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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Merkel doubles , action strength
      #29137 - 08/04/05 09:36 PM

I was making inquiries into getting a Merkel SXS double rifle. I was warned off the Merkel ,saying that the action was a cast one ,based on the shotgun action and that after 50-60 shots with bigger cartridges ,it starts to loosen up the action. He said the Heym action was much stronger and was a forged action ,not based on shotgun actions. The gunshop is a dealer for both makes ,so I dont think he was just steering me towards his brand. Has anyone out there got a Merkel double rifle with a lot of shots through it? If so ,how is it. BTW ,he says the Merkel shotguns are very good ,so I will go for one soon.

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: cr500]
      #29146 - 08/04/05 10:41 PM

I was going to buy a Merkel 160 from a dealer in Australia. He emailed me and advised that I purchase a Heym as well do to the fact that he has had nothing but trouble with them shooting off the face! It must be a big problem as no dealer wants to lose a sale of this sort!

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: nitro476]
      #29149 - 08/04/05 10:59 PM

Guys,

That's a bunch of bunk.

I have a Merkel in .500 NE. It has been shot 300-400 times over the past year. It is just as tight as when new. In fact it isn't even fully broken in. The lever still must be shoved to the left to fully close it.

It is massive and strong. I think it will last many thousands of rounds and still be like new.

Read around on the forum, you will see others that agree.

Buy the Heym or the Merkel based on other criteria and preferences. This is a red herring.

Best,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: CptCurl]
      #29158 - 08/04/05 11:30 PM

Total bullshit!!

My Merkel .375 H&H has 500-600 rounds and it's also still tight.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: cr500]
      #29183 - 09/04/05 06:49 AM

It seems undisputed that the Merkel double rifles are built on a 20 gauge shotgun action. However, reports of them coming off face were limited to the .416 rigby and 375 HH versions. I have seen some new Merkels that were excessively tight. One had the greener cross bolt stuck in the out position, and the dealer could not get it to go back together.

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500grains]
      #29184 - 09/04/05 07:02 AM

I'd heard from George Caswell of a couple seizing, i.e.: can't open it - but those were in 470.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: bonanza]
      #29210 - 09/04/05 05:26 PM

HHHMMMMMM. I havent heard anything bad about Merkels on the web. I am wondering if maybe this dealer has other agenders. Is the action on the Merkel realy based on a shotgun action?

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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: cr500]
      #29212 - 09/04/05 05:35 PM

I don't know about SBS doubles but I have had a 9.3x74R drilling that was hard to open after using the shotgun barrels. The 'smith told me the problem was that I'd accidentally dry fired the rifle barrel and the long firing pin had got stuck. Leave a case in the rifle barrel now when clay target shooting and no more problems. This gun has had several hundred very stiff 9.3x74R loads (Uncle Nick's or hotter - Oz shooters will know what I mean - 375 Flanged Mag level) through it with no probs as well as a couple of boxes on 1 7/8oz three inch mag shot shells.

However, with the rifle barrel on the bottom, the action is probably less stressed by the back thrust - I wouldn't be surprised inf the 12ga 3" gave more back thrust.

mike

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: bonanza]
      #29217 - 09/04/05 10:29 PM

I have no idea but this is what one dealer told me. There are mixed reports on this problem.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: nitro476]
      #29259 - 10/04/05 12:45 PM

It sounds like you two talked to the same dealer.

I know little about the Merkel but spent an interesting day touring the Heym Factory awhile ago.

I think because of that I would opt for the Heym. No reason in particular.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: bonanza]
      #29281 - 10/04/05 11:02 PM

Maybe in your case you received a rifle that was fitted correctly. Who is to say that you could have received one built on a Friday or a Monday and the fit was not as it should have been.

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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500grains]
      #37501 - 15/09/05 04:46 AM

Anxious to hear other repsonses, maybe from a Merkel dealer as to correctness. Regarding the strength of Merkel double rifle actions, when first introduced were based on their shotgun actions. There were supposedly problems with guns coming off face and not holding their action tightness. At some point the decision was made by Merkel to strenghten their actions by means I am not sure of, none the less the actions are now stronger and therefore NO problems with guns coming off face. If someone has additional information on this subject I would appreciate it.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: detoews]
      #37504 - 15/09/05 05:09 AM

I have a 375H&H Merkel and a 470 Merkel.
Both have fired plenty (hundreds) of shots and no problems.

