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NitroXAdministrator
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Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling
      #286889 - 24/08/16 11:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41AI0sJFwvw

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DarylS
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: NitroX]
      #286914 - 25/08/16 06:03 AM

I watched Cal Pappas video next - liked it much better.

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Claydog
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: DarylS]
      #286921 - 25/08/16 08:18 AM

Nice looking rifle. All the battle field and doing battle talk is a bit much for me.

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aromakr
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Claydog]
      #286929 - 25/08/16 11:50 AM

He makes some valid points, but what pompous ass he is. I wouldn't last an hour as a client, I'd tell him to bug off.
Bob


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Ripp
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: aromakr]
      #286931 - 25/08/16 12:00 PM

Quote:

He makes some valid points, but what pompous ass he is. I wouldn't last an hour as a client, I'd tell him to bug off.
Bob




Agree...x 10

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gwh
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: aromakr]
      #286934 - 25/08/16 12:32 PM

Quote:

He makes some valid points, but what pompous ass he is. I wouldn't last an hour as a client, I'd tell him to bug off.
Bob




+1

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Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910


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Rule303
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: gwh]
      #286940 - 25/08/16 04:05 PM

Well I learnt a few things from MS then. One of which is not to book a hunt with him

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eagle27
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Rule303]
      #286944 - 25/08/16 05:07 PM

I have always found MS's posing/posturing with dead animals and some of the gung ho stuff in the few videos I have watched of him hunting were a bit much for me and like some above have expressed, I too have thought that I would find him hard to take in the field or around the camp fire. Funnily enough I actually enjoyed this video, the battle and battlefield stuff is not a big deal just figures of speech no different to many who use terms of thumping or decking an animal and similar off the cuff sort of descriptive language.

I couldn't fault anything he said in terms of preparing for hunting, safe carry, and waiting until a charging animal was close enough that the odds of missing were greatly reduced. Hell didn't Taylor, Hunter and most of those great professionals of that era practice and promote this.

I thought the ammo carrier and belt set up and the checking he does before venturing out extremely good, I cringe when I watch so many videos on this and other forums of hunters fidgeting and fumbling at their ammo belt trying to get ammo out for a reload and invariably looking down at what they are doing, all the time often trying to run to keep up with the PH.
The number of times I've been out with other hunters who leave their safety on when trying to take a shot or even some who leave the safety on when on the clay target field is incredible.

MS certainly seems to have good rules and good systems in place to limit the occurrence of stupidity.

Would I hunt with him? Would probably consider it now but he would have to carry an empty gun. I want to deck my own animals on the battleground!!!!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: eagle27]
      #286946 - 25/08/16 07:28 PM

Mark on his own is OK but in groups the same posturing gets way too much all the time. Part of the image he purposefully projects.

I agree with the battlefield comments made above. Hunting is not a battlefield. But again the 'image' he uses to sell himself.

The belt comments were good I thought. I would have probably extra stuff on my belt, or in a day pack. But in Africa where the PH has trackers to carry his stuff what he says makes sense. Many clients carry a knife or two, but the trackers and skinners usually do all the knife work anyway. The client knife is usually just for show. But when hunting on one's own, needing to carry everything oneself, extra stuff on the belt and in the backpack is necessary. That said, positioning the bullet belt for easy extraction of cartridges is a good point. Certanly when shooting BGRC and when speed of reloading is essential I always double check the placement of cartridges so my hand knows where exactly to go to get them. Making sure they are easy to extract was a good point too.

I also learned something about the carry method which I had not consciently thought about. I think he made good points on the point of carrying muzzle down and not muzzle up.

