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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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ducmarc
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best african plains rifle
      #291419 - 05/12/16 02:13 AM

Turned my attention to a economy plains game hunt in Africa instead of Alaska which I've been saving for what is the best rifle to bring? Would I want an off the shelf caliber in case I have to by ammunition? And what's the rules on ammunition? Do u bring it or buy it there im sure every country is different and haven't nailed that part down yet.but most likely SA , nambia or Zambia.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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szihn
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291427 - 05/12/16 03:59 AM

What rifles do you have now?

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Ripp
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291440 - 05/12/16 07:01 AM

Quote:

Turned my attention to a economy plains game hunt in Africa instead of Alaska which I've been saving for what is the best rifle to bring? Would I want an off the shelf caliber in case I have to by ammunition? And what's the rules on ammunition? Do u bring it or buy it there im sure every country is different and haven't nailed that part down yet.but most likely SA , nambia or Zambia.



If it were me I would bring a .375H&H, especially if you have the potential of being around DG...If this is not an issue, any gun you use for deer, elk, caribou will do fine there for PG..use a good bullet (Swifts, Barnes) and as always, shot placement is everything..I prefer a 30 caliber myself..but lighter will work..30's work better and 33's work even better...an 30'06, 300 Win or above would do great...Typically shots are 200 yds or less unless you are in Namibia where they can be longer..but many times the shots are much less--150-100 or less for most of it..again, depending on where you are at..

If you have never been there before I suggest checking out the shot placement book just as a quick reference by Kevin Robertson..or skip the book and just shoot everything on the point of the shoulder.. game there dies just like anywhere else..especially if you let the air out or take out the main engine ..having said that, game there also has an incredible will to live..depending on where you hunt, they have predators galore from the time they hit the ground until they are on someone's dinner table..that seems to translate to the "toughness" factor that you read about..

As to ammo, BRING YOUR OWN..do not wait to buy there..and when you leave, leave the left over there..it is normally very much appreciated..as it is normally harder to get there and more expensive..as to ammo, I load my own and only use Swifts..not saying they are the only bullet to use, but they do an incredible job no matter what caliber you use..in addition, when I do go there normally I shoot a heavy for caliber bullet..I really like 200gr A-Frames out of my 300RUM..they worked awesome on Impala, Bushbuck, Hyena,Zebra, Eland, Hippo and Croc the last time I was in Zim....all one shot kills with that combo..

I am not an expert but am making my 5th trip there in about 6 weeks..sure I will have more info to put forth upon my return..Also one of my best friends has been there 12 times in the past 6 years, I get a lot of info from him as well..any further questions send a PM or follow up on here..happy to help..

Ripp

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gryphon
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291446 - 05/12/16 08:36 AM

Its sort of goes no matter where or what we hunt/shoot..break both shoulders and nothing CAN go anywhere.

Right calibre and right ammo will do it..as Ripp said the .375 aitch!

--------------------
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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #291447 - 05/12/16 09:11 AM

I have a plethora of 3006 a270 a 303 and a 9x57 which I'm considering rechambering to either 35 Whelen or 358 Norma mag two of the 06s could be chamber to what ever their Patten 17 enfields

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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DarylS
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291457 - 05/12/16 10:44 AM

The 9mm would make a great .35 Whelen. Sometimes finding good .358" bullets is a chore.

A good shot with an '06 and great bullets should be able to take anything legal with that bore size.

I'd still rather have my .375 with those 270gr. TSX at 2,650fps. Not bad for a .30/06 case, eh.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #291462 - 05/12/16 12:19 PM

If you have the experience to handle the recoil I would buy a 375H&H.

If you don't want to do that for any reason I would recommend you use the 30-06 with 220 or 220 grain bullets.

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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: szihn]
      #291465 - 05/12/16 01:06 PM

Kinda always wanted a 375 I've shot my friends 416 Rigby and it wasn't as bad as the 45 -120 I just finished up so the 375 shouldn't be a problem.been reading the other thread about the 375 h&h kinda rekindled those thoughts.what ever I build it will be a working mans rifle.something not to worry about dropping or scratching.maybe even parkerize it

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291470 - 05/12/16 02:03 PM

Backing up a little I read about the 318 Westley Richards and would like to have one some day.but is it really any better than a 3006 with heavy bullets.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Postman
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291482 - 05/12/16 11:02 PM

I would cast my vote for a .375H&H. It will shoot as far as you'd ever want to shoot and it will scale up nicely to take the larger antelope. Kudu, gemsbok, zebra, and if course eland are pretty darn big and a bit of extra weight and diameter is a good thing in a premium bullet. I used my .375 H&H Kodiak to take a warthog and Impala using 300 grain TSX with great effect and not a lot of wasted meat which at least to me shows it scales down nicely as well. With the short stainless barrel and laminate stock, it is ideal to push through the tag alders in driving rain in the far north country of north America hunting moose if that type of miserable wet condition hunting turns your crank. Likewise, no issues with hunting the ultra humid jungles of the world. Ammo is widely available world wide. Versatile is the word!!

