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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Rell
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Posts: 522
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Blind magazine for DG rifle?
      #296836 - 12/03/17 12:44 AM

I'm having Joe Smithson build me a 8lbs 375 H&H on a GMA small ring action. It will have a 22 inch barrel with integral machines front sight base, rear island base and sling swivel. Mounted in his Carbon fiber stock and using his QR rings.

The question is should I get a blind magazine or use the bottom metal on the GMA action? Blind magazine is lighter by 1/3 pound but ....

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Rule303
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rell]
      #296860 - 12/03/17 10:24 AM

If weight is your main concern go the blind mag. If function a concern do the floor plate. I prefer floor plates for simplicity of unloading and cleaning.

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eagle27
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rule303]
      #296869 - 12/03/17 11:18 AM

For the first time ever I have a blind magazine in my deer rifle and actually find it quite good. One less thing to clean and of course with no floor plate nothing to get scratched or worn in the bluing from carrying. Cosmetic things I know but I haven't found anything that would make me not want a blind magazine. Easy with a push feed to slip the bolt back and forward allowing the rounds to roll out into the hand when reloading, can probably achieve this as fast as a hinged floor plate unload.

I don't know if it was just an affectation like several other things when it comes to dangerous game rifles but I understand that in earlier times the hinged floor plate was glued or taped shut to prevent accidental opening in the heat of the moment. My Mauser 404 came from Rhodesia in that state and I can't imagine it was the only rifle thus modified.

There are stories around, one of a famous American film star who faced a charge when on safari in Africa who dumped his cartridges on the ground, and of another who racked the bolt and emptied the magazine without firing a shot. I suppose these things can happen to some in the heat of the moment.

Back to blind magazines on a DG rifle, I guess if you have a monumental jam up in the breach and magazine then being able to open the magazine to help clear the jam may be an advantage but of course you are not going to do this if facing a charge i.e. where the dangerous game bit enters the scene.

Once you do open a hinged magazine you lose your rounds and the ability to feed a single round from the magazine if it is a controlled feed rifle which has to feed from the magazine, unless the extractor has been modified to snap over the cartridge rim.

When you consider all this it seems that in terms of a dangerous situation i.e. facing a charge or an imminent one, then neither magazine type offers any advantage over another.

As for cleaning I imagine most like me remove the action from the stock after gnarly hunting conditions e.g. dust, rain, snow or marine environment, and give our rifles and stock a good clean out so the magazine type again doesn't make much difference.


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Rule303
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: eagle27]
      #296872 - 12/03/17 12:03 PM

eagle, I had blind magazine rifles and went away from them because of the cleaning and unloading. I, unlike your good self, don't take the rifle out of the stock unless I really have to. The cleaning of dust, debris, mud, snow etc while hunting, the hinged floor plate works best of the two. When I get home is the only time I will remove a stock and only if I don't think it is really warranted. Mind you most of my rifles are Ceracoated and synthetic stocked. Those that are not ceracoted I rub Gilly Stephenson's Gun wax/polish into the timber and all metal parts. Yes, I am becoming lazy in my old age.

I was sold a replacement and supposedly better hinged floor plate for my Rem 700 in 35Whelen. Like you said, it undid on the first shot. Threw that away and put back the bog standard Rem floor plate, no further issues.


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eagle27
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rule303]
      #296890 - 12/03/17 05:50 PM

Quote:

eagle, I had blind magazine rifles and went away from them because of the cleaning and unloading. I, unlike your good self, don't take the rifle out of the stock unless I really have to. The cleaning of dust, debris, mud, snow etc while hunting, the hinged floor plate works best of the two. When I get home is the only time I will remove a stock and only if I don't think it is really warranted. Mind you most of my rifles are Ceracoated and synthetic stocked. Those that are not ceracoted I rub Gilly Stephenson's Gun wax/polish into the timber and all metal parts. Yes, I am becoming lazy in my old age.

I was sold a replacement and supposedly better hinged floor plate for my Rem 700 in 35Whelen. Like you said, it undid on the first shot. Threw that away and put back the bog standard Rem floor plate, no further issues.




Just for clarity I only take my action out of the stock once home (not in the field) and only after an extended hunt in poor weather conditions or where I have been scrub bashing and have brought back half a mountainside of leaves and twigs in the rifle. I free float my barrels generously so I can tip out debris and pull an oily cloth along between the stock and barrel. Like yourself I apply a coating of rust preventative to part of the action and barrel hidden in the stock, but like to occasionally pull the action to check and clean the trigger, safety etc.

One advantage of a blind magazine in a plastic stocked rifle is that it adds to rigidity, or so they say it does, although there are other ways of 'rigidizing' a plastic fantastic.

My Mauser DG rifle has a hinged magazine but I wouldn't be too fazed if it had a blind magazine.

I must admit I had only heard about the 'nuisance' aspect of blind magazines having never had or used one until I got my cheap little Marlin in 7mm-08. I'm converted but not exclusively, just haven't come across anything adverse to them.

