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Ripp
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Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal
      #295664 - 22/02/17 03:00 PM

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/the-gun-nuts/dangerous-game-rifles-the-roaring-forties
by David Petzal..
Petzal is the Rifles editor for Field & Stream. His writing ability and knowledge of firearms are often referred to as "godlike."


The question of the .40-calibers came up, and I feel compelled to put in my oar, as the British say. I’m all for them. What follows is a short summary of some the high points of the .40s.

When I began hunting Africa in the 1970s, if you talked to any of the old-time PHs about the best dangerous-game cartridges around, there were two that would almost certainly be on the list. One was the .470 Nitro Express, and the other was the .416 Rigby. The former was strictly a double-rifle proposition, but the .416 was for bolt-actions. Brought out by John Rigby in 1911, it is a startlingly modern case (albeit a very big one) with very little body taper and a sharp shoulder. It fires a 400-grain bullet at 2,400 fps, which gives it considerably more authority than the .375 H&H, and a lot less recoil than the .45-and-bigger rounds. Indeed, this is the great strength of all the .40s.

What Rigby also managed to do was get Kynoch, who made a great many lousy bullets at the time, to make a solid and a soft point that were very good, particularly the solid. Here at last was a dangerous-game slug that would not break up on impact.

But Rigby bolt-actions were still expensive, and required an extra-large action. For a long time if you wanted a .416 Rigby built, you had to get a P17 Enfield and open it up, or pay a small fortune for a Brevex bolt-action.

The .404 Jeffrey (it takes .423 bullets) appeared two years before the Rigby, and is sort of the workingman’s .40. I mention it here because it was at one time hugely popular, nearly died for no good reason, and is now enjoying something of a renaissance. (I think the reason the .404 went into decline was lack of glamor. It was issued to game departments, and Harry Selby [on whom Peter Mackenzie of Something of Value was modeled] used a Rigby, so the unfortunate Jeffrey round had no cachet at all.)

The original loading was 400 grains at 2,100 fps, but now the numbers are 400 at 2,300. It packs just a bit less punch than the .416, but is small enough to work through a standard bolt action, and kicks noticeably less. If you’re looking to go one step above the .375 H&H in power, this is a very good place to go.

The .416 Remington was part of the Great .40-Caliber Rebirth of the late 1980s, and is my favorite of the lot. It’s the 8mm Remington Magnum necked up to .41, and fires 400-grain bullets at 2,400 fps. It fits through a standard-length action, and is, for all intents and purposes, a more practical version of the .416 Rigby.

I’ve heard complaints about high pressures in the .416 Remington, but have shot it far more than was good for me, with both handloads and and factory, and never had the slightest problem. And I can tell you that it absolutely pounds stuff.

Last on the list is the .416 Weatherby, class of 1989. I have no experience with it, but Layne Simpson, a gun writer of the highest moral and literary worth, has. Layne says that if you want to see something large and tough knocked absolutely flat, there’s nothing like a .416 Weatherby. It fires 400-grain bullets at 2,600 fps, courtesy of a fearful powder charge. Layne reports that you can’t shoot the rifle without the factory-issue muzzle brake, and if you do use the brake, you also have to use headphones. All that power does not come without a price.

The .375 H&H is more versatile than the .40s, but lacks power for the really big stuff. The .45-plus cartridges hit harder, but they also kick a lot more. In the view of this grizzled, embittered old observer, the .40s are the way to go for a dangerous-game cartridge.
D

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Ripp]
      #295672 - 22/02/17 05:33 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Great read Ripp, thank you for posting.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Ripp]
      #295677 - 22/02/17 06:44 PM

A top read, thanks for posting Ripp.

I find myself agreeing with him.


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DarylS
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Rule303]
      #295700 - 23/02/17 05:06 AM

When younger, I was quite enamored with the .404 Jeffery. I got over it after finding my little .458's were too much & the .375's were about all I could comfortably handle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Marrakai
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: DarylS]
      #295727 - 23/02/17 04:37 PM

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

The "god-like" comment is a self-promotion by Petzal?

My one "heathen" comment however: "...fits through a standard length action" is a bit of a stretch for the .416 Rem and the .404 Jeffery (pun intended!).
It takes some serious gunsmithing to open up the Mauser 98 size actions to accommodate those two cartridges.
These days, manufacturers make a standard 'magnum length' action for those chamberings.

