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KWJohnston
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Reged: 18/04/14
Posts: 60
Loc: U.S.
Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges
      #293153 - 05/01/17 04:53 AM

A question For those of you lucky enough to have handled an original Daniel Fraser Mauser.

I have looked at 2 examples of Original Fraser rifles on the internet recently, both built on 1896 Mauser small ring actions. Both are also set up for rimmed cartridges. One is currently on the Steve Barnett website for sale and chambered for .303 British. The other was sold by Hollowell&Co. and was chambered for .360 2 1/4 Nitro Express. Both of the 96 actions appear to use the original box magazine and floorplate.

How did Fraser modify these actions to feed/chamber rimmed rounds properly ? Was the original box magazine somehow modified internally ? Or is it simply a matter of opening the bolt face and feed rails ?

I understand Rigby used a slanted box magazine for rimmed rounds, however as I said above these rifles appear to use the original Military Box magazine.

Wyatt

--------------------
"Tell him in the morning in our tribe we always shoot them twice. Later in the day we shoot them once. In the evening we are often half shot ourselves." - Ernest Hemingway

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dons
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Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: KWJohnston]
      #293164 - 05/01/17 11:00 AM

I question Steve Barnett's description of an "1896 Mauser" action. I don't see it called an 1896 in his add. The 1896 was an action for the Swedish market chambered in 6.5x55. The 1893 & 1895 Mauser actions were used solely for Fraser's 303 Rimless proprietary round. The slant box for 303 British round was introduced on the 1898 action and sold through Rigby. There is a lot of confusion regarding these actions and chamberings.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: dons]
      #293167 - 05/01/17 12:51 PM

Too- most outfits who sell the husky Model 46's, calling them all Swedish Model 1896's in 6.5x55, 8x57, 9.3x57 and 9.3x62.

The guys on a Swedish forum I've been to, discussing these rifles, call them Swedish Model 1894's. I'd thought the 1894 action had a straight bolt, while many of these are bent.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: DarylS]
      #293247 - 06/01/17 12:34 PM

Yes, Fraser action seems to be similar like Husqvarna m46A action but without any thumb cut.





Husqvarna made later m648 which early version has "strenghtened" m46 action - without any thumb cut.

I don´t know how it would be possible to say if these Fraser rifles has a slanted magazine or not ?

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Wayne59
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: Igorrock]
      #293253 - 06/01/17 01:58 PM

Probable just like a Siamese Mauser. Open up the bolt face and machine off some of the feed rails.

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KWJohnston
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Reged: 18/04/14
Posts: 60
Loc: U.S.
Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: Wayne59]
      #293290 - 07/01/17 03:42 AM

Dons, you brought up a good point. I did find where Fraser had their own proprietary .303 Cartridge that was in fact Rimless.

Steve Barnett is a gun Dealer...not a collector/enthusiast. He, or his people, probable saw the .303 designation and assumed it to be .303 British rather than .303 Fraser rimless. If so that solves that problem.

However, the Fraser rifle that Hollowell sold was chambered for .360 2 1/4 Nitro Express. That is a rimmed cartridge for sure. Unless this was Fraser's way of marking rifles chambered for a rimless round like 9.3x57 ect ??

Wyatt

--------------------
"Tell him in the morning in our tribe we always shoot them twice. Later in the day we shoot them once. In the evening we are often half shot ourselves." - Ernest Hemingway

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KWJohnston
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Reged: 18/04/14
Posts: 60
Loc: U.S.
Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: KWJohnston]
      #293293 - 07/01/17 04:25 AM

Igorrock, I really can't say for sure the Fraser rifles did not have a slant box magazine.... However,the bottom metal on the Fraser rifles appears to be exactly like the standard military version. The floor plate is directly below the action, and not set back rearward as in a slant box magazine. The Rigby models and Siamese Mauser have a floor plate slightly more to the back because of the box slanting rearward.

Here is the Hollowell gun :
http://www.hallowellco.com/danl%20fraser%20360.htm

Wyatt

--------------------
"Tell him in the morning in our tribe we always shoot them twice. Later in the day we shoot them once. In the evening we are often half shot ourselves." - Ernest Hemingway

Edited by KWJohnston (07/01/17 04:31 AM)

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Igorrock
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: KWJohnston]
      #293302 - 07/01/17 05:25 AM

If you look more carefully trigger guard fore end you could notice it's not similar like original miltary version like in foto below. For some reason Fraser's guards fore end has re-modelled. It's quite difficult to compare Fraser's trigger guard dimensions to, for example, Siamese Mauser's one because guard bow is totally different between them.





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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Igorrock
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: KWJohnston]
      #293305 - 07/01/17 06:00 AM

This Fraser Mauser appears to 9,3x57 i.e. with non-rimmed case:









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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: Igorrock]
      #293309 - 07/01/17 06:42 AM

Those D.Fraser bolt actions on pre – 98 Mauser actions I have seen so far are all built on the Chilean and Boer war M95 action, not on the Swedish 94 (carbine) – 96 (rifle) action used on the Husqvarna sporters. Important details allowing identification are visible in the photos of the ".360 Fraser" offered by Hallowell. The boer war Mausers did not have the upright protusion on the cocking piece nor the narrow bolt guide rib of the Swedish and 98 actions, but a small rectangular "safety" lug on the receiver, just behind the bolt handle. They also had a much shallower "thumbhole" cutout in the left receiver wall. Besides adding a typical bolt handle, Fraser did a lot of file work on the bottom metal before stocking the action: The front end was wasp waisted and the triggerguard filed to a Scottish style. Otherwise, the magazine of the Fraser looks normal for a 95 Mauser.
BTW, the barrel of one of my own Oberndorf commercial B 98 Mausers in 9.3x62 (not a Fraser) is also marked with an imperial designation, .366.
The service load for the rimmed/flanged .360 NE 2 1/4" was a 300 gr bullet in front of 30, not 35 gr cordite!

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dons
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Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: Igorrock]
      #293321 - 07/01/17 07:57 AM

The Hallowell Fraser is built on an 1895 action. Note the 3rd bolt stop behind the bolt handle. This identifies the 1895. Most of the 303 rimless Frasers were rechambered to the 7.65x53 Argentinian round because the 303 rimless round became obsolete.

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KWJohnston
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Reged: 18/04/14
Posts: 60
Loc: U.S.
Re: Daniel Fraser Mausers chambered for Rimmed Cartridges [Re: dons]
      #293331 - 07/01/17 11:18 AM

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this topic. It is truly enjoyable to study these classic rifles !

I have certainly learned some things. Possibly the mystery of the Fraser rifles has been solved... They were built using 1895 actions. They also untilized the original box magazine and floorplate. Most importantly, they were chambered for rimless rounds such as the .303 Fraser, NOT rimmed cartridges like the .303 British.


Wyatt

--------------------
"Tell him in the morning in our tribe we always shoot them twice. Later in the day we shoot them once. In the evening we are often half shot ourselves." - Ernest Hemingway

Edited by KWJohnston (07/01/17 12:39 PM)

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