The point of a charging buffalo head moving up and down when galloping was a very good one. AND shooting the buffalo as its head rises was excellent. Never considered that and I think it takes a cool mind to purposefully wait for a point when the head is rising. AND even cooler to wait until the buffalo is so close as 10 yards. I know from experience one WILL shoot much earlier than this, and in my case resulted in an empty double rifle. I took evasive action moved behind a tree to reload, in the hope I could skirt around the tree and shoot the buffalo if it was that close after reloading. My first shot when the (water) buffalo was standing missed completely, the second as it came down the hill straight for me hit but the buffalo didn't even flinch. Luckily I think the second shot must have caused the buffalo to consider turning once I moved behnd the small tree as it ran past instead maybe 20 metres away. I fired again into its chest, again no reaction. In the end after a long look for it in the forest and scrub along the side of the river, I found it dead in the river intself. No that far away from the last shot. However I had looked for it for 2kms away and back again right along the river and at the end extremely thick undergrowth, fresh young trees with lots of leaves. Visibility down to one metre. Finding it dead in the water only when walking back to the Landcruiser on dusk was a relief and good that it was down and not wounded somewhere.


The end result of my charging water buffalo

SO I do think if one could keep a cool head, and shoot when it is closer and the shot actually easier might actually be a very good idea. I do think practice for such is very worthwhile. A charging buffalo target, preferably if it jumps around a bit and waiting until it is closer might be worthwhile practicing on.

The Heym .577 NE double rifle Mark is using is an excellent rifle. I handled one of these and shot one at the Heym factory and also at the Schwinefurt International Challenge and liked it a lot. I would buy one fitted to me very quickly if I had the funds. But without anyone's name engraved on it as I am not into that sort of thing ...


Sullivan and the Heym "Sullivan" .577 Nitro Express double rifle


Mark Sullivan and myself holding the Heym .577 NE double rifles at the Heym International Challenge in 2012

BTW I have spoken or corresponded with a number of Mark's clients years ago and they all said they all shot their own beasts. Allen Day was a member on NE but he sadly passed away since. He hunted with Mark a number of times and Mark never shot any of his buffalo. I think the client's buffalo Mark shoots have been wounded and need finishing off. I think he approaches the downed buffalo from upwind so his scent gets to the buffalo, and approaches them from head on, from behind as most PHs and smart hunters would do. This is why he has so many charges by wounded buffalo. Myself I would be worried about wounded buffalo just getting up and running off further and perhaps being lost. So would NOT approach head on and also NOT from upwind.

I have had two charges, the one described above and one pseudo charge by a very angry scrub bull which I had shot from behind with an angling shot from behind. Stupidly, as I should have waited to see if he would turn more before I fired. I also used a 480 gr SP which may not have penetrated the gut well enough to get to the chest. A FMJ would have drilled him straight through. None were in my chambers though. On being hit and turning I shot him again in the chest and shoulder but did not disable him. I used a convenient, this time very large tree to jump behhind to reload. He had run straight down the hill and stopped parallel to me and was angrily looking around for me. I had reloaded one barrel only, peeked around the tree and shot him well in the boiler room. A mist cloud of vaporised blood flew metres into the air from the other wound hole in his shoulder/chest and he dropped instantly.

Now afterwards I thought had I stepped right out into the open, could I have engineered a charge? Takes a lot of guts and a fair measure of stupidity to purposefully do that.

I remember telling Graham Williams and he said "Or the scrub bull may have just run away instead ... "

Smarter to take the safer and smart options I think when it is possible.

As I said above Mark is friendly and not full of himself when one on one or in a small group. He is probably being honest when he said how to interacts in camp, joking around etc. In a group or on camera, the "persona" constantly comes out.

I think the video is quite good instructionally, just ignore the "bravado" and "persona" stuff.



Edited by NitroX (25/08/16 08:19 PM)


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crshelton
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: NitroX]
      #286978 - 26/08/16 02:52 AM

Mark does have a great deal of experience and knowledge to share.
I received his book " Fear No Death" for my birthday this month and IMHO it is well written and illustrated. I have just reached the chapter on shooting a double rifle and hope to finish the book this week. While I am not up to hunting as hard as he, his adventures are interesting.
For what it is worth, I bought an ammo carrier much like his some years ago and wear it much the same. It works for my .405 WCF and .45-90 and I found myself checking each round before going into the field by pushing it up from the bottom - just common sense, I guess.