The .416 Taylor, on the other hand, is a standard length 'forty'.....
...but nary a mention!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Marrakai]
      #295737 - 24/02/17 01:20 AM

Quote:


The "god-like" comment is a ####.





Good pick up. What a wanker.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Rule303]
      #295741 - 24/02/17 03:47 AM

Quote:

A top read, thanks for posting Ripp.

I find myself agreeing with him.




I as well agree with what he said...I had the opportunity of shooting a western cape buffalo while in Cameroon a couple weeks back..this is the first one I ever shot with a .375H&H...while I know you cant judge accurately by one occurrence..from what I saw versus the other 3 I have shot with my .416 Remington, the difference on the initial hit was very noticeable.. my experience has been when you hit them with the .416 the hit stuns them--its very noticeable ..didn't see that on the initial shot with the .375..it was like I just shot an elk with a .270 vs a 338...the stun effect was not there...

Dead is dead, and we found him about 300 yards away dead..BUT, 300 yards is a long ways to travel after a good solid hit ..I was using 300 gr Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claws..I have the recovered bullet..retained 92% of its weight..perfect mushroom...

My thoughts were, as we were tacking him through about 8-10 ft high grass is that a buffalo that is able to travel 300 yards after a hit, should he decide to, could really ruin your day given the chance..

I really liked using the .375H&H for the bigger plains game..eland, roan, hartebeest, etc...worked excellent and not much recoil in the Sako Model 75, in fact was really surprised of the "lack" of recoil from that rife....BUT, if I were to just hunt buffalo, I would reach for one of my .416's...no comparison..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (24/02/17 07:46 AM)


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coll416
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Marrakai]
      #295759 - 24/02/17 11:00 AM

I totally agree regarding the extra oomph of a 40 calibre. I have used the .416 Taylor on scrub bulls it seems to hit bulls with an immobilising blow inside 50m, those shot with .375 H&H & 9.3x62 in similar circumstances run off...still dead but less emphatically!

I am with you Marrakai! The .416 Taylor is easily handloaded to .416 Rigby & .416 Remington factory specs. The Taylor's advantage of being easily fitted in standard length actions also contributes to its performance due to having extra space that can be used up with freebore. My Taylor was built for me 1992, it is 8.5 pounds without scope & achieves 2400fps with 410gn Woodleighs without any difficulty!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: coll416]
      #295767 - 24/02/17 01:18 PM

The article is listed as 2014, but reads like it was written in the early 1980's. Is it re-print from 30 years before?

Though I agree with all the mentioned cartridge choices, same as I would choose, plus the .416 Chatfield-Taylor and the .450/400's. Add the 10.75x68 and the .425 Westley-Richards.

I definitely wouldn't include the .416 Weatheyby Magnum though as never hear of anyone shooting it. Guess Weatheryby needs to sell some rifles too ...



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Vladymere
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: NitroX]
      #295770 - 24/02/17 01:34 PM

If he was "god like" he would know that there is no such rifle as a P17. There is a P14 and a US Model of 1917, both sharing the same action, but no P17.

The use of the term P17 always irks me.

Vlad


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Rule303
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Vladymere]
      #295773 - 24/02/17 02:11 PM

Quote:

If he was "god like" he would know that there is no such rifle as a P17. There is a P14 and a US Model of 1917, both sharing the same action, but no P17.

The use of the term P17 always irks me.

Vlad




Quite correct. I refer to them as the P14/M17. Still an abbreviation for the US Model of 1917 but being an Aussie, it's in our character to abbreviate things.


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Ripp
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Rule303]
      #295776 - 24/02/17 03:26 PM

Bit more info on another--the .416 HOffman..

I did not know you can shoot a 416 Remington in a 416 Hoffman but not vice-versa..

