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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

The-460-Rowland-Conversion
#298435 - 05/04/17 01:47 AM

http://www.brownells.com/GunTech/The-460-Rowland-Conversion/detail.htm?lid=10310

I was in Anchorage this past week on business..while there I attended a few seminars. One of which was a class on handguns for Alaska..Company owned by a husband/wife team teaching handgun, AR-15 and shotgun classes gave their thoughts on handguns, calibers, brands to NOT buy...etc. Spoke to them at length regarding the info after class. One of the rounds they stated was a wildcat at this time but you can buy ammo for it from Buffalo Bore is the 460 Rowland which they stated was reasonable close in performance to a 44mag revolver. The thought is you can buy a glock in 45acp--purchase the conversion kit for roughly $400 and have a 460 Rowland capable of higher capacity than a standard wheel gun..

They have no problem with wheel guns with the exception they are typically heavier and have less capacity..because of the weight issue many times people don't carry or less persistant to do so ..while a glock 21SF isn't petite, it is lighter than a standard 4 or 6" S&W stainless..The other exception was not to buy a Taurus..told me they fire thousands of rounds through various handguns every year..they rent them to people as well if someone doesn't want to use their own gun OR if they just want to try something different..said the Taurus has had very poor performance in their experiences...surprisingly to me at least, also said they have had more then their share of issues with Kimber as well once the round count starts hitting the 2000 and above mark..

Personally and up to this point, here in Montana I carry a titanium S&W 44 mag..lightweight but does limit me to 6 rounds before a reload is necessary..not sure if you would get more than a couple rounds off anyway before the bear was on you..BUT, ???

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298437 - 05/04/17 03:29 AM

Interesting concept - but would the 1911 frame 'take it'?

Mine cracked just from using sized down .45/90 bullets, 300gr., bullets at 800fps with top-end blue-dot loads. Sure was hell on my plate rack - they'd re-set themselves as they bounced back off the stop bar. I check-drilled the crack and it was find after that- same loads.

I remember reading about the Rowland many years ago, but do not remember what gun it was made up on.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298444 - 05/04/17 07:02 AM

I used to carry a Para-Ordnance P14 in 45 Super, I don't think it can match a good revolver in 41- 44Mag or 45 Colt for that matter (hot loaded) 454 or the host of big revolvers now days, sure better bullets now days, but pull the revolver out any time from any angle by any one (you need help up side down in Bears jaws) if it does not work frist pull do it again & fresh round is there ?

I think you are well armed right now by the sound of it !

OK I see 460R is a little more but I still think for big animal's you need a powerful revolver & very big bullets !

Still all are better than a rock !

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Sarg]
#298493 - 05/04/17 11:14 PM

Some info I found off of a GLOCK website chat room..

"Hey Guys,

I used to read the threads here about the 45 super and 460 rowland development (both loads and barrels/comps) with great interest but never invested financially into it. Figured my G29 would suffice. But, I've gotten bored with the 10mm and have some disposable income now to play.

The reason for this new thread is, I am wondering if there are any definitive conclusions as to the best way to setup an all-purpose G21 for 45+P up to 460 Rowland loads. I have a stock Gen 4 21 and would like to have a set up for 45 acp+p / Super for home defense and be able to shoot 255 gr cast as powerful as the gun can withstand within reason as a sidearm when packing out moose up here in Alaska and camping. Reliability of a wide range of loads is most important.

Some specific questions:
Are there actual problems with 45 acp cases being fired in a 460 chamber?
If so, can the 45 super chambering (aftermarket barrel with "full" support) and brass handle 460 level loads?
What are the pros and cons to the many different comps out there?
Is it too much to ask to have one G21 set up to shoot 45 acp+p and 460 rowland reliably?
If you were to start from scratch, with a gen 4 21, what would you buy and from where?

Thanks for any and all information,"

while I believe a 454 Casull or 460 Smith&Wesson have more power, not sure all of that is needed in the heat of the moment..pretty sure in visiting with those who live in AK and have used this type of firearm, the 460 Rowland would do the trick..

It does appear you need a compensator to slow the action down which is what they stated during the seminar I was at as well..might tinker with one of these for something to do..who knows..find it interesting at the minimum....

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298500 - 06/04/17 02:33 AM

Just received this email..

Hi ,

All current conversion kits being made to Johnny Rowland's 460 Rowland specifications can be found at www.460Rowland.com .

Best Regards,
Wayne Brown
Buffalo Bore Ammo

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298501 - 06/04/17 02:51 AM

Interesting, 2 different Glock models 21 and 30, 1911's and S&W .45's.

I think a ported .500 S&W would be my preference on bear-carry. I fired one a while back at the club, with factory Hornady and it kicked less, was actually comfortable to shoot, compared to my 4" m29 shooting 300gr. commercial cast bullets and H110/W296 I had been shooting that day.
I was able to smash 2, 6" diameter granite rocks on the 50 meter bank with 2 successive shots, just standing 2 handed. Seemed to hit well for me and was fun to shoot. My 4" M29 is NO fun with those loads. I had the round butt rubber grip on it that day.

I must say, though, when I was using a 1911 with 300gr. bullets for informal combat matches I put on for the guys I instructed, I had total confidence in the pistol, just as I do in my wheelguns.

The .460 Rowland conversion should be no different, except maybe my right wrist would not be able to handle the recoil. I need more weight in the gun.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298516 - 06/04/17 06:47 AM

Quote:

Interesting, 2 different Glock models 21 and 30, 1911's and S&W .45's.

