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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
BSA Sporter for sale/sold
      #299350 - 21/04/17 02:26 AM

https://ellwoodepps.com/lee-enfield-no-1-sporter-bsa.html

I asked for pictures and they sent them to me and posted them on their site.

Was sold before I could decide if I wanted it. With tax and shipping it was about $730CAD


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Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 805
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Strathcona]
      #299380 - 21/04/17 08:03 AM

Not surprised it went. Nice Sporter. Cannot see the photos to well but looks to be some nice grain in the stock.

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Old_rifle_nut
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Claydog]
      #299449 - 22/04/17 01:47 AM

You snooze, you lose!

Another one for me.


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Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #299450 - 22/04/17 03:05 AM

Let me know what the bore is like when you get it. Epps said it was 318 which is one of the reasons I hesitated. Looks like it was marked 303 on the barrel?

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1063
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Strathcona]
      #299452 - 22/04/17 03:43 AM

Nice rifle, weird bore & nasty Crack through the grip, if it releases a .318 just use the old 8mm size slug, I used them in a shot out barrel & the results were amazing !

Still I like the look, don't see many of that type down here, I have a mint one waiting in Canada for me !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Sarg]
      #299461 - 22/04/17 06:50 AM

I had wondered if it was maybe one of the 8mm variants.

I have thr exact same one so couldnt really justify buying a second one.

Had it been a different variant or an actual Lee-Speed i would not have hesitated.


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Old_rifle_nut
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Strathcona]
      #299463 - 22/04/17 07:45 AM

I don't think it is the 500/320 (aka 8x50R), as they had different sights, because of the Indian government's sighting & calibre restrictions, which is why the 303's weren't available there in the first place.

I've had a number of old #1 Pattern H.V.S.R.'s / Lee Speeds, especially the #1 (ribbed barrel) type, which had that large of a bore.

Look at the original 303 barrel specs. They were up to 0.321" in the grooves. (Land size 0.303"-0.3049" + 0.005"-0.0079" groove depth X 2).

I've got 13 of them now. Always room for 1 more of my favourite rifle, although I've sold a half-dozen in the last year or so that no longer appeal to me for one reason or another. Mostly the Pattern #1's (long ribbed barrelled ones), as they are pretty well useless where I hunt in the Canadian Shield, where 75 yards is a very long shot in the black spruce and the usual is 25 yards. I simply find the 21" barrel length VERY handy in the bush, so tend to really watch out for those.


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buckbrush
.300 member


Reged: 23/08/07
Posts: 118
Loc: Alberta
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #299495 - 23/04/17 05:08 AM

one of mine is a no 1 mk3 like the one at Epps. It is a number 2 sporter and has a .305 Bore and .317 groove diameter.

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Strathcona
.224 member


Reged: 02/03/17
Posts: 23
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: buckbrush]
      #299499 - 23/04/17 07:10 AM

Here is mine. It was the same as the Epps one (10 rnd vs 5 rnd mag mind you)

The shorter barrels seem to be a bit more prevalent up here it seems



Edited by Strathcona (23/04/17 11:27 AM)


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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1063
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Strathcona]
      #299515 - 23/04/17 12:00 PM

Man I love that model, looks great & you can put a no drill scope mount on them & that lighter barrel would be great, never seen any like that down here !

It is a what has been called a "Lee Speed" as nearly all Speeders are really BSA sporters as these are & very nice, only the front sight I'm not too keen on .

Be great to see pics of your Speeders Old rifle nut !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Old_rifle_nut
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Sarg]
      #299530 - 24/04/17 09:59 AM

Buckbrush:

The one at Epps that I just bought is NOT a #1 Mk. III. Neither, from the photo provided, is Strathcona's. Look at the cocking piece safety. Now look at the charger bridge. When you see both on 1 rifle, you have what is known as a C.L.L.M./E. (Charger Loading Lee Metford, or C.L.L.Enfield). It is a post-1907 variant of the Long Lee / Lee Metford II* action, ie. a Long Lee, but with a charger loading appurtenance on the top. A lot of the later higher grade sporters, at least the ones I've had, are of this pattern.

Sarg:

Well, you had commented before on a couple of my posts that you liked the photos I had posted, but, as I no longer have a photobucket account, if you pm me, I can dropbox the photos to you.

Jim


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 16219
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Strathcona]
      #299535 - 24/04/17 12:53 PM

Quote:

https://ellwoodepps.com/lee-enfield-no-1-sporter-bsa.html

I asked for pictures and they sent them to me and posted them on their site.

Was sold before I could decide if I wanted it. With tax and shipping it was about $730CAD




Well done, Man - very nice!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Old_rifle_nut
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Daryl_S]
      #299906 - 02/05/17 02:31 AM

Well, I finally received it, after waiting what seemed, at least to me, an inordinate amount of time. Then again, this happens every single time I buy a rifle that has to travel through the post. In any event, after a suitable period of ogling it, throwing it to my shoulder, working the bolt & dry firing it, I disassembled it, cleaned it, installed a magazine cut-off that had been removed (at least the magazine cut-off screw was still there), added a brass oiler & pull-through underneath the trap door, as had been there originally, and set to work cleaning the bore. Six days and a half can of Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner later, three patches finally came out clean.