To the OP you can always convert a rifle to a hinged magazine but can't go the other way round without a new stock, food for thought.


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xausa
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: eagle27]
      #296920 - 13/03/17 12:45 AM

The other advantage of a blind magazine, other than weight reduction, is that you don't need to worry about the magazine cover latch failing, spilling the contents of the magazine on the ground at a tense moment. It has never happened to me, but I have read accounts of it happening, for instance with "Bwana" Cottar and his .35 Newton.

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Postman
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: xausa]
      #296921 - 13/03/17 02:24 AM

This is another one of those which is best discussions with not necessarily a "right" answer. I like a DM because I need to load /unload when getting in and out of vehicles and at other times during the hunt, and I really dislike policing ejected loaded cartridges out of deep snow, mud, leaf piles, etc.....

It is strictly forbidden to have a loaded rifle in a motorized vehicle, boat ATV etc in Canada where I do the vast majority of my hunting so a DM becomes quite convenient.

I have never had the misfortune of losing a DM in a good quality rifle, although I have experienced popped floor plates AND issues with DMs when not properly inserted in the cheaper Remington rifles that I found much favour with as a younger poorer man.

I now like my Sako Kodiak .375 with DM and had absolutely no worries about losing a mag on my last DG hunt. I'm familiar with the rifle and I trust it now after some good time in the bush with it.

I do have a Heym Express .416 Rigby on order and yet to be delivered, but I honestly don't recall which type of mag it has!!!????? I guess I'll find out on delivery. It won't bug me much either way and I'll adapt as required, so long as whichever system it uses works as designed.


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Ripp
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rule303]
      #296922 - 13/03/17 02:36 AM

Quote:

If weight is your main concern go the blind mag. If function a concern do the floor plate. I prefer floor plates for simplicity of unloading and cleaning.




+1

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #296954 - 13/03/17 09:37 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Rell, some great advice above but if you plan to hunt in some wet and remote locations, I like to have a floor plate. It makes it easier to drain and clean out the water, and other crap.
The alternative "Tac" that I use on blind magazine rifles (and great for all hunting rifles), is to Cerakote (Air Cure version), all the metal surfaces. This gives all but in particular the inaccessible/under the stock metal surfaces of your rifle, some robust protection from corrosion, whilst in the field.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Ripp
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Homer]
      #296957 - 13/03/17 09:52 AM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

Rell, some great advice above but if you plan to hunt in some wet and remote locations, I like to have a floor plate. It makes it easier to drain and clean out the water, and other crap.
The alternative "Tac" that I use on blind magazine rifles (and great for all hunting rifles), is to Cerakote (Air Cure version), all the metal surfaces. This gives all but in particular the inaccessible/under the stock metal surfaces of your rifle, some robust protection from corrosion, whilst in the field.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer




Homer,

Very good point..

Did the Cerakote to my Sako for the last trip over there...works great...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Ripp]
      #296967 - 13/03/17 12:19 PM

Hinged floorplate vs Blind magazine?

No brainer. On a custom rifle, floorplate. Blind magazine is a cost saving idea on cheapo rifles only. Or where the action design makes it impossible.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 711
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Postman]
      #296987 - 13/03/17 04:36 PM

Quote:

This is another one of those which is best discussions with not necessarily a "right" answer. I like a DM because I need to load /unload when getting in and out of vehicles and at other times during the hunt, and I really dislike policing ejected loaded cartridges out of deep snow, mud, leaf piles, etc.....

It is strictly forbidden to have a loaded rifle in a motorized vehicle, boat ATV etc in Canada where I do the vast majority of my hunting so a DM becomes quite convenient.

I have never had the misfortune of losing a DM in a good quality rifle, although I have experienced popped floor plates AND issues with DMs when not properly inserted in the cheaper Remington rifles that I found much favour with as a younger poorer man.

I now like my Sako Kodiak .375 with DM and had absolutely no worries about losing a mag on my last DG hunt. I'm familiar with the rifle and I trust it now after some good time in the bush with it.

I do have a Heym Express .416 Rigby on order and yet to be delivered, but I honestly don't recall which type of mag it has!!!????? I guess I'll find out on delivery. It won't bug me much either way and I'll adapt as required, so long as whichever system it uses works as designed.




I would agree a DM does have advantages when wanting to remove cartridges from a rifle although I do know of several who have lost their DMs in the field. My nephew was one, high up in the Alps and snow after Tahr and didn't know what caused him to look down, perhaps a slight noise but low and behold here was the DM from his Tikka T3 slowing disappearing in the snow, very lucky as it was a helicopter trip in for a week. Of course he could have used the Tikka single shot but not ideal on Tahr.

Here in NZ our firearms laws are similar in terms of a loaded firearm in a vehicle but that also includes rounds in a DM even when detached from the rifle i.e. a charged magazine in a compartment in a vehicle is a loaded firearm. This is used to judge intent when apprehending poachers or crims.

I suppose it depends on the firearm but I find emptying my Marlin blind magazine easier and less likely to spill cartridges than flipping the hinged mag on my Mauser and spilling cartridges into the hand without dropping on the ground.

