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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
9.3mm/ .366 bore
      #291866 - 13/12/16 03:07 AM

Hello to all.

I have been in correspondence with Green Mountain Barrel Co concerning them making some .366" barrel blanks with 1-10" or 1-11" twist. We are just at the "talking stage" right now, but I am hoping this will go forward.

The 9.3X62 cartridge is an excellent hunting round that is not super popular here in the USA, but seems to be up and coming. The bullet companies seem to know it. Barnes, Hornady, Swift, Nosler, and Speer all make bullets for them here in the USA, and Woodleigh, Norma, Lapua and Prvi make them overseas. Possibly a few others I am unaware of too.

The old black powder 9.3s were often rifled at about 1-20". As smokeless powders came into use the twist was tightened up. Today the 2 most common twists are 1-14" and 1-12" but even the 1-12" is just barely enough twist to keep 320 grain bullets stable. So I am suggesting they make these barrels with a 1-11 or 1-10 twist. Firing a 225 grain bullet from the fast twist is just fine, but firing the long heavy 320 from the slower twist is sometimes not fine, so I can see no reason to even make the slow twist.

Anyway, I am putting feelers out on line.

How many of you would be interested in buying a barrel blank (or maybe a few) for a 9.3X62, a 9.3X64 or a 9.3X74R with a bit faster twist?

Green Mountain said they would consider making a run of 100 of them if there was a market. I am pretty sure there is.

What say ye?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #291876 - 13/12/16 05:14 AM

I'd be interested in a barrel if it were still possible to get one from the States - I've been told, NOT!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #291895 - 13/12/16 08:53 AM

Really Daryl?
I had no idea that was now illegal.

Would that include a rifled blank? No contour, no chamber, no threads.

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #291897 - 13/12/16 09:11 AM

Prophet River will import gun parts from the States to Canada , including barrels, for a $50 fee.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #291964 - 14/12/16 11:51 AM

$50 would not be bad if 2-4 barrels were in a box together. $50 per barrel might price himself out of the market.
What do you guys think?

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #292032 - 15/12/16 08:33 AM

$50 represents 3% of total budget for base custom rifle in the 1.5k range. A rechambered Husqvarna 146 or 640 with a very good bore would supply a fine commercial FN 98 action and a quality barrel, with sights and barrel band swivel stud as a bonus, for a minimal cash layout. But you will have to trust that a 1:14" twist will stabilize the heavyweights. I use 250 and 270gr pills in 9.3x57, 270 and 285 in 9.3x62, 300gr in .375H&H.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #292035 - 15/12/16 08:55 AM

As to Husky's - not very expensive at all.
New recoil pad and refinish.

+ cost of a reamer or leave it where it is and easily make early if not later 9.3x62 performance.

https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/m98-mauser-sporter-93x57

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #292106 - 16/12/16 04:19 AM

Well I am a bit surprised this has not gotten more excitement. I have this idea posted on 3 sites and I have e-mail it to about 15 other gunsmiths.
So far I have about 30 men who said they would want one, but I expected to have more by now.

I hope it takes off, but I can understand why GM would not do it for less than 100 barrels.

I'll let this go for a while and poke at it one or two times a month and report to Green mountain what I am told.

If it doesn't take off----- well then it was an interesting question to put out, but nothing more.

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #292119 - 16/12/16 07:15 AM

Szihn, shame mate that this calibre hasn't taken off; so don't be disappointed & please keep chipping away!
I have to agree with Daryl, even the "small" 9.3x57 still has a good size clout, even when compared the 9.3x64! All are good rounds because they all had good projectiles from the start.
You'll get there mate, it took me years to get my barrel - its well worth all the trouble in the end.
That's why I love this type of reloading, something apart from the 'common' calibres & getting it going just as good or better than factory specs - which I can with mine without busting a valve!
Keep up the good work matey
Cheers
93x64mm

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: 93x64mm]
      #292125 - 16/12/16 08:59 AM

With a 24" barrel, a 250gr bullet in a .358 Win can be safely pushed to 2400fps and in a .35 Whelen to 2600fps. The 9.3x57 has a case capacity that is the average of the two. In addition it has a slightly larger diameter bullet,(higher volumetric efficiency), and the bullet can be seated farther out in a standard 3.3" Mauser 98 magazine, further increasing powder room.
In a strong bolt action it should be possible to reach 2500fps with a 250gr and 2400fps with a 270gr. at .30-06 pressures. This produces 3400+ ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle making it a very efficient and more than suitable cartridge for all N.A. big game except brown bears. Will find out next spring with dies and chronograph recently purchased. Will reload Norma brass and form cases from 8x57 domestic cases.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #292126 - 16/12/16 10:33 AM

Years ago, working through e-mails with Rod H. of Idaho, we came to the conclusion the 9.3x57, in a model 98, should be able to just about duplicate the 1930's 9.3x62 data, ie: 286gr. at 2,340fps.

At that time, in my M46 Husky with the model 96-type bolt and metal, I was running 2,550fps with 225gr. re-sized .375's, 2,450fps with 232gr. Norma Vulcans, along with 2,300fps with 270gr. Speers, 2,200fps with 286gr. Norma and PriviPartisan bullets. The resized 300gr. Hornady I was pushing out at 2,170fps, which virtually duplicates or exceeds the early 9.3x62 data of a 285 soft and solid at 2,175fps.

I have some old style Barnes 250gr. Spitzers I should load and try in my bro's rifle. I suspect they will easily make 2,400fps.

