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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double!
      #286701 - 21/08/16 06:19 PM

What a beast! Anyone seen this? Westley Richards sure have done some odd chamberings in doubles over the years.

I like it, great looking rifle and nothing wrong with the chambering

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/we...16-c-9ce4b8b9b0

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Ash]
      #286708 - 21/08/16 10:24 PM

Wow!!!!!!!! That's a really odd chambering for a double for sure!! A stopping rifle in a rimless cartridge!! Ain't no flies on the power level, but again, an odd choice for a double.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Postman]
      #286716 - 22/08/16 04:16 AM

Certainly not my cup of tea. Beautiful rifle but the chambering sucks!~!
Bob


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: aromakr]
      #286717 - 22/08/16 04:36 AM

I'm a little dubious that .460 Weatherby is the original caliber. It would be interesting to see what W/R has to say about this rifle. Total nonsense about extending the range at which a lethal wound can be administered. With an elephant, you get as close as you can and then get a little closer. I took this one with my .458 WM double rifle and with the longest shot I ever made on an elephant (about 50 yards), and it went down and never got up again.



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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: xausa]
      #286727 - 22/08/16 07:30 AM

Im sure there was a French double 460 which was as ugly as a french car ,truck ,etc

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: xausa]
      #286728 - 22/08/16 07:34 AM

Yes agreed that the extended range is poppy cock and really is glossy marketing bullshit at best, but auction house are paid to move merchandise, so one must take things in stride.

The bottom line is that the rifle is an absolutely beautiful work of art. Had it been me doing the original commissioning of this fine work, I might have not selected a high intensity and rimless cartridge in a double but to each their own.... When one thinks about it, given the holder of such a marvellous piece is likely the client vs the PH, why not? One must realize and appreciate that does put greater dependency onto the PH should those teeny tiny ejector pawls fail in the event that more than two shots are called for and that would worry me.

I am NOT anything more than a novice DG hunter with extremely limited experience that can literally be counted on a single finger, but I do know that my 1st .500 NE shot hit high on the left butt cheek and exited mid height out the base of the neck diagonally on the right side and that buffalo didn't so much as twitch an ear in reaction to the hit. On the following 4th morning, we caught up to the buff face to face at 30 - 35 yards and I put in a total of 3 shots head on in the brisket, blasted a neat little hole just above the left eyeball, and drove two more textbook perfect shots broadside 1/3 up the right front leg before the buff decided to go down. I would probably still be shooting had the trackers not yelled at me "stop stop, he's down, he's down". I backed up my own shots and I believe that this is the way things are meant to be. One can't do that if the double won't break open because it doesn't like high intensity aka high pressure rounds or if one can't eject spent casings properly.

p.s. When my get my mount back from the taxidermist, I'll get him an eye patch ( the buff) and proudly post his picture on the forum.

Edited by Postman (22/08/16 07:39 AM)


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4905
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Postman]
      #286731 - 22/08/16 08:35 AM

460weatherby in a double, well the extra weight should slow the recoil down so less chance of a detached retinal with it.

Sure is a nice looking double but not my cup of tea. I hope the own put it to good use, if he did there should be some good stories.


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Rule303]
      #286735 - 22/08/16 09:38 AM

I like it when someone dares to be different :P

I think WR would have the whole rimless ejector thing pretty down packed for reliability - they built that .425 WR DOUBLE for a maharajah, so one just assume it would be a tiger/leopard/ele gun too? That's a rebated rim, not just rimless.
Of course I have no experience with doubles, and no idea how reliably the aforementioned gun is. I just assume a big name like WR wouldn't let sub-performance leave the shop.

Another thing: if I was totally rich and got a new double rifle made it would be a .700 by H&H, so my taste in doubles is questionable

Edit again: 500Boswell - was that one of the ones made by that home machinist fellow? Also built a .577 Tyrannosaur double?

