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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291615 - 08/12/16 01:28 AM

Quote:

Failed...not meeting manufacturer's promises regarding bullet integrity or performance .....




That to me is the most correct definition. A bullet is designed with a particular performance criteria in mind. Did the bullet live up to its design criteria? Misapplication or misaligned expectations is a different discussion altogether. To be utterly clear, I do not know if one could or should shoot a pig in the forehead with a soft bullet. If yes, then bullet failure.

BTW: killing deer and elk with an automobile bumper is the most expensive bullet of all!!!!!!

Edited by Postman (08/12/16 01:50 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291620 - 08/12/16 02:07 AM

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.

--------------------
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...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failures [Re: NitroX]
      #291633 - 08/12/16 04:25 AM

That's good context which I'd not considered. We don't see much in the way of cull hunts locally here in Ontario. One gets 1 tag per big game animal type hunted per year here locally. So, 1 bear, 1 moose, 1 deer. Three bullets per year (ideally). More bullets for some. Still 3 animals. Party hunting means I may fill my buddies' tags if I get luckier than them which might increase my bullet expenditure. Missed shots also drive usage. Going to other jurisdictions means additional bag limits but the overall hunt costs go way up.

I could see use for a good cost effective cup and core with appropriate caliber and weight for cull hunts where hundreds of bullets might be unleashed.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failures [Re: Postman]
      #291643 - 08/12/16 06:49 AM

The only cull hunts we have here in BC - are gopher shoots.

20gr. Vmaxes from 3,900fps to 4,500fps depending on the launch platform are the norm for us. Bullet disintegration is the goal as well as producing lots of chunks flying about.

Not so with the bigger game.

Some guys make a huge go at coyote shooting and wolves through the winter & now with no bag limits.

Guys are starting to see wolves in the fields, mid day - meaning overpopulated by a good margin. I might have to load up some 55gr. Nosler Varmgedons for the .243 & see if I can plink a few. Got some 58gr. Vmaxes that also shoot. Stretched-string trajectories to 400yards is nice with speeds at 4,000fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: NitroX]
      #291644 - 08/12/16 08:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.




Is there a possibility to get in on one of those cull hunts and if so, what type of animals would the hunter be culling?? Do outfitters offer these??

I got in on a brief cull during my second trip to Africa...was in S Africa ..amazing time...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291670 - 08/12/16 08:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.




Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings. Soft bullets act like grenades on low resistance targets such as textbook broadside rib/lung shots. I would put forth the notion that soft bullets on pig skull shots exceeds the design parameter of the bullet as borne out by the above testimonial. Two solutions exist as I see it:

1. Wait for the textbook broadside shot or,
2. Use premium bullets where a much broader range of shots can be taken.

I've never shot a pig in the forehead and do not have first hand experience with their skull construction. I do however know that a black bear's skull is exceedingly hard and angled perfectly such that a lot of bullets will ricochet from a head on "between the eyes" shot leaving the bear with a nasty headache and an ugly disposition. On the pig, it sounds like a solidly constructed premium bullet is absolutely called for, but on a bear, the frontal shot between the eyes is just not a good idea with any bullet. Drop one's aim a little lower on the bear right on the snout, and the game changes again, yet I would still opt for the more stoutly constructed premium bullet to aid in deep penetration.

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Pigs skulls are not overly hard/thick and I would wager a Win Silvertip would of penetrated at least into the neck if not the middle somewhere, a Corelokt would of ended up further in. I have mangaed to track down one box of Rem 270, 140 grain Ultra CoreLokts. Will take some time before I get to test them but looking forward to it.


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291752 - 10/12/16 02:31 PM

I was finishing off other peoples animals they had hit with vehicles in the city where shooting was not a safe option and of course discretely so no public shock factor on the 6 o'clock news.Some in uniform ......some not.Harold

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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294474 - 30/01/17 10:17 AM

I received a reply from Hornady on the bullets in question I sent to their lab for testing.Quote.......We did shoot the bullets into wax blocks at 2320fps and had 226gr weight retention.Then we shot them at 2009fps [distance impact velocity calculation] with 233gr retention.Bullets mushroomed well at .760" and .565" The ring is positioned quite a bit rearward.It is set at .210" from the base of the bullet.This could be why the bullet peeled back so far for you and came apart. I sectioned the more recent Hornady 286gr bullet and found no sign of the ring anywhere? Thoughts.........Harold

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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294480 - 30/01/17 12:19 PM

So now we know that Hornady bullets are ok if you're a wax hunter.

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #294481 - 30/01/17 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.




I have not but have read several article written by those who have..I am a bit worried the are going to be on the soft side from what I read saying they retain 50-60%....was planning on trying them next season on pronghorn and mule deer with lower velocity calibers..3100fps or less..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/21/tested-hornady-eld-x-bullet/

Was another story I read in GUNS AND AMMO hunting in Texas for Aoudad similar performance..