Ripp'

.416 Hoffman
When supplies of .416 Rigby ammo were drying up, due to the demise of Kynoch, many hunters still wanted to use the fantastic .416” bullets, and there were several innovative wildcat designs that kept the bore diameter alive. Many people know about the .416 Remington, which came out in 1988, and has been accepted as a solid performer in the game fields, but the Remington design wasn’t the first. It was an American Professional Hunter in Africa, named George Hoffman, who mated the .375 H&H case with .416” diameter bullets to create the .416 Hoffman. It would produce the same ballistics as the .416 Rigby – a 400-grain bullet at 2,400 fps at the muzzle – but with much less powder, a shorter action and readily available component brass from the .375 H&H. The tradeoff was that it ran at a higher pressure than the huge-cased .416 Rigby, but it still worked very well. Although Remington states that their design is based on the 8mm Remington Magnum case, the designs are so similar that the Hoffman chamber can use .416 Remington ammunition, but not vice versa. Being a huge fan of the .416 Rem. Mag., I’m grateful to Mr. Hoffman for his wildcat, and if you’re looking for something a bit different, talk to your gunsmith about the Hoffman case.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rell
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Ripp]
      #295795 - 24/02/17 11:36 PM

Interesting conversation.

Ii went through my notes from 1994 when I lived in West Africa and combined them with the more recent buffalllo.

-8 Savanah buff with 303 British with military solids ( 4 one shot kills the rest 2 to 3 rounds)
-3 Savanah buff 375 H&H, no idea what the ammo was, mixed for sure (no drop to the shot kills, fired one shot)
-4 Savanah Buffalo with the 458 Win mag using Winchester ammo, mixed loads (2 drop to the shot kills, one found 50 yards away and the other a rodeo of bad shooting 6 shots)
-2 Cape buffalo with the 450-400 3 and Woodliegh 400gr soft and solids ( on drop to the shot, the other found 30 yards away after a soft on the shoulder and a solid in the butt)
-1 Cape buffalo with 375 H&H, 300gr Barnes X and Nosler solids( shot this one 11 times)
-1 Savanah Buffalo (4 shots trophy bonded and trophy solids, went 30 yards)

Most of the Buffalo from 1994 where smaller bulls and cows but the 303 British was quite effective. My theory is shot placement is everything. I intend to do most of my hunting with the 450-400 from now on but I think that's mostly because I like the double. I hated the 458 Win but in fairness the rifle was a R.E.M. 700 and was to light as well as having shitty sights.

I bet a bunch of the Aussi members have taken scrub bulls and such with the he 303, interested to hear how that has gone.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Ripp
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Rell]
      #295796 - 25/02/17 02:34 AM

Quote:

Interesting conversation.

Ii went through my notes from 1994 when I lived in West Africa and combined them with the more recent buffalllo.

-8 Savanah buff with 303 British with military solids ( 4 one shot kills the rest 2 to 3 rounds)
-3 Savanah buff 375 H&H, no idea what the ammo was, mixed for sure (no drop to the shot kills, fired one shot)
-4 Savanah Buffalo with the 458 Win mag using Winchester ammo, mixed loads (2 drop to the shot kills, one found 50 yards away and the other a rodeo of bad shooting 6 shots)
-2 Cape buffalo with the 450-400 3 and Woodliegh 400gr soft and solids ( on drop to the shot, the other found 30 yards away after a soft on the shoulder and a solid in the butt)
-1 Cape buffalo with 375 H&H, 300gr Barnes X and Nosler solids( shot this one 11 times)
-1 Savanah Buffalo (4 shots trophy bonded and trophy solids, went 30 yards)

Most of the Buffalo from 1994 where smaller bulls and cows but the 303 British was quite effective. My theory is shot placement is everything. I intend to do most of my hunting with the 450-400 from now on but I think that's mostly because I like the double. I hated the 458 Win but in fairness the rifle was a R.E.M. 700 and was to light as well as having shitty sights.

I bet a bunch of the Aussi members have taken scrub bulls and such with the he 303, interested to hear how that has gone.




WOW, that is an impressive resume'. Agree shot placement is everything which is what surprised me a bit as the one I shot with the 375H&H was dead center on his right shoulder taking out lungs..but still made it 300 yards plus before tipping over...impressive power by those buff..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: Dangerous-game-rifles-The-roaring-forties--by David E Petzal [Re: Rell]
      #295840 - 25/02/17 08:53 AM

Rell,

Though I like the Rem 700, the sights Rem put on them are some of the worst I have had the misfortune to use. They are an abomination and should never have seen the light of day.

Aussie Buff and the 303Brit. I have not taken scrub bull or water Buffalo, how ever many have. Try and get a copy of Tom Cole's "Hell, West and Crooked" He and other pro buff hunters used the 303 extensively and mainly FMJ. he would ride up close to them shoot them in the spin- normally at a gallop - then the ground crew would but a 3030 into the brain to finish them. Plenty of one shot kills when on foot.


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