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Edited by Ash (22/08/16 09:46 AM)


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Ash]
      #286747 - 22/08/16 03:56 PM

Yes Ash i think it was, the barrels were made as one Unit [one solid piece of steel]not soldered together

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: 500Boswell]
      #286748 - 22/08/16 04:03 PM

Most blokes would pale shooting that beast,including me.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39179
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: gryphon]
      #286749 - 22/08/16 04:33 PM

No mention of rifle weight in the 'description'. Unless I missed it in the long winded single paragraph description. A pretty major thing to not list, I doubt it has been missed by mistake.

Sounds like a ridiculous chambering for a double rifle. Probably being sold for a reason, and probably not the first time it has been "pre-owned".

If a persons wants a more powerful DGR one does not go to "more velocity" but to a heavier bullet and larger calibre.
- from a .450 NE or .470 NE or the like to a .500 NE;
- from a .500 NE to a .577 NE;
- from a .577 NE to a .600 NE.

Quote:

Capable of fatally wounding an African elephant at ranges well beyond the traditional engagement distances.




Personally I prefer to kill the elephant and not "fatally wound" any animal ... the statement also somes up the "Weatherby" BS line of thinking and probably what the client thinks when he ordered this crap chambered rifle. Probably has more dollars than sense ...

As XAUSA says, elephant hunting is about getting close. If you are shitting your pants about getting close, stay with the "back of bakkie" hunting instead the person probably usually does ...

The WR rifle is probably quite nice, but seems like it has been ruined with a ridiculous calibre and cartridge chambering ...

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (22/08/16 04:36 PM)


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: NitroX]
      #286758 - 22/08/16 09:01 PM

As said, it's nice when people dare to be different.. Gets a bit boring otherwise
From everything I've read weatherby's tend not to have any trouble demolishing what they are used on. The main issue everyone seems to report is lack of client accuracy. No fault of the cartridge so no point blaming it
Seems a bit harsh to criticise a rifle based entirely on its user with many details unknown.

Large caliber, large case volume (could load pretty quick with low pressure), isn't that what everyone wants? There's many loads for different nitro calibers, tropical loads etc, for reduced pressure. Regulation isn't mentioned either, so we can't say it's regulated for full tilt weatherby loads and pressures .
If someone says "why not do it to a .450 NE then?", well, maybe they wanted a .460 because they simply like the case.

Sorry sorry sorry, just thought we weren't meant to be nit picking.

Cheers.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Ash]
      #286760 - 22/08/16 09:53 PM

Quote:

As said, it's nice when people dare to be different.. Gets a bit boring otherwise
From everything I've read weatherby's tend not to have any trouble demolishing what they are used on. The main issue everyone seems to report is lack of client accuracy. No fault of the cartridge so no point blaming it
Seems a bit harsh to criticise a rifle based entirely on its user with many details unknown.

Large caliber, large case volume (could load pretty quick with low pressure), isn't that what everyone wants? There's many loads for different nitro calibers, tropical loads etc, for reduced pressure. Regulation isn't mentioned either, so we can't say it's regulated for full tilt weatherby loads and pressures .
If someone says "why not do it to a .450 NE then?", well, maybe they wanted a .460 because they simply like the case.

Sorry sorry sorry, just thought we weren't meant to be nit picking.

Cheers.




Not nitpicking the rifle, just the choice of chambering. Which is unsuitable for a double rifle. Stupid choice. Most owners of .460 Wby Mags use it on one hunt, or one target range session, never use it again, and eventually sell it to its new "proud" hopefull owner. The reason .460 Wby Mags bolt actions are usually available in Africa for a cheap price.

WHY ON EARTH HAVE A .460 WBY MAG AND THEN UNDER-LOAD IT TO A SENISBLE EQUIVALENT CARTRIDGE BALLSITICS?

Of course many guys load down their .450 NEs to shoot PIGS, DEER and other SMALLER animals with. But use it with full power EFFECTIVE ballistic loads at DG.