The bore is OUTSTANDING! Sharp lands, sharp grooves & NO cordite frosting. Quite likely it was ordered new for delivery in Canada and never had to put up with that EVIL cordite, but rather just good old Canadian-made nitrocellulose. (Why does everyone seem to forget that the Dupont plant is in Quebec, Canada & NOT in the U.S. of A., I wonder)

I measured the barrel's interior, after being advertised as having a bore of 0.318" and here is what I got (for those of you who forget that Lees, as most other British rifles, have an odd number of lands & grooves; in this case 5 of each):

lands 0.302"
grooves 0.314"

How did I get that you ask?

A lot harder than simply measuring the lands and then the grooves across opposite points of the barrel, like you do with non-European barrels! Well, not really, you just have to go about it a different way.

A: Outside diameter of barrel to front face of front sight base collar: 0.5570"
B: Thickness of barrel to land (thickest part) measured to the same point: 0.1275"
C: Thickness of barrel to groove (thinnest part) measured to the same point: 0.1215"

Now, there undoubtedly exists some fancy geometric / algebraic / calculus formula to figure this out, but I'm just a dumb retired nut, so I had to figure this out myself.

Knowing that the thickest part of the barrel between the lands equals the bore diameter, we get A - (B x 2) = land diameter

=0.5570-(0.1275 x 2)
=0.5570-0.255
=0.302"
Confirmation: (my bore gauge plug of 0.302" fits, but my bore gauge plug of 0.3025 does not). Further confirmation: one of my Accurate Moulds bullets that I designed (31-210H), with a bore ride diameter of 0.303" fits very snugly into the muzzle with a light coating of sewing machine oil, BUT there are very distinct grooves impressed into the bullet showing 5 fully developed land marks.

Now for the groove diameter:

Knowing that the thinnest part of the barrel opposite the lands equals the groove diameter,
we take the outside diameter of barrel minus twice the thickness of the thinnest portion of barrel, we get A - (C x 2) = groove (required bullet) diameter

=0.5570-(0.1215 x 2)
=0.5570-0.243
=0.314"

Notice the thickness of the rifling is 0.006" ((0.314" - 0.302") / 2). The British Minimum requirement is 0.005", while the rejection is 0.008", so still on the tight side.

You know why we don't have the right size jacketed bullets (well, you don't, I have 1,000 S.R.Custom 200 gr. SP bullets measuring 0.314" back from when he was still making them)?

It's because the American standard is typically 0.004" rifling thickness:

30 caliber 0.300" / 0.308"
338 caliber 0.330" / 0.338"
35 caliber 0.350" / 0.358"
6.5 caliber 0.256" / 0.264"
405 caliber 0.403" / 0.411" & 0.405" / 0.413"
45 caliber 0.450" / 0.458"

If they would have simply manufactured the correct size bullets in the first place using the ACTUAL groove diameter, like they do for the .22 (0.006"), .243 (0.007"), .257 (0.007"), .277 (0.007"), .284 (0.007") & .375 (0.009"), we would not have the problem of having to use cheap undersized .310", 0.311", or 0.312" diameter bullets or springing for expensive, correctly-sized bullets. Our 8mm shooting brothers go through the same thing with American-produced 8x57JS ammunition (0.320-0.321" bullet diameter), but at least they can easily obtain correctly-sized bullets so they can load their own. That, however, is because the American-made 8mm Remington Magnum, has barrel measurements of 0.315" & 0.323" (there's that 0.004" rifling thickness again)

<<<<END RANT!

Range test to follow in a month or so, after I get some ammunition loaded up and head to the cottage for the next 6 months or so.

Field test will hopefully follow come November & deer season opens here in the Great White North!


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 16219
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #299907 - 02/05/17 03:10 AM

My 2-groove (new barrel) #4 has a groove to groove of .315".
I rechambered it for the .312 Express (see Ken Water's article), and it does 2,960fps with 174gr. Hornady bullet marked .312", using Reloader #19. It has put 3 of those into 1 1/2" at 100 meters off the bags when testing.

It would not shoot 220gr. .308's, although it tried. They didn't keyhole, just shot an open 6" group.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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yumastepside
.275 member


Reged: 25/10/15
Posts: 86
Loc: Tasmania Australia
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Daryl_S]
      #299943 - 02/05/17 05:42 PM

Excuse my ignorance Daryl, but whats a 312 Express? I can't find any reference to it on-line or in any of my books......always interested in something I can put in a "smelly"....that doesn't sound right, anyway you know what I mean

Roger

--------------------
none


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buckbrush
.300 member


Reged: 23/08/07
Posts: 118
Loc: Alberta
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #300120 - 05/05/17 05:29 PM

Quote:

Buckbrush:

The one at Epps that I just bought is NOT a #1 Mk. III. Neither, from the photo provided, is Strathcona's. Look at the cocking piece safety. Now look at the charger bridge. When you see both on 1 rifle, you have what is known as a C.L.L.M./E. (Charger Loading Lee Metford, or C.L.L.Enfield). It is a post-1907 variant of the Long Lee / Lee Metford II* action, ie. a Long Lee, but with a charger loading appurtenance on the top. A lot of the later higher grade sporters, at least the ones I've had, are of this pattern.

just looked at mine, going from your description, it is a charger loading Lee METFORD.

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Old_rifle_nut
.275 member


Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: BSA Sporter for sale/sold [Re: buckbrush]
      #300310 - 11/05/17 12:09 AM

Buckbrush:

What made you arrive at the conclusion that it is a C.L.L.M., rather than a C.L.L.E.?

Just curious.


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