Ripp




From the looks of those gelatin tests, I would NOT expect to shoot a moose or elk at 100yards in the ribs and expect anything but a splash wound with that bullet. They appear to me to be similar to the Berger hunting bullets - match bullets with a hunting moniker.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #294485 - 30/01/17 02:55 PM

Q: D "He's still got enough yellow plastic tipped 286gr. Normas for a couple years."

Just re read this thread and saw your line above D.

I used those yellow tips factory bullets in my original 308 Norma mag (180gr) and boy they put the big deer down too. I wish I could still buy them.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #294486 - 30/01/17 03:17 PM

IIRC- 9.3x57, Rod, used sided down 270gr. Hornady SP's on BIG wild cattle with perfect results.

He also found that sized down 235gr. Speer .375's also penetrated better from his 9.3 than when shot from a .375 AS .375 bullets.

Sized down 225gr. Spire Points (also worked well for Rod) are already loaded for testing in my bro's 9.3x57. They will be running 2,550fps. We want to test them on plates to 300 meters as they have a 200 meter zero right now.

These have a 1/16" thick jacket - that's .0625" thick and is the same thickness of jacket on the new 350gr. .458 bullet from Speer, the one that needs to be driven faster than 1,900fps to expand.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #294495 - 30/01/17 06:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.




Is there a possibility to get in on one of those cull hunts and if so, what type of animals would the hunter be culling?? Do outfitters offer these??

I got in on a brief cull during my second trip to Africa...was in S Africa ..amazing time...

Ripp




Didn't see this till now.

What sort of animals?

I used to shoot a lot of feral goats. They are worth money now, by rounding up, and selling. One can see big stock crates on semi-trailers, truck trailer plus two trailers full of stinkers on the Stuart Highway at Port Augusta. Big horned billies included in the crate. Bigger horns than I have ever shot.

Feral pigs. Yes. Don't seem as numerous in NSW and Qld due to past droughts. No doubt will breed up if they haven't already. We weren't shooting for numbers, didn't pursue the herds, but shot I think 32 boar on one trip, three days. We did bump into a two herds which combined together at maybe 300 pigs. Then cahsing them in the Jep to get into position to shoot, got stuck a hundred metres out into the wetland swamps. Spent the rest of the day getting out again ... One of our members goes to the Kymberleys and used to, and may still do so, shoots as a group up to and above 600 pigs in a cull.

Donkeys. Are another big cull beast. Sometimes hard to put down. NT and Northern WA/Kymberleys have hundreds of thousands of donkeys. Or used to.

Hunt Australia used to do Feral Cull hunts. Rifles recommended were the .308 and similar where lots of ammo was easy to get. Matt Graham has passed on, end of last year, so I am not sure what has happened with Hunt Australia and if anyone else is taking it over. I did hunt one of Hunt Australia's ex-cull properties. Still some donks, not many pigs, bit of a fizzer. Probably why MG had stopped taking cull shooters there, and gave the property away to an "online unting club". Posted a thread on that hunt in the NT here somewhere in the past.

Horses. Sometimes there can be horse culls. Only shot a couple myself. They drop very easily. Didn't take any photos. They are beautiful animals and some people get upset. Thousands of brumbies in the Aussie bush. Be VERY careful not to shoot stock horses.

Camels. A bit of an expedition is needed for camels into the desert. And don't expect big numbers. Hundreds of thousands of feral camels in Australia. For "roadside poachers" beware, they are sometimes stock animals.

Cattle. There are wild cattle too. Scrub bulls. Not usually a mass cull proposition.

On a feral shoot, however if there are a few species around, pigs, donkeys, scrub bulls, maybe even some camels and horses, it adds to the variety. I find the big numbers culling gets boring and excessive very fast. Repetitive, but does add to one's shooting skills. I culled buffalo for two days. Shot ten the first day. Then decided to stop on buffalo that day. Shot six the next day. Was paying for each. Good practice though. Shot some pigs, they were not numerous, a scrub bull, and a couple horses.

