Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: another M 88 sporter for the archive

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | >> (show all)
Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #263372 - 10/04/15 12:19 PM

Borrowed from another forum.

"Here is a rifle marked Nowatny of Prague. I believe it was manufactured by Haenel and sold to Nowatny, a retailer, though there are no Haenel markings on it, even under the woodline.

Markings indicate that it was originaly in 8MM. It is now in .35 Whelen but the groove diameter is .354" which make me think that the bore was worn out and then rebored in Germany or Austria to 9x57, brought to the US where 9x57 ammo would have been difficult to obtain so rechambered to .35 Whelen.

The peep sight is not meant to be a peep sight as we are accustomed to them but is used in conjunction with the express sight and front sight to sharpen the focus of the iron sights as we today use the little diopters that stick on our glasses in competition shooting. I wonder if the Lyman sights mounted on These Haenels that have iron sights as well are for the same reason.

The stock has been refinished several times and the sling mounts have been located in two other places on the stock previously.
Vlad"


















--------------------
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: Ash]
      #263379 - 10/04/15 01:36 PM

Drool.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: tinker]
      #268255 - 20/07/15 03:54 PM

Suhl made 8x57I , sold by Gebrüder Kellner /Wien
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&category=&product=al2112













8x57I , on top of rib marked "L. Bavell, Regensburg"
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&page=4&category=&product=al2746




















"German Sporting 10.8 x 49 caliber rifle manufactured by Haenel in Suhl. Made on a model ‘88 commission rifle action. Beautiful engraving and set triggers. Excellent condition."
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&page=4&category=&product=al2119

have no idea about the 10,8x49




















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (20/07/15 04:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: Ash]
      #269088 - 09/08/15 02:47 PM

M 88 in 8x57I with "FR. DOLSCHEK, LEOBEN' - on the barrel, Fr. Dolschek is know between 1900 and 1920 in Leoben /Austria, German and austrian proof(Ferlach)





the action with Edelweiss engravings, very unique on a M 88



the Edelweiss is the symbol of the mountain hunter





http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...ller.html?img=2

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #272494 - 01/11/15 03:16 PM

Paul Mossiers /Breslau 8x57 with S bore .323

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100296653









this plain 8mm had probably a new made stock
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100525686





















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (01/11/15 03:23 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39061
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #272495 - 01/11/15 03:36 PM

Quote:

the Edelweiss is the symbol of the mountain hunter





http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...ller.html?img=2




And it grows in some steep 'meadows' from the photo.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: NitroX]
      #276040 - 04/01/16 03:41 AM

8x57I http://stiegele.weebly.com/offers.html









--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1340
Loc: Alaska
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #276046 - 04/01/16 04:49 AM

I don't think straight up and down qualifies as a medow. lol

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: casper50]
      #279556 - 19/03/16 03:45 PM

in the next hermann historica auction
8x57I SN 20570



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #284932 - 07/07/16 04:37 PM

again an unmarked 8x57I made by Schilling or Haenel
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?535305-M88-Commission-Sporter&p=4793705#post4793705






















I hope one day I will find the time to sort the Schiling and Haenel out by the SN


if you compare this classic stock design with another new stocked 8x57I SN 23102 https://auctionet.com/sv/278509-kulgevar.../images#image_1 you wonder how deep the stockmaker are sunk in the decades between


a 8x57I C.G. Haenel Suhl Germany made for export into the united states
SN looks like 6124

https://www.gunsamerica.com/918708304/Ma...uhl-Germany.htm



























8x57I C.G. Haenel http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569285369
































C.G.Haenel , caliber is given as 8x57IR what would be a real surprise for me, must be wrong!
SN looks like 12296
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100693107



























carbine sporter in 8x57I http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100651485
























Edited by lancaster (08/07/16 04:54 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #288594 - 02/10/16 06:37 AM

again a nameless 8x57I SN 20570
http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion-2.html



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 118
Loc: USA
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #288604 - 02/10/16 12:53 PM

I have to drag my two 88 sporters out. I don't think they've seen the light of day in 15 yrs.

