 - 13/04/17 02:40 AM



check out the rough vice-clamping marks on the sides of the sight pivot - a rough-shod was of tightening up that joint. Very boer-ish bit of gun-smithery there.

Easily remedied, Strathcona.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Igorrock]
      #298947 - 13/04/17 03:53 AM

Quote:

Perhaps you could say this rear sight is "m98 style" but itīs definitely not Mauser factory made. IMO it looks much more like those you could see in Russian made sporting rifles.




That is why I said "type", but style might be a better descriptive. Certainly is not an M98 factory sight.

Edited by Rule303 (13/04/17 03:54 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 118
Loc: USA
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Rule303]
      #298979 - 13/04/17 01:28 PM

It looks a lot like one of the many BSA Sporters made on the P14 after WW1. Sporterized Military stock, cut down rear rcv'r to elliminate the 'ears', quite a few different rear bbl sights were used including this simple open sight on the one in the link and a 2 folding and one standing leaf rear sight. Some checkered stocks some not, Some just the pistol grip.
MAde into different calibers too. There's an old BSA ad for the sporter in 8x57Mauser round,,'commonly available around the world'.

BSA usually marked them either on the bbl or on the action itself 'Manufactured by BSA'.
Could be covered by a 'scope mt base on the OP rifle.

They made a Model E Sporter later on with a commercially made sporter stock. ParkerHale retailed those I believe. Same P14 actions and bbl's actions w/ some modifications and alterations.

The WR marking could be a retailers marking w/caliber,,not unusual on another mfg's firearm.
There's another engraved line above the WR marking in the photo facing the op direction. Can't read it though. Looks like larger and more stylized lettering than the WR marking. One portion might read 'Co Ltd' (?).

Just one I found a pic of. There are plenty BSA P14 Sporterpics around,,
http://www.icollector.com/BSA-P14-SPORTER-RIFLE_i24241426


Just my observations..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: 2152hq]
      #299117 - 16/04/17 10:45 AM

I've seen a few of those BSA sporters over the years, including a nice between-the-wars 'High Power' (IIRC) and currently own a post-WWII Model E sporter. None of them had a rear sight anything like the example above!

With vintage Brit hardware, the rules are: "There are no rules" !

Also, there has been at least one thread on these forums with pics of commercial P-14 sporters. Would be worth posting the link here.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Marrakai]
      #299120 - 16/04/17 01:29 PM

I know Holland & Holland built some rifles on the P14 action. I also remember seeing an old catalog with a picture of their "Best" magazine rifle and it was built on that action. Based on that, I see no reason to believe other British makers would not have been doing the same, including Westley Richards.

Strathcona has a good explanation, this may have been a barreled action that found a new home in a sporterized stock.

Alternatively, and maybe more likely, this rifle may be wearing a take-off barrel. The barrel might have been removed from a Westley Richards rifle that was being rebarreled, probably to a different caliber. That would also explain why the sights are gone. They would have been removed to be mounted on the new barrel. It also explains why the bolt handle has not been altered. Is there a Westley Richards serial number engraved on the tang or triggerguard? If not, that also supports the notion that only the barrel is from that firm.

What about the proofs? Wouldn't a BSA action and barrel likely have been proofed in Birmingham and wouldn't a Westley Richards barrel and action likely have been proofed in London?

So, if the barrel and action both carry London proof marks wouldn't that support the notion that the barreled action was originally built together? And, if the barrel carries a London proof and the action carries a Birmingham proof would that not support the notion that the barrel came from another rifle?

--------------------
~


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Old_rifle_nut
.300 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: Westlet Richards barrel on a P14 action? [Re: Grenadier]
      #300351 - 12/05/17 01:33 AM

The top of the rear receiver ring carries the newer (post W.W.1) B.S.A.Guns (3 stacked rifles within an oval) logo.

Barrel, bolt & receiver all carry B'ham proof marks.

Barrel, bolt, receiver & rear sight slide all carry the same serial number (bolt & slide only have last 3 digits).

The dove-tailed barrel hold-down block, screw or diamond-shaped stock escutcheon do not carry the serial number, nor does the barrel-mounted sling eye.

The other side of the barrel carries the engraved inscription:

MADE FOR WELLS' HARDWARE Co. LTD. FORT FRANCES

This was a famous hardware store (ca. 1885-1940's) in the lumber town of Fort Frances, Ontario, Canada, on the other side of the Rainy River from International Falls, Minnesota, USA

Another 1/2 can of Wipe-out and the blue goop from the bore is finally gone.

Now to see if I can locate a better, more suitable stock for the old girl.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 9 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  NitroX 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 6313

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved