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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Shotgunlover
.224 member


Reged: 24/08/13
Posts: 38
Loc: Greece
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #289247 - 20/10/16 06:18 AM

Love the opening "trigger" style lever. Though I cannot tell if it is in fact a lever or a sliding actuator. What powers the underbolt? A V or coil spring?

As for the whole concept, it is turning me into a bar in the wood fan. Amazing work!

--------------------
Shotgunlover


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DeweyVicknair
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: Shotgunlover]
      #289274 - 21/10/16 08:33 AM

Quote:

Love the opening "trigger" style lever. Though I cannot tell if it is in fact a lever or a sliding actuator. What powers the underbolt? A V or coil spring?

As for the whole concept, it is turning me into a bar in the wood fan. Amazing work!




It slides.
All of the springs are of either the V or leaf type, except for the firing pin retraction springs (coils).
The bolt spring is a V, situated vertically behind the bolt.

--------------------
Only elephants need ivory.


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DeweyVicknair
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #290184 - 12/11/16 11:01 AM

The left and right firing pin bushings, firing pins, springs and vent screws.








The blank for the forend iron with a portion of the bar of 1020 from which it was machined.




With the barrel breeches brazed, the barrels blacked down and the bolts fit, and the assembly proof-fired, I rewarded myself with some fun work. That work is chiseling the fences.









Edited by CptCurl (14/11/16 10:34 PM)


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metal
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Reged: 30/04/13
Posts: 35
Loc: Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #290196 - 12/11/16 04:32 PM

Phenomenal work there Dewey, respect! Can't wait to see if you are a master in wood as well, if you can shape metal like that then the wood will be a piece of cake.
Regards,
Metal.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: metal]
      #290306 - 14/11/16 10:36 PM

This is fascinating. Thanks so much for letting us watch.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Matabele
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: CptCurl]
      #290321 - 15/11/16 08:20 AM

Amazing work, you must be getting excited to fire this! One thing I've wondered is how you continue the knuckle radius up to the edge of the table? I can imagine setting the action up sideways and cutting most of the knuckle on a rotary table...but how do you continue that arc?

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DeweyVicknair
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Reged: 29/12/14
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: Matabele]
      #290329 - 15/11/16 11:36 AM

Quote:

Amazing work, you must be getting excited to fire this! One thing I've wondered is how you continue the knuckle radius up to the edge of the table? I can imagine setting the action up sideways and cutting most of the knuckle on a rotary table...but how do you continue that arc?




Thanks. The knuckle was filed by hand, no rotary table.



Edited by CptCurl (16/11/16 09:33 PM)


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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 184
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #290340 - 15/11/16 04:38 PM

Could you set it up horizontal in the dividing head/rotary table using a stub through the hinge pin hole, supported by a tailstock ???

Being that it should (?) be on a radius with the hinge pin centre.


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DeweyVicknair
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Reged: 29/12/14
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #290350 - 16/11/16 01:23 AM

Quote:

Could you set it up horizontal in the dividing head/rotary table using a stub through the hinge pin hole, supported by a tailstock ???

Being that it should (?) be on a radius with the hinge pin centre.




I don't understand your question, the action knuckle is done. It is most assuredly round and concentric with the hinge pin and no complex machine setup was required, indeed no machine was used.
The only tools used were 00, 2, 4 and 6 cut, flat files.

--------------------
Only elephants need ivory.


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Matabele
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Reged: 16/09/10
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #290362 - 16/11/16 07:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Amazing work, you must be getting excited to fire this! One thing I've wondered is how you continue the knuckle radius up to the edge of the table? I can imagine setting the action up sideways and cutting most of the knuckle on a rotary table...but how do you continue that arc?




Thanks. The knuckle was filed by hand, no rotary table.






Looks perfect to me! Thanks for the explanation.

