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Birdhunter50
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Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Steaming rust blued barrels
      #289879 - 05/11/16 10:55 AM

Hi All,
I am trying to find out some information on steaming barrels that are being rust blued. Some place on this forum there was a discussion about this but I can't seem to find it. What I am interested in finding out is the way to set up a steamer to do barrels and small parts and also how long to steam them.
I have obtained an older pressure cooker in good shape that I thought would make a good steam generator plus a single burner hotplate to do the heating. I also have a length of 4 inch PVC plastic pipe with one end capped and a threaded adapter for the top end. Does the tube need to have drain holes in the bottom of it to let out the condensed water?
If you have experience in this method please contact me by P.M. or just answer here. Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can give me on this. Bob

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thirdbite
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Loc: kansas, USA
Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #289881 - 05/11/16 12:20 PM

http://www.rustblue.com/about/instructions/

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: thirdbite]
      #289884 - 05/11/16 05:57 PM



Some guys do a complete rust first, carding between sessions or coats of rusting agent, then boil only once.

Some guys card between sessions, then boil it every session.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289885 - 05/11/16 05:59 PM

The degreasing also works well scrubbing the parts and barrel with a toothbrush or heavy cloth in forceps or hemostats with COMET cleanser on it, then rinsing with clear water.

This is the process I usually use with new bullet moulds, using hot water - the comet, that is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: thirdbite]
      #289903 - 06/11/16 11:58 AM

Thirdbite,
Thanks a lot for your help, this is just what I was looking for. Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289904 - 06/11/16 11:59 AM

Daryl,
Thanks for the good advice, this will help me out a bunch. Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #289926 - 08/11/16 01:05 AM

I would be very interested in seeing pictures of other people's set ups for doing this. If any of you who have actually done this would send a picture or two of how you set up your steamers, it would be very helpful and informative. Thanks,Bob

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #289931 - 08/11/16 05:07 AM

Bob - I'll check with Taylor. He doesn't use steam - but a long stainless trough he had welded up for a tank, with an upsidedown V of the same thin stainless for a lid.

Under the tank, is a long tube with small holes drilled in it with the end of the tube attached to a propane tank. The holes- perhaps 1/8" in diameter emit flame the full length of the tank, as it is long enough to rust-blue barrels up to 48" long.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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thirdbite
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Reged: 30/04/16
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289938 - 08/11/16 08:14 AM

The pictures I've seen used a covered pan or pressure cooker (lid is more secure) with a hole or several smaller holes cut in the top and a PVC toiler flange with 3-5" PVC pipe bolted or screwed over the hole(s). The bbl or bbl action is then hung from the top of the pipe.

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: thirdbite]
      #289957 - 09/11/16 04:18 AM

here's a rig for the boiling method - S.Hawken Barrel being boiled in the last picture.





--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Vladymere
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289969 - 09/11/16 07:03 AM

I have used Pilkington's solution and Brownells solution for rust bluing. I applied the solution at night and hung the parts up, no steaming. Boiled the parts in the morning. Or applied the solution in the morning and boiled the parts in the evening. Carded the parts after boiling and before the next application.

Boiling was done in a stainless steel tank fabricated from the top of an old deli cabinet. I tried brazing the corners of the tank I made but could not get a good seam, probably the wrong brazing material. I ended up using a good, quality epoxy cement to seal the corner seams. The tank is held in an angle iron frame I made and attached to an old propane bbq. The burner is a piece of black iron gas pipe with a bunch of hacksaw cuts for the flame points. Drilled holes i think would have been better.

The water I use is plain tap water, nothing special.

I have had no issues and spectacular results with the above method.
The work is done in my garage in Charlotte, NC.

Vlad

Edited by Vladymere (10/11/16 06:47 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Vladymere]
      #289971 - 09/11/16 08:11 AM

Here is a pistol grip S. Hawken rifle with a rust blued barrel using the above method.





Here is the rifle that was the inspiration for the above rifle.




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289972 - 09/11/16 08:15 AM

Here's the finished rifle barrel that is in the tank above.










BTW - the finish on both Hawken rifles is nothing more nor less than good quality beeswax - seems impervious to the elements.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dogfish858
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #289985 - 09/11/16 10:16 AM

I've tried the steaming before and while I'm confident it's a solid concept, in practice, keeping even heat hot enough is very difficult, plus water would tend to bead and run. With the rusting process, you need good airflow and equal temps on metal and air -- you don't want condensation. For converting, simply steeping the pieces in fresh-boiled water will do your conversion.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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Dogfish858
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Dogfish858]
      #289986 - 09/11/16 10:21 AM

P.s. The inletting of that escutcheon is scary good.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Dogfish858]
      #289988 - 09/11/16 11:13 AM

Quote:

P.s. The inletting of that escutcheon is scary good.



