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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States

9.3 barrels?
#291867 - 13/12/16 03:09 AM

Hello to all.

I have been in correspondence with Green Mountain Barrel Co concerning them making some .366" barrel blanks with 1-10" or 1-11" twist. We are just at the "talking stage" right now, but I am hoping this will go forward.

The 9.3X62 cartridge is an excellent hunting round that is not super popular here in the USA, but seems to be up and coming. The bullet companies seem to know it. Barnes, Hornady, Swift, Nosler, and Speer all make bullets for them here in the USA, and Woodleigh, Norma, Lapua and Prvi make them overseas. Possibly a few others I am unaware of too.

The old black powder 9.3s were often rifled at about 1-20". As smokeless powders came into use the twist was tightened up. Today the 2 most common twists are 1-14" and 1-12" but even the 1-12" is just barely enough twist to keep 320 grain bullets stable. So I am suggesting they make these barrels with a 1-11 or 1-10 twist. Firing a 225 grain bullet from the fast twist is just fine, but firing the long heavy 320 from the slower twist is sometimes not fine, so I can see no reason to even make the slow twist.

Anyway, I am putting feelers out on line.

How many of you would be interested in buying a barrel blank (or maybe a few) for a 9.3X62, a 9.3X64 or a 9.3X74R with a bit faster twist?

Green Mountain said they would consider making a run of 100 of them if there was a market. I am pretty sure there is.

What say ye?

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Wanabebwana
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#291896 - 13/12/16 08:53 AM

The 9.3x62 was designed in 1905 as a smokeless powder cartridge it was never offered as a black powder round unlike the 9.3x72R. CZ barrels have a 1:14 twist, Ruger 1:10 and Schilen barrels are 1:12 all of which will stabilize bullets up to 325grs. CZ, Ruger, Sako, Zastava,Sauer, Blazer and others offer this chambering. I have a Husqvarna 640 made in 1947 with an FN action and 23.6" barrel. It does the job with less meat damage than a .300 mag.

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: Wanabebwana]
#291898 - 13/12/16 09:14 AM

Correct, the 9.3X74R was never a Black powder round, but every one I know of made before 1905 was.

One exception may be the 9.3X57 Mauser, but I have not been able to nail that one down.One German customer of mine says that cartridge came out in 1902, but most others tell me it was introduced after the 9.3X74R. I have not been able to find out myself

I have done restoration work on 2 old German guns made for strange shells which had .365 and .366 bores, obviously rifled for lead bullets and I suspect they may have originally used paper patched rounds, but I was not able to find out.

But back to the subject;

I have a Ruger. It is VERY accurate. More so than I was expecting. It has the only 9.3MM barrel I have ever seen made in the USA with a 1-10" twist. I have shot 225 grain German bullets and it shoots them very well, and it also shoots 270 and 286 grain bullets very well.

I would love to hear more about experience with the 320 grain bullets in the 1-12" twist.
I hear both good and bad reports. Some say it's good and some tell me it's barely enough.
I get correspondence from many shooters in various places and the reports differ.

Yet I have never heard a single complaint about the Ruger's not handling the 320 grain bullets, so that's why I am suggesting the 1-10 or 1-11 twist.

If G.M. were to make barrels I think it would be wise to cut them at 1-10". I can see no down side to the faster twist.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#291905 - 13/12/16 10:29 AM

Quote:

Correct, the 9.3X74R was never a Black powder round, but every one I know of made before 1905 was.

One exception may be the 9.3X57 Mauser, but I have not been able to nail that one down.One German customer of mine says that cartridge came out in 1902, but most others tell me it was introduced after the 9.3X74R. I have not been able to find out myself

I have done restoration work on 2 old German guns made for strange shells which had .365 and .366 bores, obviously rifled for lead bullets and I suspect they may have originally used paper patched rounds, but I was not able to find out.

But back to the subject;

I have a Ruger. It is VERY accurate. More so than I was expecting. It has the only 9.3MM barrel I have ever seen made in the USA with a 1-10" twist. I have shot 225 grain German bullets and it shoots them very well, and it also shoots 270 and 286 grain bullets very well.

I would love to hear more about experience with the 320 grain bullets in the 1-12" twist.
I hear both good and bad reports. Some say it's good and some tell me it's barely enough.
I get correspondence from many shooters in various places and the reports differ.

Yet I have never heard a single complaint about the Ruger's not handling the 320 grain bullets, so that's why I am suggesting the 1-10 or 1-11 twist.

If G.M. were to make barrels I think it would be wise to cut them at 1-10". I can see no down side to the faster twist.

My 9.3x57mm, a Husqvarna M46 made in 1929, has a 14" twist and it stabilizes a sized down 300gr. Hornady perfectly at 2,170fps grouping them under an inch at 100 meters off bags.

In the early days, John Taylor tells us that factory loaded 9.3x62 286gr.(or 285gr.) softs and solids ran 2,175fps & that this loading was the one that made the 9.3x62 famous.

It(now my bros. rifle) also shoots 293gr. RWS TUG, 286gr. Norma Dual Core, sized down 235gr. Speer, sized down 225gr. Hornady SP's and Norma 232gr. Vulcan bullets.