All of these loads generated less than .0005" (1/2 thou) expansion of the web from FL sized cases.

Extraction, as expected from what were seemingly low to low moderate pressures, was effortless, as was re-sizing due to the slight case expansion.

It's a hell of a round, actually and deserving of modern ballistics in modern actions.

Norma is the only producer of factory ammo, I think, and their loads of 285gr. at 2,050fps produce 44,000PSI Pezio, 38,000CUP.

The same weakest action barreled and chambered for the 9.3x57, is also barreled and chambered for the 6.5x55 Swede at 55,000PSI, the 7x57 Mauser, 8x57 Mauser and 9.3x63 Mauser, all running 57,000PSI CIP maximums.

So - there is some room to work with here as well as perhaps even more wiggle room in a model 98 Mauser action.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #292149 - 17/12/16 03:34 AM

I have long thought a 9X57 would be a cool addition to my collection and I may someday make one for myself. Having good quality inexpensive barrel blanks would push me over the edge I am sure, but if I make a 9.3 to go with my 9.3X74R Ruger #1, the 1st one I make is going o be a 9.3X62. The merits of the cartridge are outstanding when you look at what it gives you for how little investment, and being lighter and holding 2 more rounds in the mag doesn't hurt anything either.

I own 30 cals. A 30-30, some 308s some 30-06s and two 300s. So having several guns that shoot the same diameter bullets is just fine with me.

I think I may do the same thing sometime with the .366" bullets. Might be fun.


Edited by szihn (17/12/16 03:35 AM)

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
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Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #292156 - 17/12/16 06:59 AM

Daryl, if my 9.3x57 can duplicate 9.3x62 ballistics at <55000psi I will be quite satisfied. I also plan to develop modern loads for my 8x57IS and newly acquired 8x64S. The Mauser cartridges are in FN 98 Mausers with 3.3" mags and the 8x64S Brennecke is in a BRNO ZG47 with a 3.46" mag.So I can seat the heavier bullets flush with the base of the neck.

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #292766 - 29/12/16 12:06 PM

Remember guys, if you want to have some blanks available soon for a very good price, give Green mountain a call. let them know you want some .366 barrels with 1-10 or 1-12 twist.
They have "their feelers out" about this now too.

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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #292783 - 29/12/16 07:49 PM

Guys

My Lothar Walther barrel has a 14.2" twist rate & stabilises 320gn Woodleigh RN easily shooting 1.0"groups at 100.0m! The Greenhill formula indicates a 15.5"twist rate for 1.45"bullet length!!!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #292805 - 30/12/16 06:25 AM

Quote:

Daryl, if my 9.3x57 can duplicate 9.3x62 ballistics at <55000psi I will be quite satisfied. I also plan to develop modern loads for my 8x57IS and newly acquired 8x64S. The Mauser cartridges are in FN 98 Mausers with 3.3" mags and the 8x64S Brenneke is in a BRNO ZG47 with a 3.46" mag.So I can seat the heavier bullets flush with the base of the neck.



As most commercial chamber throats allow longer ctg. overall lengths than the magazines allow, being able to seat the bullets out not only improves accuracy, but also increases case capacity.

In rifles with chambers too long to reach the lands with the bullet, seating more deeply in the case, reducing case capacity also increases pressure. Being able to seat long, allows more powder due to the increased case capacity.

If the 9.3x57 is chambered in a M98 action, 55,000psi is not your upper limit. Even the m46's in M96's or M94's in any of the 57mm rounds, or the 9.3x62 have CIP limits of 57,000PSI. The 6.5x55 is listed as 55,000psi.

If you could barrel up a .30/06, or .308Win., your 'upper' limit just grew to 60,000psi or 62,000PSI - .270Win or 6mm Rem raises it even further, just with factory ammo.

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #292827 - 30/12/16 03:14 PM

Coll416 that's the kind of input I am looking for.

I have a 1-10" twist in my Ruger and I have no complaints at all, but I hear rumors about slower twist rates with heavy bullets. You have actual experience and that's what I want to hear, not just rumor.

If anyone else here has a 1-12" or a 1-14" twist please post your results with bullets of 300 + grains so I can speak to the folks at GM and have real facts to share with them. Also keep in mind that these blanks may be made into guns in 9.3X57, 9.3X62, 9.3X64 and 9.3X74R so I want to hear from everyone that has rifles of the 9.3 bore size, not just people shooting the 9.3X62 cartridge.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: szihn]
      #292828 - 30/12/16 03:26 PM

Steve - I ran re-sized 300gr., but RN's, mind you, at 2,170fps with sub-1" at 100 meters - for 5 shots, from a 1929 model 46 Husky, 9.3x57 with 3-9X Bushnell 3200. That rifle has a 14" twist, which was also the common twist for most .35's IIRC, back to those days.

Pretty sure that 12" would shoot EVERYTHING you are likely to load - to 350gr. at least.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: 9.3mm/ .366 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #292833 - 30/12/16 04:52 PM

Ok, maybe I'll ask GM to make 1-12" the standard twist. The 1-10" seems to do no harm, but perhaps it does no good in comparison to the 1-12" either.

And a faster twist does generate a bit more recoil all other things being equal.

The 9.3X57 was an issue in the back of my mind. Of the common 9.3s still made it's the slowest one, so I was thinking that 1-12" may not be perfect from the 57 Mauser case. If you are getting MOA from a 9.3X57 with long heavy bullet it seems obvious that 1-12" is going to do fine. The 62, 64 and 74 are all faster.
I am learning something here.


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