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eagle27
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: crshelton]
      #287007 - 26/08/16 05:53 PM

John, a very good summary and some insight from your experience how it is not always easy to take a cool head and stand and deliver. A bolt action especially would tend to force one to start and shoot early in a charge and then rely on being able to reload quick enough to get more shots in.

My own limited experience on your water buffalo with my Mauser 404 was probably unusual in that it was more of a do it your self hunt with our 'guide' not being a PH in the sense of the word today but was a professional meat shooter only shooting from his vehicle. He certainly was not of a mind to accompany us into the scrub after the buffalo, my friend only carrying a 7mm Mauser. We were pretty green although had a lot of experience hunting and were pretty good shots. Although having no experience on really big and potentially dangerous game I guess we were a bit gung ho about it all but the 404 was certainly deadly medicine. I couldn't claim to be charged but in the mealy sometimes when shooting a few for a load of meat there were some that came in real close in the scrub probably more from confusion but the 404 just didn't falter, I suppose for that matter neither did I, but everything hit just dropped. I'm a lefty too but I don't feel handicapped when reloading quickly on the fly.

MS is sure passionate about his hunting as am I but I tend to be pretty reserved and not into theatrics in fact after a kill i am usually fairly subdued and like a little quiet space, not into the handshake, backslapping sort of stuff. Having watched his video I couldn't deny I would feel safe with Mark and well backed up, but then many other PH's would similarly provide that too I suppose.

Now surely John you would adorn your barrels with NitroX ?


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375Brno
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: eagle27]
      #287009 - 26/08/16 08:43 PM

What about the bino slung under the arm and not using what he called the bra.
It sort of made sense to me. What do others think?
Rick


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Postman
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: 375Brno]
      #287011 - 26/08/16 09:56 PM

For me a bino bra relieves the near guaranteed neck stress and resulting blinding tension headache of having a strap around my neck. Maybe it would be different if I used a pair of tiny binos. I use a pair of 7x42 Zeiss that are superb for glassing in the bush and at distance. MS is correct though. Having binos on the centre of the chest is an obstruction, and precludes crawling across the dirt on one's belly. I use those binos a great deal and love the handiness of the bra setup, but they are absolutely in the way some of the time. Standing upright, I wasn't even conscious that they existed when I was focused on shooting my buffalo. At the time, I never considered MS's POV that they might have hung me up. Thankfully they didn't, but they could have. The bottom line is simply that I have not even the slightest speck of Mark's experience in the bush chasing dangerous creatures bent on survival. If he says bras are for boobies and not binos, then I would say that is the way it should be. I will be looking for a way to sling my micro binos off to my left side. Maybe there is a sideways bra or maybe one can be fashioned with some creativity and my aging mother's skill on a sewing machine?


Edited by Postman (26/08/16 10:01 PM)


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Postman]
      #287013 - 26/08/16 10:20 PM

I only ever use a harness for my binoculars and I reckon they are the best thing ever, wouldn't be without it. I use a Leupold harness as it has the best attachment clips and Steiner 8x30 Hunting Extreme binoculars. The Steiner's are a compact porro prism binocular with auto focus and I have made up a special wedge to lock the eye distance on the bino's to suit my eye spacing. That way I can hold the bino's up one handed and glass, as I don't have to adjust a focus wheel, and being 8 power they don't move around to much and one can easily stay on target. The harness positions the bino's exactly where you want them and they don't flap around, yet are easy to move up to your eyes. They never get in the way and never interfere with the shot. Maybe they are no good for dangerous game hunting, as I have never done it I can't comment, but for all other types of hunting, especially deer, they are fantastic, especially if you are climbing around, and under and over things. They allow you to hunt without a sling which I never use when stalking, but still glass as required.

Waidmannsheil.

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Postman
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #287014 - 26/08/16 10:45 PM

My bino Bra precluded me from belly crawling for a shot at a zebra. For deer and caribou hunting I couldn't ask for a better setup. I really have mixed emotions over this one.