I have two of the Haenel 'New Model' Mannlichers also. Kind of a mix of 88 and 98 features but I do like them, One in 9x57 isn't all that bad except for the coin inletted into the cheek piece!
The other,,the poor gal I think was originally 9.3x57 (bore is .366). Someone had it rechambered to 35 Whehen (!) in an attempt I'm guessing to get more power north of the US/Canada border where rifle originally came from (Moose country).
I tried a few of my 35W rounds through the so-so .366 bore and the results are what I expected.
I'm thinking of rechambering the 35Whelen to 9.3x62 Mauser (should clean up the 35Whelen chamber) to try and save it even with the bore the way it is. It'd be a brute to shoot and the magazine may only take the lighter bullets,,but at least the rifle would be back to a metric.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: 2152hq]
      #288649 - 03/10/16 10:32 PM

2152 hq

you see this is a archive thread, imho the very first tinme someone collect them to get an overview what was made and who was made it. would be nice if you post pics of your Haenel rifles, the M 88 and also the M 1900 and M 1909 you have. the main producers of M 88 sporters were Haenel and Schilling in Suhl, both make military carbines up to 1898 when the M 98 came so had the machinery to make new carbine actions. unfortunately many of this rifles have no name because made for the gun trade to get the name of the gunmaker who will sell it in the end.
the only chance is maybe to find some features only one maker had or get an overview about the serial numbers to sort it out if there is a Haenel or a Schilling made rifle.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1091
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #288684 - 04/10/16 05:19 PM

Hello All,

I'm a little late finding these references, but perhaps someone can answer my questions.

I just acquired an 88 Sporter (?) Variation w/ a rare scope mounting. The scope pivots to the side, and the whole assembly is also claw-mounted. Pushing the button "up" on the left rear of the mount, removes the scope.

The scope itself is held in a "clam-shell" arrangement with a thumb screw. There is a "V" notch in the mount that aligns the scope into a similar "V" on the rear scope ring, so that it always returns to the same "rotation" if removed. The retical is a strange crosshair-post configuration with a small "loop" at the top of the post.

I could use some help to determine what exactly I have. There are lots of markings on the barrel and action. Does anyone out there know what all the different markings mean? Any idea what year my rifle was made?

No caliber marking but chamber cast shows 8x57 with a .319 bore.

Here are a lot of pictures:
















--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: buckstix]
      #288701 - 05/10/16 12:36 AM

First to the markings: The circled "little rooster" (="Haehnel" in German dialect), surrounded by CGH, was the trademark of the C.G.Haenel company, Bahnhofstr. 16, Suhl. Haenel made many M88 military carbines and rifles , not only for the German army, but for export also. They used their actions to build most of the M88 sporters too. So these Haenel sporters are not converted surplus military rifles, just as the Remington 30 rifles are not ex-military P14 or M17 Enfields.
156.14 (.,/ interchangeable) is a gauge number like we still use on shotguns, lead balls to a British pound. As these numbers were taken over from Britain, 156.14 stands for a bore/land (not groove /bullet!) diameter between .310" and .320" (141.95).My own Haenel M1900 in 8x57I is marked 118.35 = .300" - .310". These gauge numbers were used by the Suhl proofhouse from 1893 to 1912, replaced by mm figures in increments of .1 mm.
The CROWN + crown/N proofmarks stand for Nitro proof using the special "4000 atm proof powder". This proof was used from 1894 to about 1923.
The rifle was proofed for the M88 8x57I sevice load of 2.75 g = 42.4gr GewehrBlaettchenpulver = (military-)rifle flake powder behind the 227 gr Stahlmantelgeschoss = steel jacket bullet.
"Star" was a high quality barrel steel by the Boehler steel works, Austria.
The other small letters are worker's stamps, factory internal quality control marks, unidentifyable today.
The scope is a very early Voigtlaender, Brunswick, "Skopar", one of the very first rifle scopes, offered from 1895 to aout 1905.
These early sing mounts were overly complicated and not recoil and wear resistant. By 1910 they had disappeared from the market again.
The rifle was retailed by Jacob Sackreuter, Friedenstr.3, Frankfurt on Main, founded 1830, last mentioned at the time of WW1. My own 8x57I Haenel M1900 was retailed by Sackreuter also. It is mounted with a Voigtlaender "Skopar D", a long eye relief version.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1091
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: kuduae]
      #288729 - 05/10/16 01:25 PM

Hello Kuduae,

Thanks for the reply.

