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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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mehulkamdar
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New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68
      #296552 - 08/03/17 03:55 PM

Video courtesy Pan Leszek Kaminski.

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The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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gryphon
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #296559 - 08/03/17 04:45 PM

More detail here,sounds perfect.

the performance range lies between a .30-06 and a .416 Rem. In this way, the 10.3 x 68 Mag. covers a unique spectrum and is suited to hunting anything from the groundhog to the African buffalo. Benefits at a glance of RWS 10.3 x 68 Mag.:



https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-hunting-a...829fd8ce5f6bf0a

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: gryphon]
      #296568 - 08/03/17 06:33 PM

10.3mm works out as .406 so this could be another of those dreaded "un-necessary" new .400's/.411's.

I assume it is based on the 8x68S case?

Bullets seem light for calibre at 13.5 gms / 205 grs and 18.5 gms / 287 grs. No mention of ballistics yet. Pretty poor they don't mention the velocity, even the usual exagerated Euro velocities they usually quote.

Or what existing rifles are chambered for it?


Now has Daryl in the past made one of these rifles and reloaded for it?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Edited by NitroX (08/03/17 07:08 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296569 - 08/03/17 07:06 PM

Aim mentioned on the video to have up to a 28 gm bullet or 435 grs. That sounds more like it. So from 13 gms /200 grs to 28 gms /435 grs.

A common feature of these European "new" cartridges is the attempt to have a wide range of bullet weights and uses. Probably partly due the number of guns Euro hunters are often limited too by law. The 8.5x63mm (.338) is another example where bullets weight from 160 grs to 250 grs (?).

I do wonder with these wide ranges how the rifles cope and what rifling twist copes with such a range as well.

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John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296571 - 08/03/17 07:40 PM

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...vm=bv.148747831,d.dGc

Search Results
[PDF]SmartMagnumTM - RWS
https://rws-munition.de/.../rws/.../FREIGABE_english_0395_RWS_10-3x68_Mag_Fl...

A reduced case length of 68
mm serves as the basis for a balanced, very
well-mannered cartridge that offers a unique
palette of bullet weights between 11 and
26 grams (169 – 401 grains). Performance
levels vary between the .30-06 and the .416
Rem. Mag. with correspondingly comfortable
shooting qualities.

The Blaser R8 and the
Sauer 404 are now available as two reliable
solutions for maximum hunting success with
the 10.3x68 Mag.

BALLISTIC DATA

10,3x68 Mag. - SPEED TIP PRO 18,5 g / 285 gr

Barrel length 650 mm
0 50 100 150 200 250 300
Velocity (m/s) 810 771 734 698 662 628 593
Energy (J) 6069 5499 4983 4507 4054 3648 3253
100 m (cm) -0,4 -4,1 -13,3 -28,1 -49,0
RZR* 167 m (cm) 1,6 4,0 1,9 -5,3 -18,1 -37,0
*RZR = Recommended Zero Range Ballistic coefficient : 0,379



10,3x68 Mag. - EVO GREEN 13,5 g / 208 gr

Barrel length 650 mm
Distance (m) 0 50 100 150 200 250 300
Vvelocity (m/s) 920 861 805 753 702 652 604
Energy (J) 5713 5004 4374 3827 3326 2869 2463
100 m (cm) -0,8 -2,9 -10,2 -22,5 -40,6
RZR* 184 m (cm) 1,2 4,0 3,1 -2,2 -12,4 -28,5
*RZR = Recommended Zero Range Ballistic coefficient : 0,271




Ah BELTED, ....... why bother .....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (08/03/17 07:56 PM)

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296576 - 08/03/17 08:21 PM

Below is a link to a PDF which does give velocities.

According to "Cartridges of the World" the bullet diameter is 0.415" for the old 10.3x60 Swiss which is supposed to be the basis for this new round, which means that the 10.3 in this case relates to bore size rather than groove size. RWS may even be using 0.416" bullet size, hence the reference to a 400 grain bullet (416 Rigby). Interestingly they have included a belt (The gun writers will be having a heart attack), presumably for the same reasons that H&H did it with their early cartridges, namely the small shoulder giving headspace problems. I have no problem with the belt and if the head size is 0.532" then it would be a good all round cartridge which will fit in a standard length action but also be legal for Africa, as well as being good on our Sambar deer.


https://rws-munition.de/fileadmin/rws/bi...A5_12seiten.pdf


Waidmannsheil.