Edited by Postman (06/12/16 04:29 AM)

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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Postman]
      #291483 - 05/12/16 11:53 PM

Reloading it seems a bargain compared most of the other cartages we mess with here also.looked last night for a barrel might go with a Shaw have one on my 6mm and shoots pretty good.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291513 - 06/12/16 12:29 PM

So are the speeds on the net for real. Listing almost 3200 for a 200 trainer and close to 300 for a 235.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Ripp
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291517 - 06/12/16 01:44 PM

Quote:

So are the speeds on the net for real. Listing almost 3200 for a 200 trainer and close to 300 for a 235.



I have no experience loading the 375H&H with that light of bullets, however if you look at the Nosler reload manual it shows near or above 2800FPS for a 260-270 gr bullet...which would have a serious smack down on any plains game animal..

The 375H&H is an awesome caliber..one gun/caliber to hunt the world if you need to..

Ripp

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291520 - 06/12/16 02:37 PM

Many guys take a .375 H&H out of nostalgia. However for plains game it isn't needed. Unless you want to take one. Plus as Ripp says if hunting DG sometimes it is good to have a rifle handling both.

I have used a .30-06 M98, a .375 H&H Mag M98, a 8x68S M98 and a 9.3x74R DR for plains game hunts or dual plains/DG hunts.

Something around a .30-06 or .300 Mag plus or minus is fine.

Take amoo with you. IF it gets lost you can try to buy replacement ammo if the cartridge is a readily available one.

Airline rules are usually you can take up to 5kg of ammo, packed separately in another bag from the rifle. Ammo should be in original cartrdige boxes or something like an MTM cartridge box. Individual cartridges should be separated from each other, ie by cardboard or plastic sections as in cartridge boxes or MTM boxes.

You will need to declare you are carrying a firearm and ammunition to the airline. They may want to inspect it. Some airlines require prior notice. You will need to declare you are carrying a firearm and ammunition on entering the African country. Some will want declared how many rounds you are carrying and inspect it. Rifle case and luggage with ammo in it needs to be locked when checked in. African hunting countries are used to all of this, but may be bureaucratic.

In Jo'burg the rifle case will be taken to a Police office where you retrieve it after getting paper work filled out. You will need the name of your outfitter and hunting property. Your outfitter can supply needed information for the forms.

If hunting in Namibia, if like me you need to stay overnight in Jo'burg, you may need to retrieve your rifle. I remember using a property name the South African based outfitter supplied to me to make it easier. Presumably some people do transit without having a South African property but not sure how they do it, or the SA Police just accept it.

Sometimes the Jo'bug airport police or porters ask for moeny (ie a bribe) for "beer money". I used to give them a US dollar or two. May not occur still or not, haven't been there recently.

The Afton Guest House used to be a good place to stay near the airport and had a lot of hunter who stay there. Louis, the owner, presuming he is still around, looked after his guests and would have someone meeting guests at the airport. Situated near to Jo'burg airport.

Out of the rifles you list, I would take the .30-06 and load it with good 200 or 180 gr projectiles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #291524 - 06/12/16 03:21 PM

Thanks for all the advice.are there airlines from the states that are more hunter frendly than others not that there's many flying to Africa.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Ripp
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: ducmarc]
      #291574 - 07/12/16 01:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks for all the advice.are there airlines from the states that are more hunter frendly than others not that there's many flying to Africa.



I use Delta whenever I can ..United sucks..and have caused me more problems than all other airlines
combined...

As to gun cases and ammo..all airlines want them to be locked..buy/use TSA approved locks..that way once your guns are checked..when TSA opens the case you won't have to hand them the keys to the locks as there is a side key hole all TSA keys will fit to open..saves you that hassle.

I also always lock my ammo box as well and most require you to do so anyway..

Keep you expensive optics as in bino's in your carry on..I never leave my bino's anywhere other than with me..

For convenience and making the long flight more enjoyable, I picked up a set of Bose noise cancellation headphones..they sound way better than what the airlines give you and cancel a ton of the noise of the plane and people around you..make sleeping really nice as you will be in the plane from Atlanta to Jo-burg for 16 hours..give or take..