I think a ported .500 S&W would be my preference on bear-carry. I fired one a while back at the club, with factory Hornady and it kicked less, was actually comfortable to shoot, compared to my 4" m29 shooting 300gr. commercial cast bullets and H110/W296 I had been shooting that day.
I was able to smash 2, 6" diameter granite rocks on the 50 meter bank with 2 successive shots, just standing 2 handed. Seemed to hit well for me and was fun to shoot. My 4" M29 is NO fun with those loads. I had the round butt rubber grip on it that day.

I must say, though, when I was using a 1911 with 300gr. bullets for informal combat matches I put on for the guys I instructed, I had total confidence in the pistol, just as I do in my wheelguns.

The .460 Rowland conversion should be no different, except maybe my right wrist would not be able to handle the recoil. I need more weight in the gun.

Yes but Daryl, you are not just a mere mortal..

I would like to try one and see how it works..I shot a 460SW with a 3" barrel a year ago for an afternoon..did not like it..the axis seems way to high for me and just not balanced at all ..

Had a Glock model 20SF redone..custom barrel, trigger, stippling on the grip...had the knuckle buster trigger guard smoothed over and trijicon sights..shoots really well and is very comfortable to shoot..have a feeling based solely on what I read, the 460 might be somewhat of a different story

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DarylS
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298519 - 06/04/17 07:46 AM

Don't know about that, Art - feeling more mortal every day, it seems.
The .500 WAS easy, though, in comparison. I think a light-weight .460 Rowland might be a handful, however grips & angles along with hand dimensions are very important in what is felt in recoil.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298565 - 06/04/17 11:36 PM

Quote:

Don't know about that, Art - feeling more mortal every day, it seems.
The .500 WAS easy, though, in comparison. I think a light-weight .460 Rowland might be a handful, however grips & angles along with hand dimensions are very important in what is felt in recoil.

Trust me--its the same for ALL of us.. unfortunately..

But beats the alternative..

Will let you know how this goes...

Ripp

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DarylS
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298582 - 07/04/17 03:26 AM

Biting the bullet, eh. Good - will be interesting. The arthritis in the right wrist is bothersome with recoil of my .44. I started shooting .44 spl. loads, 200gr. at 900-1,000fps and they were fun again.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rell
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298588 - 07/04/17 05:08 AM

Wilson Combat makes one.

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/hunter/

I have three Wilsons, 2 45s and a 9mm. Can't say enough good things about them.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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DarylS
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Rell]
#298595 - 07/04/17 08:13 AM

I put a Wilson barrel, bushing and links in my .45 Colt 1911 - originally a .38Super.

I shot the Super for a while, even made my own brass out of .38SPL and .357 Mag. - worked just fine, but I really wanted a .45, so I changed it. Really freaked out the local constable when I changed the registration over - actually that I was able to do it so easily.

I ported the barrel (3 holes each side) and slide (slot), and after that could clean the 10 yard falling plate (6) rack in 2 seconds including the draw. An RCMP buddy who used to shoot with us at the jail range, timed it.

My best was with the 300gr. at 550 to 600fps - LOL - I'd be on the third plate before the 1st fell over. What a blast.

A 9mm could not tip a plate over unless it hit within 1/2" of the top edge. The 300's bowled them over with a hit anywhere. Even a factory .38SPL would knock them over with a center hit with 158gr.RN factory, from my 4" Colt. Pretty funny, actually. Guy with the P35 didn't think so.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ducmarc
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298610 - 07/04/17 11:49 AM

I got the compensator the heavy springs and the reamer just need to order the ammo to headspace it.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Ripp
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: DarylS]
#298616 - 07/04/17 12:03 PM

Quote:

I put a Wilson barrel, bushing and links in my .45 Colt 1911 - originally a .38Super.

I shot the Super for a while, even made my own brass out of .38SPL and .357 Mag. - worked just fine, but I really wanted a .45, so I changed it. Really freaked out the local constable when I changed the registration over - actually that I was able to do it so easily.

I ported the barrel (3 holes each side) and slide (slot), and after that could clean the 10 yard falling plate (6) rack in 2 seconds including the draw. An RCMP buddy who used to shoot with us at the jail range, timed it.

My best was with the 300gr. at 550 to 600fps - LOL - I'd be on the third plate before the 1st fell over. What a blast.

A 9mm could not tip a plate over unless it hit within 1/2" of the top edge. The 300's bowled them over with a hit anywhere. Even a factory .38SPL would knock them over with a center hit with 158gr.RN factory, from my 4" Colt. Pretty funny, actually. Guy with the P35 didn't think so.

Interesting reading this..and how the 9mm would not tip over the plates..

YEARS ago there was an indoor shooting facility here in Bozeman..they had league shooting at night..shooting bowling pins sitting on sheets of plywood..the 45's would blow them right off the board..I was shooting a Beretta 92 in 9mm..unless hit them perfectly, would have to shoot them more than once to get them off of the board..went to a 45 after that..

Ripp

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DarylS
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Re: The-460-Rowland-Conversion [Re: Ripp]
#298628 - 07/04/17 03:04 PM

The MOST interesting result was the 158gr. RN's at 850fps (factory specs) had the momentum to knock the plates over with hits that would only giggle them if hit with a 9mm, even rapid fire in the same centre-spot - jiggle-jiggle-jiggle.

The rack of plates I made from photos of others in the States, in the jail's machine shop - complete with adjustment screws. They were adjusted to allow centre hits from our .38s to knock over the plates, but not the 9mm's unless a top hit was made.
I also welded up a Peter-The-Power-Meter, from the late Jeff Cooper's plans.

It was my game, my rules.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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