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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Joshua
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Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 248
Loc: north carolina, usa
Building a muzzleloader
      #294063 - 20/01/17 04:12 AM

I have seen a few here and heard of few others doing them, but wondering what is involved in turning a remington rolling block into a nice muzzleloader

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bouldersmith
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Reged: 23/03/06
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294115 - 21/01/17 11:22 AM

I built my inline on a roller. Not much too the conversion really. Thread barrel as you would normally and fit to the action, then instead of cutting the chamber I threaded the breach for a TC breach plug and soldered on the under rib and thimbles. If I do another it will likely be on a Ballard. Good luck.

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New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Joshua
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Posts: 248
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: bouldersmith]
      #294139 - 22/01/17 08:17 AM

Bouldersmith, if I have any questions can I pm you?

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bouldersmith
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294143 - 22/01/17 01:03 PM

of course, happy to help.
Steve

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TexasJohn
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Reged: 06/04/10
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: bouldersmith]
      #294169 - 23/01/17 02:11 AM

Bouldersmith,
How about some more pictures of your roller. I saw one and it was just a tease. Please.

TexasJohn

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."

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bouldersmith
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: TexasJohn]
      #294213 - 24/01/17 04:36 AM









Never did finish that fore end......

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: bouldersmith]
      #294232 - 24/01/17 10:57 AM

bouldersmith, I understand that action is not very strong in a standard centerfire configuration, but does it hold up nicely as a muzzleloader? How did you adapt it to handle the primer?

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bouldersmith
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294243 - 24/01/17 11:06 PM

The pressure is contained by the breech plug(2nd picture) just like any muzzleloader. The breech block only holds the primer in place. The strength in this system is in the barrel and breech plug not in the action itself. You are basically bypassing the action and using it simply to hold the barrel and fire the primer. This is one reason I mentioned Ballard actions earlier, you could build a more powerful muzzleloader on one that you can a cartridge rifle. I shoot 110grains of triple seven out of my roller.

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: bouldersmith]
      #294252 - 25/01/17 01:24 PM

That's one hell of a charge of triple 7. What cal is it.

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bouldersmith
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Wayne59]
      #294260 - 25/01/17 10:41 PM

.50 cal, I have not chronographed it but according to the charts it should be moving a 240 grain bullet at about 1750 fps.

Edited by Daryl_S (29/01/17 08:02 AM)

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: bouldersmith]
      #294374 - 28/01/17 11:27 AM

That is pretty damn good I say. Congrats on a functional and beautiful rifle

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294412 - 29/01/17 08:10 AM

240gr. bullets sounds like a .45 cal.

The RB action, seems to me, should work quite safely to about 30,000psi.

100gr. of T7 would be equivalent to about 115gr. 2F GOEX, thus would be a slightly light .45 express-type load.

The generated pressure should be in the lower to mid 20,000psi range. If it shoots well, I would stay with that.

A full express-load of about 115gr. T7 should push pressures to the higher 20,000psi range - about max for the action, in god condition.

A 'modern' Navy Arms (Pedersoli) RB action would be much stronger than an original, although most data for those modern actions is suggested to be held to 30,000psi or less.

In my honest opinion, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
      #294424 - 29/01/17 12:23 PM

Good point Daryl, tho if I understand bouldersmith correctly the action is not used much in the firing. Maybe I misunderstood and if so hope he speaks up. But I love the idea of building a muzzle loader on a classic rolling block

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294425 - 29/01/17 12:27 PM

How did you attach the breech plug to the action or Barrel? That part I am really curious about

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294429 - 29/01/17 01:33 PM

The barrel's breech plug could be threaded into the back end of the barrel, or simply slid in and head-spaces against the rifle's rolling block, just as a ctg. case would in a CF ctg.

The TC shotshell primer seat is threaded into the centre of the barrel's breech plug. The firing pin hits the inserted primer and POW!

The breech is still 'taking' the pressure just as if there was a ctg. in it - only this time, the ctg. is the threaded (or not) breech block in what would be a 'chamber' in a CF rifle.

This is a very simple system.

In the past, some guys, when wanting more powder capacity than the BP ctg. could contain, have used a chambered empty ctg., action at 1/2 mast (cock), like a .45/70 brass case, then poured in a measured powder charge- 80 to 120gr.of powder, then muzzle seated a bullet on the powder - then fired. This was done by Paul Mathews friend and gun smith using a rolling block rifle.

This type of loading is usually felt to be unsafe (pouring powder than loading a ball o bullet into an already cocked rifle, 1/2 bent or not and is generally not recommended by today's slightly more safety conscious crowd.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
      #294435 - 29/01/17 02:15 PM

The other day on one of the sportsmen channels there was a so called expert demonstrating loading a flint lock. The first thing he did was cock the hammer (cock) charge the pan and then proceed to charge the arm and seat the ball. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair. Then I remembered some poor soul might actually think this is the proper procedure.

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Wayne59]
      #294455 - 30/01/17 01:56 AM

Thank you for the clarification of that Daryl. I myself will stay away from the style of loading you mentioned, just my choice and nothing against anyone who does it like that.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Wayne59]
      #294466 - 30/01/17 07:55 AM

One must consider that priming before loading the charge was the method taught by the military from the invention of the side lock muskets until the caplock obsoleted them.

This was done due to the issue paper ctgs.

The making of a French Ctg. for the musket.


English Ctgs.






Note, the American Army issued both buck and ball as well as single ball. Buck and ball loads used, more than doubled the numbers of those with a single ball.
When cap-locks obsoleted the flinters, the cap (priming) was placed on the nipple after the load was rammed down WITH 3 blows of the rod on the seated ball.

We try to discourage people from doing that today, but many still do. Throwing the rod on the ball damages the ball, meals the powder changing it's burning rate and has the potential to detonate the powder if the barrel is hot already. Piston fire starters are an example. Apparently once at a Southern US rendezvous, a man's rifle discharged on the 2nd or 3rd 'throw'. Now, did the percussion/compression of air/powder from the rod on the powder ignite the powder, or an ember still there, from a wimpy load, we'll never know. I do know or a fact, many fellows South of the border use too thin patches and leave a dangerous discharge possibility unless wiped after every shot.

Old habits die hard, good or bad.

Today, we do not allow priming before loading the gun, for obvious reasons.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
      #294467 - 30/01/17 07:59 AM

I should have noted, that Paul mentioned this only as an interesting experiment if one wanted to try this method.

After the primed empty ctg. was placed in the chamber and the action closed, a cupped buffer of brass was placed on the block between the firing pin and the hammer's nose, then the hammer let done on the block. Thus, the hammer could not possibly touch the firing pin.

This made the rifle safe.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Joshua
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
      #294475 - 30/01/17 10:17 AM

That last part makes me feel better about that option then

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Building a muzzleloader [Re: Joshua]
      #294487 - 30/01/17 03:23 PM

I haven't tried the above method, except for in my .50/70 Sharps, however, I breech seated the bullet then shoved in a case full (80gr.) of powder behind it.

This load was possible with the overly long 1867 chambers Sharps put in the caplock to centre fire conversions. Their chambers were 1.9" long, not 1 3/4" which was standardized in 1868 for the rolling block rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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