The last time I went through Jo-burg I hired a service to get me through with the guns and all..I arrived with about 8 others -handed my paperwork to the representive..was the first one out of there..was about $150 at the time ..well worth it IMHO...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ducmarc
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291581 - 07/12/16 01:42 PM

Thanks again for the direction.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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gryphon
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291582 - 07/12/16 01:44 PM

Carry on binos x 2 especially as replacement here is $3500 AUD
Plus my exy camera/lenses are carried on as well but the downside is if I`m lucky i just have room for a t/brush, change of shirt and underpants with the important stuff where only I can access it when I get the Dubai over nighter.

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #291586 - 07/12/16 01:59 PM

If your rifle has QD mounts consider carrying the scope as well in carry on luggage. Less to loose if checked luggage goes missing.

I did read though one crazy airline reported a person for carrying "firearm parts" or something, ie a scope, in carry on luggage once. Of course optics are permitted.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #291589 - 07/12/16 02:10 PM

Quote:

Carry on binos x 2 especially as replacement here is $3500 AUD
Plus my exy camera/lenses are carried on as well but the downside is if I`m lucky i just have room for a t/brush, change of shirt and underpants with the important stuff where only I can access it when I get the Dubai over nighter.



JG,

On my trip in October my carry on luggage weighed 12 kg, well over the 5 to 7 kg permitted. Due to camera, long lens, microphone, batteries, charger, small laptop, binoculars, and other stuff I have to carry ... luckily and fingers crossed, never weighed it, with some careful check in tactics employed ... one day I will fall afoul though ... but sometimes they allow stuff to be carried separately as long as the bags themselves are less than 5 to 7 kg ... it still all ends up in the overhead lockers though ...

Qantas stuffed us around with checked luggage. New rules, probably due to unionised naggage handlers not wanting to lift stufff. 23 kg allowance. Used to be not bag could be heavier than 30 kg. Not anymore. Now they don't accept anything over 23. Mine was say 27 kg and my wife's 13 kg. So combined not over. Not acceptable! Had to repack the bags at the counter to get my bag to under 23 kg. It weighed 23.1 kg and the bitch was going to make an issue over 100 gms .... before she a light bulk went on in her head and she decided it was OK ...

Annoying when part of the trip is in hot humid Amazonian jungle and light cool clothes and part is Andean mountains where it was supposed to be cold, so heavier warmer clothing also needed. In the end the mountains weren't that cold except at night when it got down to zero. Layering of course in cool places helps.

BTW our tickets allowed uss TWO bags at 23 kg each ... for the main flights but not some internal flights. Bought stuff over there and ended up with three bags around 20 kg each ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rule303
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #291604 - 07/12/16 06:42 PM

I would use my 35Sambar, a 325WSM necked up to 358, very close to a358Norma magnum in performance. 225 or 250 grain Woodleigh Protected Point and 225 grain Hydros. The Woody 358 PP and RN projectiles I have found to be good for at least 200fps above their recommended impact velocity.

The 35 Whelen would certainly do the job, and a 358Norma even better.

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Ripp
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #291618 - 08/12/16 01:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Carry on binos x 2 especially as replacement here is $3500 AUD
Plus my exy camera/lenses are carried on as well but the downside is if I`m lucky i just have room for a t/brush, change of shirt and underpants with the important stuff where only I can access it when I get the Dubai over nighter.



JG,

On my trip in October my carry on luggage weighed 12 kg, well over the 5 to 7 kg permitted. Due to camera, long lens, microphone, batteries, charger, small laptop, binoculars, and other stuff I have to carry ... luckily and fingers crossed, never weighed it, with some careful check in tactics employed ... one day I will fall afoul though ... but sometimes they allow stuff to be carried separately as long as the bags themselves are less than 5 to 7 kg ... it still all ends up in the overhead lockers though ...

Qantas stuffed us around with checked luggage. New rules, probably due to unionised naggage handlers not wanting to lift stufff. 23 kg allowance. Used to be not bag could be heavier than 30 kg. Not anymore. Now they don't accept anything over 23. Mine was say 27 kg and my wife's 13 kg. So combined not over. Not acceptable! Had to repack the bags at the counter to get my bag to under 23 kg. It weighed 23.1 kg and the bitch was going to make an issue over 100 gms .... before she a light bulk went on in her head and she decided it was OK ...

Annoying when part of the trip is in hot humid Amazonian jungle and light cool clothes and part is Andean mountains where it was supposed to be cold, so heavier warmer clothing also needed. In the end the mountains weren't that cold except at night when it got down to zero. Layering of course in cool places helps.