This "coming off the face" myth is crap IMHO.

I could take both of my guns off the face in 10 shots if I
overloaded the rounds or continually "doubled" the gun
from pulling both triggers at the same time (by accident of course).

And in viewing this and other forums and seeing how some
people want to make DR's into high velocity tack holers I can
well understand why with all the playing around people do some
end up having problems.

If you stay within normal pressures you won't have a problem.

Re the Shotgun action - so what if it is. The Germans and English
have been building Rifles and Shotguns for years on the same action
so what's new.

In regards to the "seizing" of the action, if someone looked inside and
gave it a strip and clean, you may find it to be hardened oil. This would
also be the case from the gun having been laid on one side for a long time
where an overly high amount of oil has been used which then collects on
one side of the action.

The hardened oil may be because we all shoot in different climates and
if someone used an oil not for cold temps, it could get a lot harder and
possibly stop the actio from working - especially if a new, unused gun.
Seeing how cold it is in the US where some of you shoot and hunt,
I could believe it.

By the way - English guns come off the face and have done for years.

I Challenge anyone here who has PHYSICALLY seen a Merkel
"off the face" to post BUT ALSO to post WHY it came off he face.
ie Who was shooting it with what loads ?

500 Nitro

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BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: cr500]
      #37515 - 15/09/05 08:13 AM

Yeah, those Merkel doubles are pure junk.



Mine is in .470 NE. I have had no problems with it. Though I will have to admit that I have only fired about 100 rounds through it.

As to the actions being tight, in the instructions that came with my rifle, Merkel advised that they are made this way on purpose. They are very tight when new. (Especially with the Greener cross bolt.) Proper lubrication, working the action and shooting it a little soon has things running smoothly. Just a little normal break in.

My two cents....
-Bob F.

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37595 - 16/09/05 10:14 AM

500Nitro

I agree with your post, I believe you are right on the money.


I called GSI today, they are the importers for Merkels. I had a long talk with one of the people that handles the Merkel end of the business. He stated that Merkel SxS rifles are in fact made on their 20 GA shotgun design, but the action is a beefed up design. This also allows one to have a set of 20 GA. barrels with the rifle if so desired. He also stated that the smaller calibers, 30-06, 9.3x74R ect. were made on the 28 GA action. He also stated that all rifles are proofed in German where proffing is very stringent. Now, if I understood everything he told me correctly, there were some problems before GSI was the importer, but these problems have been resolved. Since GSI took over importation of Merkel Rifles, the Merkel factory now retains complete control of manufacturing, another words, the importer has no say as to the quality and pricing of the rifle they want to import. The only control GSI has is the calibers they wish to sell and the type of finish on the stocks of the rifles. GSI can custom order a rifle for a customer. The customer can order a different stock finish, special engraving, inlays, and even a case colored receiver if they prefer that to the satin finish, and I woud suppose special barrel length although we did not discuss that option. I did ask if you could have a case colored receiver withot any engraving and was told no. I could have the case colored receiver, but not without their standard engraving.

I do not wish to be QUOTED on this word for word as I stated above IF I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID CORRECTLY! We were taking on the phone and there was quite a bit of static due to a storm here.


--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: cr500]
      #37637 - 17/09/05 02:09 AM

The Rigby double rifle is also based upon the Merkel. I doubt if there is much to this rumor now. However, I would still get a Searcy, instead.

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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: Peterb]
      #37737 - 18/09/05 06:58 AM

Are you serious, you spend that much money for a Rigby and all you get is a Merkel, not that theres anything wrong with a Merkel!!

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: detoews]
      #37739 - 18/09/05 09:12 AM

In reply to:

Are you serious, you spend that much money for a Rigby and all you get is a Merkel, not that theres anything wrong with a Merkel!!



NO! you spend very little money and you get a rifle as good as a RIGBY, when you buy a Merkel!