If you can get onto kangaroo shoot culls, these are good practice. Landowners have tags or permits in some states where roos can be shot, but must be left on the property so most are left to rot. Overall in Australia, permits for 3.5 million roos are issued per year

Some outfitters may be able to help you find cull hunts. Or even some members.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: NitroX]
      #294568 - 01/02/17 04:37 AM


Same lot of 286 Hornady previously used on a 180 yard moose.Took a whole magazine to anchor it.Harold


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294569 - 01/02/17 04:41 AM

Yikes!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294570 - 01/02/17 04:45 AM


Bergers....................no thanx Harold


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294571 - 01/02/17 04:56 AM


This 180gr Hornady Interlock shot from a .308 Norma Magnum at 3000fps hit a mule deer frontal facing chest shot [instant kill] and key holed through the deer length ways with only a small potion of the nose expanding.Sometimes bullets do strange things........Harold


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294576 - 01/02/17 06:07 AM

That is strange, Harold, for that bullet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #294581 - 01/02/17 07:54 AM

I suspect it tumbled after clipping a rib or sternum.I put one through a decent WT buck at 30 yards ,in and out double lung broadside.He wandered 20 yards off into the bush and was standing all wobbly like a drunken sawhorse,as the rack was so so I put one offhand into his neck an inch below his ear.After cleaning and skinning him the 180gr .30 caliber bullet severed the spinal cord but never made it through the rutted neck muscle.But at least it held together.Harold

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Homer
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #297789 - 25/03/17 08:41 PM

G'Day Fella's,

It is always interesting to see "Independent Images", of recovered bullets.
I think we have all been marketed to enough these days, that we now believe that any fired bullets we have been lucky enough to have recovered, will always look just like ALL the fired and recovered bullets from the manufacturers advertising . In other words, classic Mushroom shaped bullets.
I have a few of them in my collection but.......................

My best advice for you 9.3mm shooters among us, is to get yourself some www.woodleighbullets.com.au, from 250grn thru 320grn!

The thing that we all need to remember, and as mentioned above by others, if you were able to take an image of the dead Bambi etc, the Bullet (and hopefully not Bullets), did its job just fine (just not as we have been marketed and expecting it to).

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Homer]
      #297793 - 25/03/17 10:47 PM

I have a tobacco tin full of mouldy old bullets,many mushrooms,many in pieces,all were recovered from dead deer.
I would rather weigh the deer and not the bullet after the day.

--------------------
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coll416
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #297821 - 26/03/17 11:43 AM

I prefer the 9.3mm 286 grain Woodleigh round nose for my hunting, I start this bullet at 2400fps. This bullet will stay inside bigger pigs shot front on and crash through the chest cavity of big scrub bulls & feral stallions shot side on, when used at ranges less than 50 metres. At longer ranges this bullet drills very deeply on everything! I have found the maligned 270 grain Speer bullet very fatal on hundreds of large ferals (donkeys & horses), this bullet penetrates readily at ranges beyond 100 metres when started at 2500fps, at closer ranges however the shooter needs to choose the shot carefully.

As the range increases bullet penetration improves due to velocity reduction. This phenomenon is consistent with all the bullets & calibres I have used! I have learned that all traditional lead core bullets will under perform (my expectations) if heavy bone is struck at close ranges, Woodleighs included! The shoulders & hips of four legged creatures should be avoided when hammering big game at close range, unless you use the mono-metal bullets. Standard lead core bullets have weaknesses at close ranges but come into their own once some velocity is lost. This contrasts with X bullets which are much better in close & but tend to pencil through once ranges increase. This is particularly true of calibres with slower starting velocities like the 9.3x62.

Many years ago my 30-30 150 grain Speer bullets were zipping through big brumby stallions side on when I shot them beyond about 200 metres, in close the performance was much more dramatic! Both were fatal! My journey had begun!!


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #297824 - 26/03/17 01:59 PM

Quote:


I would rather weigh the deer and not the bullet after the day.




Still, it is very good practice to evaluate the bullet and the damage caused or how long it took to find a deer that ran because the bullet was shit. I find it not only interesting but also very helpful. I always ask other hunters when they have just shot a deer what bullet and what weight, distance, circumstances etc. It is interesting to find how many times the same bullets are responsible for deer running off after being comprehensibly hit, such as the Remington Core-loc. Particularly the 180 grain in a 300 WM, the trophy hunters choice.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #297829 - 26/03/17 02:14 PM

I went on record a long time ago on NE here about two sambar deer I shot with corelocks,killed both but ...not happy! There have been 38 bullets left in the two boxes I bought around 6-7 years now. (7mm rm)

--------------------
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: coll416]
      #297831 - 26/03/17 02:22 PM

Coll416, interesting what you say about both the Woodleigh and the Barnes bullets. I have found that Woodleigh's work perfectly even with heavy bone,at least on the deer, Sambar and Fallow in particular. I have always found that the bullets will smash through bone, damage internals badly with out much meat damage and leave a good exit wound, at least with the 338 WM in 250 grain. Any Barnes X-Bullets that I have seen especially at close range sail straight through and do very little damage of anything, leaving the animal very much alive and running around. Several blokes in our club have had a long and perfect record on Sambar with Woodleigh bullets, have switched to Barnes as a tryout and gone back to the Wooodleigh's because the Barnes bullets just pencil through with little organ damage and a long follow up.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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