He shot a nice black bear with it last fall, in the chest and it exited out one ham - no meat damage to the leg. Not sure, but I think the load made for him was 45.0 or 46.0gr. of H4895 and the yellow tipped Norma 286gr. Dual Core.

I think 12" would be just fine, but 10" or 11" might be better - don't know.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States

Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: DarylS]
#291911 - 13/12/16 10:56 AM

Well maybe I am wrong. Maybe a 1-12 would be fine. My Ruger #1 has 1-10" and it shoots everything I have tried from "good" to "REALLY good"!

That one reason I was thinking 1-10"

Ok guys...come-on.....input Input!

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ducmarc
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#291919 - 13/12/16 01:04 PM

Pac-nor lists .366 9.3 barrels and there pretty resonable

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: ducmarc]
#291925 - 13/12/16 03:27 PM

The folks at Green Mountain say the price for their blanks will likely be in the $120 range. Pac-Nor's least expensive is about $275, so you can see why I'd love to have G.M. make them for me. Some other companies are quite a lot higher.

I have used Shilen and Douglas in the past, but I would really like GM to start these.

I have been using G.M. Barrels for many years now and I have been very pleased with the accuracy. None have been bummers".

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#291948 - 14/12/16 07:27 AM

szihn
I had my 9.3x64 made up about 30 years ago - I think it was a Donnerly? barrel from the States.
Twist rate is 350mm or 13.779486".
Shoots 270gn Speers (light load) at 2100fps, 286gn Woodleighs (Protected point & Solids) at 2630fps & 293gn TUGs right on factory spec of 2570fps - all of which loads are more than accurate enough to do for what it was designed to do - well for me anyway!
None went sideways through the paper & groups were not blown if I did my part, nothing ever got away that I ever shot at!
Accuracy, lets just say my rifle shoots far better than me!
Never tried 320gns, & because the 1st generation hydros (no caps) didn't feed well in my rifle I never continued with testing to see how good they'd go - from memory they shot alright, but never kept the records or notes - sorry!
Will try the 2nd generation ones when I need to as these have protective caps to add feeding!
93x64mm

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#291950 - 14/12/16 08:00 AM

GM barrels are very accurate - that price is super. I can well see the drive to have them make up a bunch!
I have a GM 18" .45 barrel that thinks it's a BR barrel.

Pac-Nor barrels are very accurate as well - super accurate and super clean shooting. The last one I bought - number of years ago now, was over $300.00 landed here.

$120.00 is incredible if contoured blank, but still great if full sized blank.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: DarylS]
#291962 - 14/12/16 10:24 AM

Thanks 9.3X64, that's the kind of info I am looking for. I truly wish you had kept record of the 320 grain bullets and their groups size, but I am sure other readers here have some information for me. The 9.3 is a very popular caliber in many places, but not all that popular in the USA Not yet anyway.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Daryl, these blanks will be just that.....blanks. No taper, no threads. 25" and maybe 27" long, 1.200 in diameter.

This is the kind of barrels many gunsmiths often like because they can make anything they want from them, and these barrels are what I like to buy because I get a lot of call for restorations. The new "modern" contours are often not the same as what we see on guns of 75 to 100 years old. From a blank I can do anything I need to do.

It does mean that turning and contouring are necessary, but if someone doesn't want to do that (or cannot do it) they can buy Pac-Nor or Shilen. One man e-mailed me and said Douglas will do a 1-10" twist, but I have not been able to verify that.

If I get a lot of mail from men shooting 9.3X74Rs and 9.3X62s with the 1-12 twist and they all tell me that the 320s shoot fine I may rethink the order and tell them to cut them 1-12" Maybe not though.....my #1 Ruger is 1-10" and I can't see any down-side to the faster twist.

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Wanabebwana
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: szihn]
#292026 - 15/12/16 08:16 AM

I really cannot see the point of shooting 320gr bullets from a 9.3x62 unless you are going after a wounded lion at 30yrds range, which no PH would allow. The 285/286gr loads are about ideal for the heavy stuff as they give longer range and better penetration than the 320/325gr. The 325gr Normas are designed for the standard 1:14 twist. There is a down side to a fast twist even if it is minor. More recoil more torque effect, more fouling, lower velocity, faster barrel wear.As I said very minor but if there is no improvement in bullet stability why not just accept the established gun manufacturers' norms.
This article from Real Guns may interest the handloaders. The Gun tested is a Ruger 77 with 23" barrel.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/93x62mm.htm

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: Wanabebwana]
#292034 - 15/12/16 08:46 AM

TKS for the clarification, Steve.

WBBwanna- thanks for that link.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: 9.3 barrels? [Re: DarylS]
#292341 - 20/12/16 03:34 PM

Wannabebwana, it's my understanding that the Ruger used a 1-10" twist. So my guess is that 1-10" IS within established gun manufacturers' norms. Just on the tight side. If the 1-12 will stabilize the 320 and 325 grain bullets I personally would be OK with it, but I am fairly new to the 9.3 bore size and don't have the base of knowledge that some other shooters and gunsmiths may have. MY idea of asking for 1-10" is based on what limited reports I have heard, and also because the Ruger uses it and my #1 is super accurate with everything I have tried so far.

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