Yeah - both rifles have identical inletting of those barrel wedge escutcheons. Taylor rather excels at those - and other things.

Incidentally, the pistol grip Hawken's wiping stick is Osage Ornage, ie: aka hedgeapple, aka bodark.

He also made an Osage wiping stick for the bottom rifle .62cal., his 'match' rifle for longer range shoots so he could compete with my 14 bore.
He has since changed the sights from copying the original rifle's sights, to wide V, but prefers a front blade to a bead.

Too- the pictures of the bottom rifle were taken before the re-colour casehardening of the steel parts. They came out extremely nice.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #290038 - 10/11/16 01:33 AM

Daryl,
This rifle looks very much like the first black powder rifle that I ever built, it was a .58 caliber Hawken that weighed 13.5 pounds! It was also the the first gun that I rust blued and that was accidental. I had several coats of rust browning on it and had carded carded between coats. I decided to rinse the barrel off in order to stop any rusting before I put a final sealer coat on it. The only water source I had was for hot water in the basement where I was working and was the water heater outlet at the bottom of the water heater.

I rigged up a hose to it and started washing it down, and to my horror, it turned in black. I looked it over and the longer I considered it, the better it looked to me. I decided to keep it black, and that was the most durable finish I ever did on a gun barrel. I hunted with that gun for many years and the barrel finish looked as good as ever when I finally decided to sell it because of the weight. It lasted many years and looked as good as when it was first put on. Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Dogfish858]
      #290039 - 10/11/16 01:49 AM

Dogfish858,
The condensation is one of my prime worries, if I get condensation on the barrels while they are being steamed I am afraid that they will have streaks on them. I was originally going to just hang the barrels vertically inside a four inch PVC pipe with the steam coming in from the bottom, but I got concerned that possibly the bottom side would get more steam than the top end and the finish would look uneven.
I am now wondering if it wouldn't be better to suspend the barrels horizontally and have the steam come in from both ends at the same time and maybe have drip holes in the middle on the bottom side. What do you think? Bob

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #290040 - 10/11/16 03:35 AM

Absolutely, Bob - rust blue is more durable than about any other 'finish' other than some of the modern coatings.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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metal
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #290087 - 10/11/16 05:59 PM

Bob, during the rusting phase you DO NOT want steam. It will condense or drip on the steel and ruin the rusting action.
If the weather in your area is warm and slightly humid then you will get the best results rusting in the open air for about 4-6 hours. If not then you need a "damp box". I use a wooden box with a light bulb at either end with a margarine container of water near each. Experiment with wattage, ventilation and location of water containers i.e. distance from globes, to achieve about 70 Deg F and 70% humidity for optimum results.
Now, after 4-6 Hrs you should have a nice coating of rust that needs to be converted from ferrous oxide (rust) to ferro-ferric oxide (blue)
There are 2 ways to achieve this.
1. Boiling in pure distilled water for 10 or so minutes.
2. Steaming. It converts the oxide in the same way as boiling. There is a good run down on this method in the above link to Rust Blue.
I have not tried steaming yet as I am too set in my ways but I will give it a go one day. The main advantage is you don't need to buy distilled water, just use any old water.
Good luck!

Edited by metal (10/11/16 06:00 PM)

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: metal]
      #290159 - 12/11/16 01:44 AM

Metal,
I only intend to use steam after the browning process is completed, then I will use steam to turn the brown to black. I have always boiled barrels in the past in order to turn them black, but I think the steam is maybe going to be easier and I don't need to worry about water quality. For one thing, I don't have to worry about the water getting into the barrels. With steam all I will have to go is wipe out the bores and clean them.
I have been boiling them after each browning application and then carding them on a carding wheel. I now intend to do several browning passes and then steam them and only do the carding last. This should speed up the process but conserve the blacking quality as it is. Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Vladymere]
      #290160 - 12/11/16 01:46 AM

Vlad,
Thanks for your input, please read my last post to better understand my intentions. Bob

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DarylS
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #290162 - 12/11/16 04:14 AM

Rsy- Bob - didn't know you'd boiled them previously. I must have missed it, it noted earlier in the thread. Too - I have usually been a big over-enthusiastic about showing off my brothers work.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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metal
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #290172 - 12/11/16 07:57 AM

Bob, now I get you. Just steam the hell out of them on the fastest boil you can get and without blowing up your vessel and you should be right. They used this process on large scale in armouries way back.
Regards, Metal.

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Dogfish858
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Re: Steaming rust blued barrels [Re: metal]
      #290217 - 13/11/16 09:37 AM

If you steam, I wouldn't recommend the pipe on pot rig. I found it very tippy and not hot enough, and it condensed badly.

I think steam is best used in a pressurized system to raise the temp and equalize the atmosphere. I would suggest practicing on a Swedish axe head until you get it. The high chrome and nickel content is terrible to work with but doable.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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