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DoubleD
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Postman]
      #287019 - 27/08/16 01:49 AM

I have been using the bino-harness for about 15-16 years. I have used it in Africa and in the US. I prefer it. I too crawl around on the around on the ground a bit and have never had an issue with binoculars hanging up or digging in. The binoculars are high on my chest and above my arms when I crawl. The elastic straps keep them there. I prefer to shoot from prone when I can, right or left handed which ever is convenient. The binoculars have not got in the way yet.

I like all of us, I am sure, have did the straight over the neck carry and know what a pain in the back side (and neck) that is. It's for me not even an option.

Some years ago I saw someone promoting the over the shoulder carry as MS promotes. I tried it. It is a good way to carry the binoculars if all you do is stand upright and shoot strong side only. If you have to crawl with that carry method, gravity assures those binoculars will be under you. Trying to crawl with a pair of binoculars under your hip bone can be pain. If you have to move fast and or spend all day walking around the bounce is going be uncomfortable.

If you work into a shooting position that requires you to work from the weak side and use the binoculars, you have switch hands with the rifle or move the bino's. To much movement and awkward motions.

MS method of carry for dangerous game with a double rifle makes perfect sense to me close combat, contact imminent.

My favorite shooting activity is gopher hunting. In Montana this is usually done from the front seat of the truck, shooting out and resting the rifle on the open door window. I wear my binocular hardness while driving all day long.

Edited by DoubleD (27/08/16 01:53 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: 375Brno]
      #287022 - 27/08/16 03:31 AM

Quote:

What about the bino slung under the arm and not using what he called the bra.
It sort of made sense to me. What do others think?
Rick




I have one and used it, but found all the straps, rifle sling etc just get in the way and keep getting snagged. Haven't used it for years. I use the under the arm method.

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John aka NitroX

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eagle27
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: NitroX]
      #287036 - 27/08/16 10:19 AM

Forgot about the bino carry, I carry rubber armoured lightweight compact Optolyths and sling them back under my right arm, as I shoot left handed. Mostly though I carry them in my day pack as usually I sit and scan the countryside. The rifle scope does duty if I need to look at something closer when stalking or walking.

Was why I got a kick out of MS's video, he mirrored my feelings exactly, except for the double which I don't have, I too can't stand a belt full of rubbish, just my small ammo pouch and a folding Gerber in a small pouch for short morning or evening hunting walks. Even if in Africa I would carry such a small knife at the very least to cut my own throat before being eaten or trampled because I f..ked up the shot.


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Ahmed577
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: eagle27]
      #287037 - 27/08/16 10:48 AM

Only binoculars I carry while hunting on foot must be capable of fitting in a shirt pocket. My biggest worry is finding water to drink.

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Rule303
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: 375Brno]
      #287043 - 27/08/16 02:47 PM

Quote:

What about the bino slung under the arm and not using what he called the bra.
It sort of made sense to me. What do others think?
Rick




That is how I hunt when in flattish country. I have a couple of Bino bras and they do have their place. They can help steady your hand and are good if climbing mountains/hills in thick growth. However I find that they can get in the way when crawling. When it is wet I have pockets the binos sit in while on the standard strap so when you use them they don't fog up, bit hard with the bra. Need to unzip the jacket and get wet.


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Rockdoc
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Re: Mark Sulivan on Double Rifle handling [Re: Rule303]
      #287047 - 27/08/16 03:53 PM

Good video.

I carry a little pair of Leica 8x20 in shirt pocket.

I have temporarily "lost" a Garmin GPS 62 with belt clip when I crawled under a tree - the clips undone by my stomach. Noticed it about 150m on, the Dyaks were looking around where we were when I noticed it missing, I walked back to said tree and found it. Better in a pouch like MS or swing off a little carabiner like the Map 64 if noise is not a factor.

I like to carry water and first aid kit. Would be nice to have a gun bearer to carry that stuff, but not the rifle.


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