Edited by CptCurl (16/11/16 09:34 PM)


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twobobbwana
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 184
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: Matabele]
      #290383 - 16/11/16 11:46 AM

Dewey,

I'm not questioning your methods or the quality of your work.

I'm merely saying that would an alternate/possible method to cut the radius of the knuckle be to make a mandrell (extended hinge pin if you will) attach it to your rotary table (set up vertically) with a tailstock to support it and machine it that way ???

I'm just suggesting this method for we mere mortals who may not be as good with a file, dividers and a square as you.

No matter how achieve your results please keep us updated as I find this project amazing.


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DeweyVicknair
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Reged: 29/12/14
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #290389 - 16/11/16 01:02 PM

Quote:

Dewey,

I'm not questioning your methods or the quality of your work.

I'm merely saying that would an alternate/possible method to cut the radius of the knuckle be to make a mandrell (extended hinge pin if you will) attach it to your rotary table (set up vertically) with a tailstock to support it and machine it that way ???

I'm just suggesting this method for we mere mortals who may not be as good with a file, dividers and a square as you.

No matter how achieve your results please keep us updated as I find this project amazing.




No worries, I didn't think you were questioning my work, I simply didn't get your question.
The rotary table idea would be perfectly workable. Believe me, no one is more of a mere mortal than myself. To prove it, I'll tell you how such a perfect radius can be achieved with files alone.
I turned two guides whose internal diameter perfectly fit the hinge pin hole and whose outer diameter matched the finished radius of the knuckle, they were then hardened and when plugged into each side of the frame, provided a positive guide to file down to. The fit is perfectly light-tight to the forend iron and concentric to the hinge.

--------------------
Only elephants need ivory.


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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 184
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #290424 - 17/11/16 11:35 AM

Dewey,

That sounds perfectly feasible. Hardened plugs that your file won't cut down past. Fixed to the hinge pin reference point and providing the required radius.

A marvel in simplicity.

Saves on all kind of jigs I've seen.

When we get too dependant on machinery we forget what magic can be done with files, buttons, squares, templates etc. It's the way it had to be done back before milling machines, lathes, shapers became more common..........let alone the "white man's magic" of cnc.

Thank you for explaining this.

Keep up the great work.


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #290428 - 17/11/16 01:56 PM

Dewey - I, A mere mortal, am amazed at your work. I have mailed pictures from this thread to friends who are amazing artisans in their own right - they-too are equally amazed at your metal. It borders or exceeds the GREATS of best English workmanship.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 184
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: Daryl_S]
      #294542 - 31/01/17 11:46 AM

Dewey,

Can you share more progress on this build with us ??


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dudleybm
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 24
Loc: Rochester, NY
Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #295191 - 13/02/17 12:41 PM

Wow Dewey! I have not checked in on this project since early on. What progress. I could not imagine having to inlet that action into the final stock. I am just trying to figure out how it drops into it. Looks like it pushes straight back into the stock.?

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DeweyVicknair
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Reged: 29/12/14
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Loc: Lititz, PA United States
Re: In the beginning... [Re: dudleybm]
      #297455 - 21/03/17 10:04 AM

Paying work and a design change are getting in the way of my progress.
I changed the entire lockwork for a couple of reasons. The first is that having the outer (false) lockplates be removable simply to look at the lockwork seemed like less of a good idea the longer I pondered it.
The second is that I wasn't happy with the effort needed to close the self-opening design when the added weight of the barrels was taken with it. It wasn't difficult but it wasn't pleasing either and the spring opening combined with the weight of the barrels made for a rifle that felt like it was going to jump out of the hands when it was opened. The weight of the rifle barrels can be put to much better use in a conventional cock-on-opening design. So, that is what I did but in a way inspired by Westley Richards' hand-detachable boxlock. The locks are removable with no tools after the outer plates are removed. The lock frames are machined with integral sear and tumbler pivots,like the WR, but those pivots are also supported by the inboard lockplate, which also serves to locate the lock frame.