BTW our tickets allowed uss TWO bags at 23 kg each ... for the main flights but not some internal flights. Bought stuff over there and ended up with three bags around 20 kg each ...



Its the same here..50LB max per bag...it also depends on who is helping you..if its some anti you can be in for an issue or two..others don't care and you fly right through...

I have enough FF miles built up now so get a few extra perks...One was when coming back last time from Kyrgyzstan we got into the airlines lounge in Istanbul to pass the time..6 big screen TV's, free food and drinks while in there and big comfy sofa's to relax on as well as places to fire up a lap top to get caught up on work..made the 8 hr layover go by much faster...

The other thing we have done for the past couple years is upgrade to a minimum of "Comfort Plus" seating..nicer seats, more leg room and better service...well worth the money for long flights..

Ripp

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Postman
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291619 - 08/12/16 02:05 AM

I would absolutely recommend using a meet and greet rifle permit service when going through Tembo airport in Joburg. Whether you hunt in SA or are simply transiting through with luggage checked through to another destination country, SA requires either a visitor permit or a transit permit. The $150 it cost me was well worth the money. I was smartly whisked through the airport by a representative of the service both coming and going on my way to/from Windhoek. My rifles made it through without a hitch.

The only slight sense of grief I encountered was on the way back through Zurich where a nasty old woman airport security check person snarled and smacked her fist down on the embroidered crest of my hunting vest while it passes by her on the X-ray conveyor belt. I suppose she didn't dig the fact that I was travelling to kill harmless creatures for fun and entertainment. My luggage was safely checked through Zurich by the airline (Air Canada and Partner airline Swiss Air), so the nazi airport security guard was simply a minor annoyance with no ill effect on me, although my ear to ear smile in response to her antics probably gave her a migraine for weeks afterwards.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Postman]
      #291621 - 08/12/16 02:18 AM

Quote:

although my ear to ear smile in response to her antics probably gave her a migraine for weeks afterwards.



Perfect.

Travelling out of Berlin once, I was paged by security to come and open my checked bag after check-in. An x-ray showed something they wanted to see. Was a video camera battery. One of the female security found my sheath hunting knife, and said "A knife!" holding it up as if she had found something. I turned to her and said "SO WHAT?!" y wife said quickly calm down. Her boss said it wasn't a problem. Bag zipped up and relocked and no more problems.

Stupid bitch. Are we all supposed to bum punching limp wristed liberal tranny panty wearing spineless metro trans 'tards nowadays as they grow them in Europe?

The world is definitely coming to another period of weeding out the gene pool soon.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: best african plains rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #291622 - 08/12/16 02:32 AM

Quote:

Its the same here..50LB max per bag...it also depends on who is helping you..if its some anti you can be in for an issue or two..others don't care and you fly right through...

I have enough FF miles built up now so get a few extra perks...One was when coming back last time from Kyrgyzstan we got into the airlines lounge in Istanbul to pass the time..6 big screen TV's, free food and drinks while in there and big comfy sofa's to relax on as well as places to fire up a lap top to get caught up on work..made the 8 hr layover go by much faster...

The other thing we have done for the past couple years is upgrade to a minimum of "Comfort Plus" seating..nicer seats, more leg room and better service...well worth the money for long flights..

Ripp

Ripp



BTW my cabin bag is really heavy about 3 kgs plus or minus. A very high quality waterproof canvas camera bag by Billingham. Looks very classy and probably improves my image in airports. When sexy young gils admire it you must be doing something right.

Go on and brag about your luxury lounges. NOTHING compared to what I had in Auckland airport during the EIGHT FUCKING HOUR layover there because the useless airline arrived late.

Had a luxury bed to sleep in. Power for the laptop. A smoking lounge to smoke my cigar in ....... the real story. Found hidden corner of the airport where contruction was going on. One of theempty shops there had vinyl counches in it and numerous of us from the same ffffing airline, all lay out on them and slept for hours. Powerpoints on the walls. Dinner in a cafe where the Islander staff were surprisingly friendly and nice. I have always found South Pacific Islander women friendly and pleasant. The smoking lounge was provided for, for smokers, and going through an unpleasant corridor unstairs, exited into a caged area in a building site, with ashtrays provided and no chairs. But the air was fresh, the sky and sun were warm, much better than the sreary toxic airport lounge and mall atmosphere. Going to the smoking area actually meant fresher air!

The airline was LAM. Lam and Latam, crap South American airlines. LAM was always late leaving and always late arriving. Sometimes because staff did not turn up on time and were being paged on the speakers ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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