Based on what you have said, would 1905 - 1910 be the approx date of manufacture for my rifle?

As I have now had more time to examine the scope mounting, I find that the complete scope mounting apparatus is claw mounted on the left side, with a single "hook claw" at the front, and a single "notched claw" at the rear. The pictures I have shown illustrate its removal by pushing "up" on the spring loaded button at the rear.




In addition, the scope is clamped in place with a clam-shell arrangement that is held closed with a thumb screw.

Loosening the thumb screw, and swinging it to the side, allows the top of the clamp to pivot open, releasing the scope.





When the scope is replaced and the clam shell pivoted closed, there is a small "V-notch" in the top clamp, that aligns with a "point" on the scope ring. This assures that the scope is oriented properly with the cross-hairs in the correct position.




This arrangement works very well. And although there is some "wiggle" in the mounting, I was able to remove and replace the scope several time while shooting, and it always returned to a reasonable 100 yard zero.

I have also determined that the "swing-to-the-side" feature of the scope mount is only for loading the rifle with the 5-round clip, not for aiming and shooting with the iron sights. There is a "tunnel" beneath the mount that allows the iron sights to be used with the scope in place.

The scope is only 2x power and I'm not sure how to use the cross-hairs. The little circle is about 6 minute of angle, covering a 6" circle at 100 yards, and is positioned about 6" above the center of the cross-hairs. Perhaps you aim with the small circle at 100 yards (100 meters) and aim with the cross-hairs at 200 yards. (200 meters) Using my balliostic calculator, it shows a 220 g bullet at 1900fps would strike 5.9" high at 100 meters, and be dead on at 200 meters.



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1756
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: buckstix]
      #288735 - 05/10/16 08:21 PM

Quote:

Based on what you have said, would 1905 - 1910 be the approx date of manufacture for my rifle?



Rather 1895 - 1905. At least, the Voigtlaender "Skopar" scope as mounted on your rifle was not listed anymore in an 1908 catalog, replaced by the more stramlined "Skopar B", while the long eye relief "Skopar D" was still available.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1091
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: kuduae]
      #288739 - 05/10/16 11:21 PM

Hello Kuduae,

Thank you for your reply.

And thank you once again for your expertise in providing details about my rifle.

Only today did I discover that both the scope, and the scope mount, have serial numbers matching the rifle.





--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: buckstix]
      #288767 - 06/10/16 02:49 PM

seems they were order and sale together

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1091
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #288815 - 07/10/16 10:24 PM

Hello lancaster,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I believe it so.

Thank you for starting a most interesting discussion.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: Ash]
      #290843 - 26/11/16 04:04 AM

7x57, maybe post war made sporter, german proof in Ulm 7/1956
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6198539#img













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #294913 - 08/02/17 06:56 AM

this was a real "sporter" made from a Gewehr 88 http://www.lauritz.com/sv/auktion/tysk-gevaer-model-1888-kaliber-8-x-57/i3764198/#

65 cm long barrel in 8x57













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8664
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #296416 - 07/03/17 06:45 AM

C.G.Haenel 8x57I http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100814190







































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: lancaster]
      #296425 - 07/03/17 09:13 AM

Love those see-saw front sights.

--------------------
.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 227
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive [Re: Ash]
      #301183 - 02/06/17 11:13 PM

Schilling Suhl sporter, 9x57 , suhl and english proof marks, Lyon&Lyon Calcutta adress.......















--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 20 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 153484

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved