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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Hi! I'm Boomer.
#29430 - 14/04/05 01:01 AM

Hi guys.

I wanted to introduce myself to the forum, and this seemed as good a place as any to start. We are off to Tanzania in '06, and buffalo is the motivator.

I've already picked up alot of good information from various threads in this forum, but after watching video of buffalo being taken with all sorts of rifles and cartridges I am perplexed on what should be the appropriate aiming point. I wonder if there isn't something tricky about finding the shoulder on one of these guys. Logic would seem to dictate that if the shoulder is broken it would be unable to support the weight of the animal. Yet in the videos, time and again the buff is able to run off, seeminly on 4 legs, after the client and the PH agree that a good shoulder shot was made. I'm wondering if the "shoulder shot" did not miss the shoulder(s) and perhaps hit the heart and/or lungs. Although fatal, such a shot would not be an immediate stopper on an animal this resiliant. I suppose there is always the possibility of bum bullets, but in the videos there must of been a run on bad bullets if those were all good hits. Unfortunately there were no post-mortems on bullet performance.

If I had a buffalo broadside right now I would aim about a third of the way up the body and slightly forward of what appears to be the center of the shoulder. If he was quartering towards me, I'd go for the point of the near shoulder. Quartering away I'd try to get the center of the off side shoulder. Head on I'd try to brain him at the base of the boss. Straight away, I'd pass up unless it was a follow-up shot, then I'd try to spine him. Am I on the right track, or do I need to be straightened out?

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new_guy
Sponsor

Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29437 - 14/04/05 01:43 AM

In reply to:

Head on I'd try to brain him at the base of the boss.

Welcome aboard! Lots of info there... One thing that stands out to me is the brain shot.

You really need to see a cut-away of a buffalo skull to understand how low the brain sits. Depends on the angle of his head, etc... but the brain sits low in the skull (much closer to the neck vertebrae than it does the boss).

For example, with his nose up high, you would have to go through the nose to get to the brain. Head down (which is usually the last few feet) through the boss would work. I'll try to find some pics for you.

Although they don't show the brain location, here are some good photos (and comments) on shot placement at a variety of angles.

http://www.safaribwana.com/MEMBERS/buffalo%20shot%20placement.htm

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

Edited by new_guy (14/04/05 02:05 AM)

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: new_guy]
#29445 - 14/04/05 02:30 AM

Thanks New Guy -

I guess what I meant to ask with respect to the frontal shot was why would a person choose a chest shot when the head is fully exposed. You do make a good point of coarse with respect to the position of the head at the time of the shot.
Mike

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29455 - 14/04/05 04:57 AM

In reply to:

I guess what I meant to ask with respect to the frontal shot was why would a person choose a chest shot when the head is fully exposed.

I suppose there could be a time and a place for the head shot (under an ideal situation), but realistically that shot should be avoided B/C
1) it's tricky
2) Safaris cost a lot
3) time is limited
4) you don't want to end up "paying for" or much less "tracking" a buff that the horn or bottom jaw got shot off of. Mistakes like that literally take days away from other hunting you could be doing.

Unless he's feet away and bearing down on you (very unlikely situation) there are just too many variables to any given "frontal shot" situation to try for the brain.

You may be able to do it and pull it off (again, in an ideal situation), but the frontal chest shot is a much safer or rather "more sure" bet/alternative. More vitals to hit, bigger target and more certain of doing "trackable" / "killing" damage to a buff.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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shakari
.400 member

Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: new_guy]
#29458 - 14/04/05 05:11 AM

Hi Boomer,

Welcome to the forum.

Might I suggest you buy yourself a copy of The Perfect Shot by Kevin Robertson..........it'll tell you all you need to know.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: shakari]
#29466 - 14/04/05 06:57 AM

Hi Shakari -

That book looks good. I just ordered it!

Thanks
Mike

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member

Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29468 - 14/04/05 07:07 AM

I'll second Shakari's comments about "The Perfect Shot". It's the best one I've seen when it comes to shot placement.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29483 - 14/04/05 11:47 AM

Boomer

Welcome to NitroExpress.com. Thanks for the comments about the forums.

Hope your hunt in Tanzania goes well.

Who are you hunting with and where?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: NitroX]
#29490 - 14/04/05 12:49 PM

NitroX -

Thanks for a warm welcome. The hunt will be with Mark Sullivan. (I noticed in a previous thread that you're not a fan) I don't know what blocks we'll be in, and for that matter I don't know how the hunting blocks are laid out there. Any chance you could enlighten me?
Mike

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29494 - 14/04/05 01:11 PM

Boomer

I can't remember what I said. I try to be neutral nowadays.

Personally I have never met the guy nor hunted with him. Only watched some of his earlier videos. Since then I have seen both pro and con comments on the net. Everyone who has hunted with him has made 'pro' comments and those who haven't often 'con' comments based on watching videos and on ethical arguments.

Based on the actual hunters I expect you will have an excellent hunt. Allen Day sometimes posts on here and has also hunted with Mark Sullivan.

I will also buy some of his later films on DVD sooner or later too.

Good luck on your hunt. I hope you give us a hunt report and photos when you return. Extra direct first hand experience always goes a long way.

PS Mentioning Mark Sullivan on forums is a sure way of generating heat on a thread! Lets see how this one goes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member

Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: NitroX]
#29499 - 14/04/05 01:28 PM

His videos certainly get the adrenalin pumping.Personally, I don't like the way his hunts are portrayed on the videos. However, I've never heard any negative comments about him, or the way his hunts are conducted, by people who have actually hunted with him. So perhaps the videos are just a lot of hype, and not a true indication of how most of his hunts are done. I'll never know though. I met Mark a few years ago, at a sportsman's show, and our personalities just weren't a good mix. His prices were also quite high, and if you wanted to hunt with him and use one of his double rifles, he'd rent one to you for a couple of hundred dollars a day (plus ammo).

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: NitroX]
#29501 - 14/04/05 01:31 PM

NitoX -

My mistake. I went back and reread the Sullivan thread and I think you're actually an MS advocate.

The reason we are going to Tanzania is because of Mark Sullivan. I didn't dream such a hunt would be within my reach, but when I saw the price I said yes, for once in a life time experience we can do this. After that it's back to caribou, polar bears, moose, and seals. HO-HUM!
Mike

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
#29503 - 14/04/05 01:44 PM

Mikeh416Rigby -

Not everyone sees eye to eye, and that is as it should be.

That business of renting a rifle on a dangerous game hunt leaves my blood cold. On one of the Sullivan videos a client with one of Mark's doubles was unable to fire his second barrel, because in the heat of the moment he forgot about the second trigger. Another fellow with Mark's .500 Jeffery bolt gun ran out of ammo. Not for me, no sir. I'll stick with my bear gun, and carry lots of ammo. I hope I get a chance to shoot his .600 at a tree though.
Mike

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Hi! I'm Boomer. [Re: Boomer]
#29504 - 14/04/05 01:56 PM

In reply to:

My mistake. I went back and reread the Sullivan thread and I think you're actually an MS advocate.

Not really an advocate. Neutral please! Can I sit on a fence? I'm the host.

I enjoyed Mark Sullivan's original "Black Death" video because I believe it wasn't staged. The approach was with Mark walking and the client in a vehicle because he was in an wheelchair. The buffalo got up and charged, Mark missed on the first shot (missed or missed the brain) and dumped the bull on the second. Almost got collected himself. Exciting stuff and it got HIS andrenalin going. I also like hunts featuring double rifles.

For later buffalo charge videos I think a formula was used to re-create the charges.

As for ethical or not. As one poster in a previous thread said, many PHs wait for half an hour for the buff to stiffen up. No one has any problem with this on ethical grounds. If following up immediately results in a charge then more luck to the guys facing a charge.

Similarly it is common practice to approach a buffalo from behind and downwind. If approaching it's head and upwind also results in a charge, then there is nothing unethical about that. Most people avoid it though because one day someone will get killed.

Some people claim the animals are intentionally wounded. I have no first hand knowledge on this at all. Nor I have seen anyone print anything who had first hand knowledge of this. On one of his videos he does state the client - made up for a lot of errors because a charge resulted from a wounded buff. Maybe it was "Sudden Death".

Personally I prefer a PH with a different style but everyone likes different things, so go for it.

Lastly where would we be on internet forums without discussions on "Mark Sullivan", "Peter Capstick", "Hemingway" and "Robert Ruark".

If "Capstick" with his stories put African safaris back into the limelight, then maybe Mark Sullivan has also helped re-juvenate the interest in double rifles.

(Those last two paragraphs were designed to put the cat among the pigeons! )

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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