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Well_Well_Well
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296577 - 08/03/17 08:26 PM

A lost opportunity, they'd have been better off using a 400H&H case and putting more loads into it.

Edited by ExcessExpress (08/03/17 08:27 PM)

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296578 - 08/03/17 08:26 PM

Quote:



A common feature of these European "new" cartridges is the attempt to have a wide range of bullet weights and uses. Probably partly due the number of guns Euro hunters are often limited too by law. The 8.5x63mm (.338) is another example where bullets weight from 160 grs to 250 grs (?).






It is not just the Europeans that have a wide range of bullets, the Americans do the same with many of their cartridges, the 338 Win Mag for instance has an even bigger range than 8.5x63. For this reason many rifles are now available with a choice of twist rates.

Waidmannsheil.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #296579 - 08/03/17 08:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:



A common feature of these European "new" cartridges is the attempt to have a wide range of bullet weights and uses. Probably partly due the number of guns Euro hunters are often limited too by law. The 8.5x63mm (.338) is another example where bullets weight from 160 grs to 250 grs (?).






It is not just the Europeans that have a wide range of bullets, the Americans do the same with many of their cartridges, the 338 Win Mag for instance has an even bigger range than 8.5x63. For this reason many rifles are now available with a choice of twist rates.

Waidmannsheil.



Which is my point. The touts push the wide range of bullets in these various cartridges. How can one twist rate deal such a high range as 160 grs to 300 grs? ie .338/8.5 mm

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296582 - 08/03/17 08:42 PM

I guess the idea is that you first decide on the intended purpose of the rifle followed by the average bullet weight that you intend to use, then you choose a twist rate that best suits that bullet weight.

Waidmannsheil.

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Wayne59
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #296586 - 08/03/17 10:27 PM

Marketing magic. Pure bullshit.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #296587 - 08/03/17 10:40 PM

Quote:

I guess the idea is that you first decide on the intended purpose of the rifle followed by the average bullet weight that you intend to use, then you choose a twist rate that best suits that bullet weight.

Waidmannsheil.



Then why not just pick a calibre best suited to the weight range in the first place?

eg .338 - 160 to 200 gr range, choose a .30 calibre

eg .338 - 220 to 250 gr range, natural range of a .338.

Unless of course a compromise rifling twist range is possible.

I wonder. If a lighter bullet was longer than normal would the slower twist rate stabilise it?

eg .375 - normal range is 236 gr to 300 gr (or 350 gr).

If one wanted to say shoot a 180 gr projectile in the .375, if it was say made to a greater length, ie say longer than a normal 235 or 250 gr projectile, would it still stabilise?

Just out of theoretical interest.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Igorrock
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296616 - 09/03/17 05:55 AM

Seems that this new ammo has belted case so itīs parent case isnīt 8x68. IMO this kind of ammo is good thing because itīs dimensioned so that it will fit quite easy to standad m98 Mauser action.

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Huvius
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Igorrock]
      #296633 - 09/03/17 09:24 AM

Why, oh why, couldn't they just base it on the 10.75x68 case??
Or, better yet, relaunch the 10.75x68 with these fancy bullets as THE do all cartridge.

One interesting note is the question of twist rates.
Mauser used exactly the same twist for the 10.75 and the 404 Jeffery even with a wide gap in bullet weights. Not as wide a variety as this 10.3 has, but I think there is a sweet spot in twist which will work for a wide variety of bullet weights.

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DarylS
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Huvius]
      #296637 - 09/03/17 10:42 AM

Yes - that long 180gr. (or a short one for that matter) will shoot just fine in a .375's standard twist.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: DarylS]
      #296647 - 09/03/17 01:20 PM

Quote:

Why, oh why, couldn't they just base it on the 10.75x68 case??
Or, better yet, relaunch the 10.75x68 with these fancy bullets as THE do all cartridge.