I have used the 303 SMLE rifles a lot and they do have a good solid clipped in DM but other rifles I'm always a little wary of them.

I don't really have a preference blind or hinged and take the point about custom rifles or cheaper rifles but that is something I don't personally really care for anyway. I by far prefer functionality over looks provided it is not butt fugly but others have their preferences too.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: eagle27]
      #296988 - 13/03/17 05:27 PM

Three discussions going on here?

Blind magazine - I assume this means the magzine is entirely internal and only accessed through underneath the bolt.

Floorpate - magazine well can be accessed and cartridges removed by opening the floorplate.

Detachable Magazine - magazine can be removed. And loaded separate from the rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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gryphon
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #296990 - 13/03/17 07:22 PM

Quote:

Hinged floorplate vs Blind magazine?

No brainer. On a custom rifle, floorplate. Blind magazine is a cost saving idea on cheapo rifles only. Or where the action design makes it impossible.




I believe some say that the blind mag version offers a stiffer (more accurate?) use.

I am a floo rplate fella myself.

--------------------
How will I know if I dont ask you experts?


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Rule303
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: eagle27]
      #296992 - 13/03/17 08:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

eagle, I had blind magazine rifles and went away from them because of the cleaning and unloading. I, unlike your good self, don't take the rifle out of the stock unless I really have to. The cleaning of dust, debris, mud, snow etc while hunting, the hinged floor plate works best of the two. When I get home is the only time I will remove a stock and only if I don't think it is really warranted. Mind you most of my rifles are Ceracoated and synthetic stocked. Those that are not ceracoted I rub Gilly Stephenson's Gun wax/polish into the timber and all metal parts. Yes, I am becoming lazy in my old age.

I was sold a replacement and supposedly better hinged floor plate for my Rem 700 in 35Whelen. Like you said, it undid on the first shot. Threw that away and put back the bog standard Rem floor plate, no further issues.




........or where I have been scrub bashing and have brought back half a mountainside of leaves and twigs in the rifle.........................





hahaha. I know that condition only too well.


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Rell
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rule303]
      #297265 - 18/03/17 07:16 AM

Thank you all for the feedback. The blind magazine is to reduce weight primarily and also it helps keep the rifle balanced with a lighter contour barrel and 22inches.

I am just a little concerned that in the case of a real jam I have to completely remove the bolt and unload the rifle with the bolt in my hand to get back in the fight.

I think I will give it a go and keep the original bottom metal just in case ...

Best,


Rell

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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4seventyModerator
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: Rell]
      #297279 - 18/03/17 11:08 AM

Quote:


I am just a little concerned that in the case of a real jam I have to completely remove the bolt and unload the rifle with the bolt in my hand to get back in the fight.
Rell




That is something to think about for sure, especially if the rifle is meant for big game hunting.
I personally would never consider a hunting rifle which had a blind magazine.
Floorplates/bottom metal can be made pretty light if need be, for controlling weight and balance.
Some floorplates appear to be made way too solid (and heavy) in my opinion.


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VonGruff
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: 4seventy]
      #297292 - 18/03/17 03:28 PM

Another thing is that for a blind mag it often means one less cartridge is in reserve and that could make a difference in some situations.
I not long finished a blind mag stock for my hill rifle (6.5x57) but dont forsee an immenent charge by an enraged goat so that aspect of the discussion is not relevant for me but faultless feeding is as we have often encountered sitautions where a mob of animals are able to be/need to be attended to and a feed issue is unwanted in those situations. I remember one time, a few years back, when I was hunting with another rifle and after shooting a number of animals my mag was empty but with still more on offer I reloaded a single round but made the mistake of droping it into the chamber instead of into the magazine and so the rifle was out of action till I could get a rod to remove the round from the chamber so in that case a misfeed was unrelated to the magazine bottom configuration. I dont remember any occasion over the last 50 years where a mauser was incapacitated through anything other than a round hanging up under the feed rails and the bolt starting to ride over the top, that could not be rectified by drawing the bolt to the rear and giving the top round a slight push down to reposition it in the mag and everything was back to feeding as it should. Bottom metal or blind mag would not have made any difference in those circumstances.
I do like the feel of the rifle with the blind mag in hand

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: gryphon]
      #297326 - 19/03/17 05:39 AM

Quote:



I believe some say that the blind mag version offers a stiffer (more accurate?) use.






I'm having a 6mm Musgrave built with a blind magazine as a light rifle, and this is something that my gunsmith said. Not sure how accurate this thinking is, but then, I am definitely not an expert.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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ducmarc
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #297874 - 27/03/17 03:01 AM

I'm working on a prototype printer program for a triggerguard floorplate for my ultralight 91 mauser and am trying to decide the same thing

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Tarzan know where Tarzan go


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Rell
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Re: Blind magazine for DG rifle? [Re: ducmarc]
      #297911 - 27/03/17 11:39 AM

I decided to go blind magazine. The GMA comes with bottom metal and I'll keep it in case I want to convert later.

Thanks all for the input.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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