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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched?
      #29882 - 22/04/05 02:38 PM

I was out working up some loads for my Tolley double rifle at a friend's ranch the other day, when at tea time my friend brought a very nice martini with the tea.

This gun had a story, it's good to have a story to tell over tea.
Seems this rifle was one of a battery of guns ordered for -someone- way back when for a safari. This rifle was the last to be delivered, it was handed over before the engraving could be done. The rest of the guns from that pile were fully covered in game scenes and fancy scroll work.
This one has the borders, but no engraving to speak of.
The owner of the gun thinks it came from the francotte shop. I think he's right.
It's set up for 303, it's stamped so too. It has a standing rear for 50, flip blades for 100, 200, and 300 (probabally meters)
It looks like it's set up for paper patched bullets too.

Anyone here ever had or shot a Martini that was set up to shoot paper patched .304 bullets?
Any tricks to get it running right?
Favorite loads?


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: tinker]
      #29899 - 22/04/05 11:27 PM

OK tinker, you've reeled me in...!

In reply to:

It looks like it's set up for paper patched bullets


What makes you think this?

Just (very!) curious...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: Marrakai]
      #29909 - 23/04/05 02:30 AM

*cracks a beer bottle, hands it to Marraki...*

The rifling for one.
Although I haven't slugged it or cast the chamber, the first thing I did after flicking the action open was look at the muzzle crown.
From there things seemed a bit Metford, but as it -was- time for tea I didn't reach for a roundball and a slugging rod and run the thing through the routine...

Got back to the day's shooting and while out on a walk ckecking targets my friend asked if I'd like to shoot the martini. Easy enough to guess the answer there, I took the rifle and a handful of cartridges through a walk of the range hitting targets at various distances.

Cracked a case at the neck.
The gun wasn't accurate at all too.

The rifle has obviously been through a lot of use, seems like it was loved at one time. I'm sure it's accurate somehow with something.
I miked some cartridges from the box he drew the ones out of for me, the bullets were 311, miked the cases that came out of the gun and they didn't show signs of a bad chamber.

I think the .311 bullets were just too damn much for the tube and it may want paper patched bullets of a smaller initial size.

The gun has Belgian proofs, I've heard of metford martinis coming out of belgium. I'm not really much of a martini guy, but this rifle charms me and I'd like to put some time in and get it back on the sights.


Whatchya think Marraki?




--Tinker






--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Oldsarge
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Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: tinker]
      #30131 - 27/04/05 02:33 PM

*Pulls out well-rubbed calabash pipe, fills it with best grade London cut, thoughtfully strikes match and takes a few puffs*

I say, there, Tinker old chap, yer've got a bit of a puzzle, what? Seems t'me, though, that I have somewhere seen a paperpatched .303. Damn-me if I can remember where, though. Went back inter the libr'ry t'check. Can't find a blessed thing, don'tcherknow. Try givin' ALF on AR a jingle. Usually, he's the man f'r Mausers but given his knowledge of Brit calibers and shootin' on safari, yer can't possibly learn less than yer already know. Think I'll bookmark this thread. Like t'see how it comes out. Always fancied the Martini m'self, but only in Cordite, especially after that embarrassin' business at Isldwanda!

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: Oldsarge]
      #30135 - 27/04/05 04:03 PM

Excellent-


Thanks for the hint there.
This particular martini has charmed me and I want to get it shooting.
I have a few projects brewing in the shop these past few weeks, I just put the finishing touches on my steel/brass cartridges for the 16b double rifle tonight. Likely won't get out to shoot it till thursday or friday. While out at the ranch I'll grab the martini and have it home here for slugging and casting.

My dad and his uncle did quite well with a spitzer mould that I have here running gas checks in the '03. It throws .308 bullets. I'll make a die for the lubrisizer to whatever dia. is needed to kick out what the martini seems to want and go from there.
I have a few different types of paper around here that might work, dress patterns, tracing paper, vellum...
I figure something's bound to elegantly fall in line as patch material once I know the skinny on the barrel.


--Tinker


--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: tinker]
      #30137 - 27/04/05 07:53 PM

Henry rifling was always associated with paper patching, Metford rifling was suppose to reduce bore fouling with black powder. It came along at the same time as cordite and got a bum rap.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A Brit-chambered martini, .304 Paper Patched? [Re: tinker]
      #30143 - 27/04/05 09:33 PM

OK Tinker, I'll accept your judgement on that, but my own beliefs probably parallel DoubleD's: Henry rifling for paper-patched lead, Metford rifling for jacketed with black powder.

My own favourite Martini is much less ambiguous: it is an Army & Navy sporter, buff-horn forend-cap, full-length engine-turned rib with banners, and enfield rifling. Shoots extremely well, fast-twist barrel for the 215-grain bullet. Magic!





...just reminded myself to take some better photos of this marvellous rifle next time I bring it out to play!

Have you checked the twist-rate on your mate's rifle, tinker? Most (if not all) metford-rifled barrels would be set up for the 215-grain round-nose bullet. This might go some way towards explaining the ho-hum accuracy...

Hope your friend's Martini brings you as much joy as mine have, tinker!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Judgement? not so much... [Re: Marrakai]
      #30171 - 28/04/05 12:48 PM

Really, I still have little clue as to what to do with this nice martini.

Slugging and casting will no doubt dispell much of the mystery. If all goes well, I'll be out at the ranch tomorrow and have the rifle home at the bench by nightfall. Chasing a slug through that bore will tell me about the twist rate, and I'll get a much closer look at what's up with the inner details.

I figure that all will leave me with more questions and comments.
I'll post back here when I know more.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Judgement? not so much... [Re: tinker]
      #30225 - 29/04/05 01:06 PM

Tinker,

Martinis were made in 303 and issued as police rifles in India in the past. For a long time, the British armed the police with either Martini 303s or, later, with SMLEs with a sealed magazine so that they were converted to single shot as India policemen in the Raj days had a reputation for trigger-happiness.

I am looking at a deluxe Martini in 303 that a member on these forums has suggested to me - it is not in the USA but it is a supremely beautiful rifle and worth the paperwork for importing it here.

Do let us know how your rifle turns out.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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