I think the main reason is the obsolent diameter of 10,75 case bottom which means they would have to make totally own cases for it. That is quite costly. Probably this new caliber have some very common parent case and the sortiment of suitable bullet weight is quite great. Lighter bullets would be more popular for hunting in Europe.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Igorrock]
      #296653 - 09/03/17 04:22 PM

The claim is 10.3 mm is the minimum for that Swiss province. No doubt hunters there will be happy.

I think it may also have to do with creating a NAME cartridge. If it is sucessful RWS will be known for it.

Doubt that wull happen. The cartridge is blagged endlessly on the Wild und Hund forum by German hunters.

A lot of hype going into this release. The cartridge has some merit though.

Personally for an all round cartridge I would stick with the .375.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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dotchicco
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296673 - 09/03/17 10:28 PM

Well,
probably someone of you knows that in most part of Switzerland the minumim caliber allowed for hunting is 10,3x65R. You can hunt with larger caliber but not with smaller. Probably this the reason why RWS from several years is studing a new cartridge based on this caliber. The case is a belted one, so this mammo doesn't came from the 8x68S since the old 8 is not belted. The range of bullet is wide, probably because they are interested both in swiss market (for alpine gams hunting the 200 grains bullet is perfect although i hate Evo green bullet) and in safari merket. A lot of german and european hunter hunt in Africa every year. The venerable 9,3x64 is unfortunately waning, and RWS doesn't have any proprietary caliber for Africa. Right now blaser is the only producing barrels in this caliber, but soon i bet Mauser and Sauer wil do. Work in progress.
Doc

Edited by dotchicco (09/03/17 10:31 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: dotchicco]
      #296726 - 10/03/17 07:01 PM

maybe the brass can be used to form 10,75x68 with a lot of work

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dotchicco
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: lancaster]
      #296741 - 11/03/17 12:48 AM

No... Theese are belted..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: dotchicco]
      #296742 - 11/03/17 12:58 AM

Yes I worked that out myself, a long time ago and commented in the fifth post of the thread ....

Quote:

Ah BELTED, ....... why bother .....



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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296763 - 11/03/17 05:35 AM

Much depends on the diameter of the base of the case- for making 8x68's or 9.5x68's, that is.

I made 9.5x68's using .375 H&H brass. Trim to length, turn the belt to .522", re-set the shoulder for a crush fit and fireform.

Worked perfectly as the headspace was zero - as I set it by placing the shoulder for a crush fit. The cases swelled out perfectly ahead of the turned belt to fit the chamber and they also had 3gr. greater capacity than the parent 8x68 RWS case necked up and fireformed.

What is the belt & base diameter of this new round. It is standard .532" and .513"?

I couldn't tell perfectly by the pictures, but appears to be a standard magnum case, with sloping case sides and very small shoulder. They appear they will be easily made form H&H brass.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: DarylS]
      #296790 - 11/03/17 11:19 AM

As I said previously, the belt will be there due to the very small shoulder, head spacing will be difficult otherwise. I don't know why people make such a big fuss about the belt, from a reliability and feeding point of view it doesn't matter a shit if it there or not so long as the rifle is set up properly.

Waidmannsheil.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #296821 - 11/03/17 06:25 PM

Quote:

As I said previously, the belt will be there due to the very small shoulder, head spacing will be difficult otherwise. I don't know why people make such a big fuss about the belt, from a reliability and feeding point of view it doesn't matter a shit if it there or not so long as the rifle is set up properly.

Waidmannsheil.



Yeah probably true.

Be interesting to see how well this cartridge works with the light AND heavy bullet options in the future.

I don't think it ever will be a huge success. And may fade quickly into obscurity.

But I do like the concept of the one gun rifle hunter.

And for the Swiss hunter limited by ridiculous laws, possibly a real winner. Maybe there are enough hunters n Switzerland that the niche market is great enough to justify this new cartridge and barrels in the Blaser and Sauer line up.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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gryphon
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Re: New RWS Big Bore Caliber: 10.3x68 [Re: NitroX]
      #296830 - 11/03/17 08:00 PM

whats with the belt fuss,I load my crackers into the magazine and kill things with it and that`s without dwelling on any belt bs...there`s never been a fuss on this side of the fence.
I really think that we can get too technical instead of looking at the fresh tracks in front of us.

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