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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Muzzle Breaks
      #29754 - 19/04/05 10:15 PM

I just finished looking at Wild West's page and was immediately drawn to the proguide rifle. That was at least until I saw the muzzle break sticking out past the front sight.

I have a friend with a breaked .375, and twice now he has sustained severe pain when fast shots were required on polar bears at his house. I also fired that rifle once forgetting about the break, and found that the break induced pain was far worse than any surviveable recoil. He hid his rifle when I went looking for a chop saw! Another memeorable experience I had was when I stood behind a fellow shooting a breaked .30/378 Weatherby.

What is the concensus among big bore shooters out there? Do brakes help, or do they just exchange one problem, (recoil) for a worse one, (redirected muzzle blast)?
Mike

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: Boomer]
      #29762 - 20/04/05 12:39 AM

Mike,

I had a braked .300wby some years ago. It was so loud that I rarely used it (the brake that is, since it was removable), and will most likely never ever own a rifle with a muzzlebrake again.

A far better solution (where legal) is to use a suppresor/silencer. The BR-Reflex pictured below is designed for use on hunting rifles.



Obviously it won't make all the sound go away, but it'll take away the kick, and bring down the sound level to a reasonable level. Quite a lot of hunters are now beginning to use them here in Norway to protect their hearing while out hunting in the woods.

Erik

Edited to clearify my post a little...

Edited by ErikD (24/04/05 04:48 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: Boomer]
      #29768 - 20/04/05 04:56 AM

Boomer

I won't shoot with anyone using a mussle break.

Yes, I think they do exchange one problem, (recoil) for a worse one,
(redirected muzzle blast AND MUCH NOISIER)

If you can't handle the recoil, you shouldn't be handling the rifle !!!

500 Nitro

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Metswedi
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Yorks. England
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: 500Nitro]
      #29774 - 20/04/05 07:07 AM

I have to agree with Jack Lott. "My shoulder is a lot tougher than my ears" Hearing loss from gunfire is cummulative and irreversible. Muzzle brakes belong on artillery pieces period.

More shooters in the UK are using moderators to protect their hearing or using electronic "in the ear" protectors. (Mostly shotgunners, difficult to fit a moderator to a SxS ). In fact Police Forces are increasingly being sympathetic to applications for licensed moderators because of the threat of Health & Safety regulations that would leave them liable to litigation if they refused an application and the shooter suffered hearing loss. Makes perfect sense, moderators are very common on rimfire rifles for pest control and a good moderator on a .243 reduces the sound level to that of a .22 rimfire. My mate has one on a 30.06 and it significantly reduces recoil too.

--------------------
Perfer et obdura!

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csutton7
.275 member


Reged: 17/02/05
Posts: 70
Loc: SF, CA
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: Metswedi]
      #29948 - 24/04/05 01:52 AM

Vais brakes get good reviews as redirecting the ka-boom away from the shooter and helping recoil--

http://www.muzzlebrakes.com/

........although I know this goes without saying or it should---use hearing protection when shooting or even if you're just along with someone who shoots whether they have a brake or not and stand to the rear of anyone shooting at the range or while hunting and insert fingers--chris

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: csutton7]
      #29957 - 24/04/05 07:12 AM

I use to work for KDF. I have installed and shot a bunch of muzzle breaks.

They serve several purposes. First they do reduce recoil. All the ones we tested and we tested everybody's, worked and worked well. Second they allowed you to keep your sights/scope on target. Third, they dissapated sound and made it difficult to determine from down range where the shot came from.

There are a couple of negatives. Sound they did not increase sound, they redirected sound. Instead of sending sound down range they sent sound sidways. Kind of like when someone faces you and talks to you and turns around with their back to you and talks to you. Same sound different direction. Muzzle blast. Again instead of being blasted down range it is going out sideways. You must be sure there are no objects to the side of the muzzle when you shoot. Those high speed expanding gases diverted by a tree trunk or boulder can sting worse than a mad blondes slap!

VIAS brake claims are good marketing, nothing is changed any more than the other brakes. All brakes effectiveness was based on perception. In the VIAS Sound and blast is directed at a slight angle forward. The perception is that it is quieter. Well from the shooters stand point it is indeed. But noise is not reduced. It's just going a different direction. I can tell you that from the shooting stand point I came away with the perception that the VIAS didn't reduce recoil as much as the others. But we were never able to measure that. And, I was shooting a lot of rounds through the KDF brake. I could feel a bad round. None the less the recoil was reduced.