This is all a bunch of bunk, and is not founded in FACT! If you will trace every one of these rumors down to the source, you will find one of two things. #1 it will be started by someone wanting to sell you something else they can make more money on, or, # 2 they heard it from a buddy's uncle, who got it from his X-wite's brother-in-law, and in most cases the guy telling it has never even shot a Merkel of any kind.

The reason everyone wants to put the Merkel down as junk, is simply because they can't offer a rifle half as good for anywhere near their price! I've owned just about every brand of double rifle ever built, at one time or another, and today, I find the Merkel line to be a lot more double rifle than the price would indicate. I have a 140.1E 9.3X74R, and a 140.2 Safari 470NE, and I find them to be a bargain where Double rifles are concerned. You must remember Merkel is useing east German craftsmen, and there is almost a depression in Germany today. Be glad you can buy a quality working double rifle at the price you can buy the Merkel for!

If you want to buy a Hyem, then go ahead,there is nothing wrong with a Hyem, I sold one a few years ago, and I wish I still had it, but today, they will pop you in the $16K range, for your trouble, and I'll shoot just as many rounds out of my Merkels as you will through the Hyem, and BOTH WILL STILL BE TIGHT, AND ON FACE, as long as you handle, and care for them properly, and both will be loose, and off face if you don't!

NOW! if you want a double rifle that is worth every penny, and you want it built to fit you, then the B.Searcy PH is the way to go. For $9500 (hurry the price is going up!)you will have a $16K double rifle, but if the Merkels fit you, and you want one, they are also worth every penny paid, and you don't have to worry about the guys who tell you, "THE SKY IS FALLING" crap they spread with not one ounce of fact involved!



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #37740 - 18/09/05 09:26 AM


DUGABOY1


WELL SAID IN SPADES.

Especially
"If you will trace every one of these rumors down to
the source, you will find one of two things. #1 it will be started by someone wanting to sell you something else
they can make more money on, or, # 2 they heard it from a buddy's uncle, who got it from his X-wite's
brother-in-law, and in most cases the guy telling it has never even shot a Merkel of any kind. "

People on forums need to separate Fact, Personal Exprience, Personal Preferences from
Rumour and Fiction.
- we've seen it so many times with the Chapuis, Merkel, Searcy Double Rifle discussions,
bullets and bullet technology and god knows what else.

500 Nitro

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37758 - 18/09/05 04:40 PM

BTW

I forgot to mention that the other day when I talked to GSI about the Merkels, he told me that Merkel was talking about adding a selector switch of some kind in the forend so that you could choose between an ejector or extractors. He seemed fairly certain that this would take place later this year.

I thought I would pass this on for what it is worth!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: MauserRifle]
      #37759 - 18/09/05 04:44 PM


"a selector switch of some kind in the forend so that
you could choose between an ejector or extractors."

If like the old Rigby Sidelock Double Rifles, this would be good.

I wish they'd put ejectors on the 375H&H and 470 doubles
as well.


500 Nitro

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37760 - 18/09/05 05:27 PM

500Nitro

Like I stated in a previous post, there was a lot of static on the phone because of a storm in my area, and I was on my cell phone as our Grand-daughter was on the house phone. But the person I talked to said he was almost sure that this systeem was coming sometime this year. If I understood him correctly, there would be a switch somewhere in or on the forearm so that you could use the rifle as an ejector or extractor. He mentioned another brand of rifle that had a systeem similar to this, but I didn't catch the name.

He did say that the new smaller calibers, I believe 9.3x74R on down had ejectors now. I believe these rifles were O/U models?

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: MauserRifle]
      #37761 - 18/09/05 05:37 PM


MauserRifle,

Rigby (ie Pre WW11 Sidelock Rigby's)
had this selector switch on some of the guns.

Probably sme others but I don't know of them.

500 Nitro

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37762 - 18/09/05 05:48 PM

500Nitro

I was thinking Rigby, but can't honestly say for sure. I think Merkel is making some changes in the new models and are going to have a price increase, just guessing on my part. The only reason I can give for that statement is reading between the lines! I am almost sure also, that if this feature is added to their rifles, there would have to be a price increase.

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Merkel doubles , action strength [Re: MauserRifle]
      #37767 - 18/09/05 06:59 PM

I saw a Heym with that feature some years ago.

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