Photos and video are below (all of the innards, except the lockwork and cocking mechanism, are removed).







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzHMpHTtBTE&feature=youtu.be

Brian, the frame "rocks" into the stock, starting at the knuckle.

--------------------
Only elephants need ivory.


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MMBA
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Reged: 12/12/15
Posts: 89
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #297470 - 21/03/17 12:25 PM

Dewey (if I may) this thread is astonishing and Thankyou for posting. A "hands on" peek at how a double is made is a real treat. Please keep it coming.

Thankyou
Dirk
MMBA


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4seventyModerator
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2104
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #297561 - 22/03/17 06:38 PM

Dewey, I just cannot find the words to describe the quality of your work. It is truly amazing, and not just your level of skill in working with steel, but also your ability to design all the pieces to create a very interesting double rifle action.
Thank you for taking the time to show these great photos and explain how the build is progressing.


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1005
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: In the beginning... [Re: 4seventy]
      #297581 - 23/03/17 07:23 AM

Absolutely fantastic work & skill, thank you very much for going to the trouble of showing us mere mortals your work, makes one feel inadequate really ! !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
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Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: Sarg]
      #297594 - 23/03/17 11:50 AM

I always felt that the Perazzi removable trigger system would be good on a double rifle.

They do coil spring and leaf spring versions.

Once again Dewey fantastic work and thanks for posting it.


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #297595 - 23/03/17 11:54 AM

Not too sure about the Perazzi trigger - they sure like to break often. That is why every Perazzi trap shooter has his trigger replacement kit at a trap shoot. Either he or perhaps 2 or 3 others will need it. I was going to say might, but will is quite likely, more appropriate.


--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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DeweyVicknair
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Reged: 29/12/14
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #297600 - 23/03/17 01:19 PM

A Perazzi-type, detachable trigger/lockwork unit has been done on a double by Abbiatico & Salvinelli (FAMARS)in their Avantis model. That it has been done is why I chose not to.



--------------------
Only elephants need ivory.


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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
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Re: In the beginning... [Re: DeweyVicknair]
      #297675 - 24/03/17 12:05 PM

Darryl,

I wonder if the "often breaking" Perazzi triggers are coils or v springs ???

Saw a beautiful Perazzi (SC3 or SCO ??) once but it had the crack in the elbow of the v spring.

It surprises me that any gun designed for the heavy use of a trap gun would be that fragile.

Dewey,

Other than it already being done do you think the idea has merit ???

A sidelock should be about the easiest to adapt to a triggerplate type action. Instead of the elements of the mechanism being mounted to individual sideplates that are mounted to the frame, they should "easily" adapt to a central mounting on a triggerplate.

Being that we revere back action sidelocks for double rifles - leaves more steel in the elbow of the action to inhibit flexing - why wouldn't a back action sidelock type action with the locks mounted on a trigger plate be equally desirable.

Perhaps the Max Ern lock (roller on mainspring acting directly on the back of the hammer), in one of the Shooting Sportsman articles, would also be a desirable extension of this idea.

I think the ability to quickly interchange locks in the safari camp due to breakage is an overstated "selling point" ............that would be, of course, until I needed to do so.

It may just be a case of "better to have it and not need it .......... than need it and not have it".

Just kicking this around fellas !!!!!


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 945
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: In the beginning... [Re: twobobbwana]
      #297731 - 24/03/17 10:08 PM

Dewey, very nice work, lovely shapes and curves. Neat little video as well, you can see in it how easy and smooth that gun is to open. Very nice.

The Max Ern roller on mainspring was also used in the Dickson trigger plate lock, I think McKay Brown uses the same system.

As far as the removable trigger group goes, I think it is a great idea. Having a gun where the difficult to repair parts are easily removed in the field for servicing or inspection and cleaning is very handy in the middle of the bush. One of the many reasons that I drive a LandCruiser, easy to repair in the bush if you need to.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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