Places for muzzle brakes. Heavy recoiling target or varmint hunting rifles. We made a 4 inch long KDF style brake and put it on a big 50 cal BMG long range target rifle. It worked better that ony of those tank gun brakes. You didn't want to stand to either side of it when it fired, even with ear muffs on.

We had a .22-250 with a brake on it and there wasn't a better gun for long range prairie dog shooting. It was vary easy to pick up the misses at long rang in the scope. Recoil didn't pull the scope off target. In the same light with virtually no recoil it was much easier to see the red mist effect and verify your hits. Of course the other thing that makes the muzzle brake work so good in these venues is they are normally shot while wearing hearing protection.

I have one rifle with a Muzzle brake, it is a K-15 in 308 Norma Mag that was given me when i left the company. It came with the brake.



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DD, Ret.

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SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: DoubleD]
      #29974 - 24/04/05 03:49 PM

The redirection of the sound and the blast is my biggest problem with a muzzle break. The shooter gets a big advantage, not the rest of the guys around or behind him. When hunting DG and a hunter uses a muzzle break, the PH usually suffers. Even if the PH wears ear protection the shock waves will stun him and he is temporary disorientated, this at a time when the he must be ready to provide back up in a maybe potentially dangerous situation.

Personally I will never use a muzzle break, if I cannot handle the recoil I will make the riffle heavier or reduce the load.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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DBBill
.300 member


Reged: 25/05/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: SAHUNT]
      #30361 - 01/05/05 05:36 PM

I have Vais brakes on 3 rifles and they are the only brake I've ever seen at the range that don't draw dirty looks from the folks on the next benches.

The key to the Vais brake is the fact the gas is in the brake longer and doesn't exit as fast because the gas from the internal chambers collides at 90 degrees effectively slowing it down....less velcoity coming out the holes equates to less noise and especially less blast back to the shooter. I agree they are marginally less effective than other brakes but what little you give up in recoil reduction is more than compensated for with a lot less blast.

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Bigfive
Sponsor


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Freestate,South-Africa
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: DBBill]
      #30445 - 03/05/05 08:19 PM

Hi all,
I shoot a 460WBY MAG wich is built on a old 458 Brno rifle.The rifle lacks the weight for a big cal like this so I had first fitted a recoil compensator inside the stock and then later a muzzlebreak.It works fantastic.Dropped at least 30% by doing this.The noise is much more but when on the range you always have muffs andf when hunting just get battery operated earplugs that only works on loud sounds so when you are in the bush/forest you can hear all the normal sounds perfectly well except your gunshot gets blocked out.

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: Bigfive]
      #30453 - 03/05/05 10:51 PM

Before anyone says I did, I want it understood, I am not endorsing muzzle brakes. Muzzlebrakes have their places and it isn't on most most rifles.

If you do think you must have a muzzle break on a hunting rifle the only one I could recommend is the Brockman switichable muzzle break. You can open it up for shooting on the range, then close it when in the field.

I have a muzzle brake on the K-15 that KDF gave me but I don't shot it much any more. I don't realy think it's needed on the 308 Norma, but it's there. That's the only muzzle break I have on all my guns. I am considering when I have to rebuild my 22-250 putting a muzzle brake on it so I can see the red rainbow effect!



--------------------
DD, Ret.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Muzzle Breaks [Re: DoubleD]
      #30738 - 08/05/05 01:46 PM

I agree with DoubleD..I will state that I hear a lot of ca-ca about muzzle brakes thats just hand me down bla-bla by folks who actually have not used them a heck of a lot...

I see little difference in sound if it is a proper brake and I know the blast of a 378 and other large bores will hurt your hearing with or without a brake...

Many of out clients show up every year in Tanzania, Zimbabwe, RSA, Mozambique, Bostswana with brakes on big guns...We know the brake is on the gun and we make that adjustment, God gave us fingers and earplugs for just such ocassions and if they help a client shoot, and they really do, then we don't have to look old Mbogo, Simba, or Tembo in the eye up close...So I say if the brake helps you then shoot them.

I shot them for a few years with big bores and as a result of taking them off on ocassion I learned to handle any kind of recoil and over a two or three year period left them off more and more and today I don't use them any more, I don't need to..but my big bores are still bloody loud, and I am to smart to be standing next to one going off, but hey, that only happens when you head is up your a$$, and thats no place for your head on a dangerous game hunt.....Most brakes can be taken off and replaced with a thread protector of some sort..Use them at the range and take them off when you hunt, most will maintain the same POI in my experience...if not then leave them on.

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