But Ash, if you like it. Buy it. B


As for "nit picking" it has been ffffing obvious it is and was highly and specifically directed only ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (22/08/16 09:55 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Ash]
      #286761 - 22/08/16 09:59 PM

Quote:

I think WR would have the whole rimless ejector thing pretty down packed for reliability - they built that .425 WR DOUBLE for a maharajah, so one just assume it would be a tiger/leopard/ele gun too? That's a rebated rim, not just rimless.
Of course I have no experience with doubles, and no idea how reliably the aforementioned gun is.




BTW big assumptions there. In the end most or many gunmakers make what their client wants. Good ones will advise strongly against some of the requests but in the end, its the clients money being spent on what they want.

Some gunmakers may actually say NO, others will do it because the client demands it.

Lots of doubles have been made for rimless cartridges. Few for stupid over the top pressure big bore cartridges.

But hey, if knowledgeable guys on NE think a .460 Wby Mag is a good chambering say so, and then explain why they think so. Perhaps with examples of similar rifles and chamberings they actually own which are equivalent hot big bores. Would be interesting to hear about.


(Ash, btw I wouldn't think a .416 Rigby is a very good choice for a double rifle, let along a Wby ... )

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (22/08/16 10:25 PM)


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: NitroX]
      #286763 - 22/08/16 10:41 PM

I don't believe there's anything wrong with the .460 Weatherby cartridge itself, and this WR rifle is a work of stunning beauty. I do not personally agree with mating the two together. Whatever floats your boat is cool but I would not buy this rifle unless at a giveaway sell point.

Here is my reasoning why:

I think the .460 Bee is a spectacular cartridge..... But only in a bolt gun with greater magazine capacity than the measly two that the Weatherby rifles offer.

I have had a couple of small caliber doubles in .30-06, one of which I played with extensively with different loads and pressures. As pressures reached near max, the rifles become difficult to break open. I have also experienced this with a 9.3x74R double when first working up loads. Even my final regulating load feels a bit "sticky" on attempting to open the rifle on a hot day to eject the spent cartridges.

The pawls sit on tiny springs of Herculean strength and are beautifully made precision parts. The pawls Never failed on any of my small doubles so equipped but range conditions at the indoor range border on operating room sterile. By contrast, in Namibia where I hunted, EVERYTHING quickly gets covered in fine white dust very quickly. It doesn't take much of an imagination to understand how that fine powder dust could get into tiny precision parts and mess them up no matter how wonderfully they are made.

About the fine dust? Yes, as an allergy sufferer, when I was picked up at Windehoek airport to be shuttled to my hotel before my next flight out to Katima, the very first thing I noticed was that white dust was covering everything on and in the vehicle. It was an SUV of very recent manufacture. After a regional turbo prop fight and a two hour trip the next day from Katima airport to the bush camp near the Kwondo river saw my rifle case and duffle totally covered in fine white powder that to this day discolours both the case and the duffle. The stuff permeates EVERYTHING and oiled fine machinery would surely NOT be immune.

If you are backing up your own shots, would you trust your life to two shots only? Maybe the PH can bail you out, but maybe his angle is bad. Maybe your first two shots were spectacular and you broke down the animal, but maybe like my first shot you blasted an impossible hole from stern to stem, diagonally no less, and miraculously hit nothing vital. Maybe, like me you got lucky and the trackers were able to follow the spoor for more than 3 full days and over 20km as the crow flies. Maybe, when you catch up face on at 30 yards, the buff decides he's going to address his tormentor in a very final way, unlike in my case where he stood fast and let me pump 6 more 570 grain solids into him. ......... But maybe you shoot your two shots, deflect off a twig, or pull the shot, the buff decides to sort you while you fumble around trying to crack open a stuck action or attempt to finger pluck cartridges from the chamber, over the rims of which the ejectors have skipped.

Just sayin'

Edited by Postman (23/08/16 09:17 PM)


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Postman]
      #286789 - 23/08/16 07:49 AM

Postman you make an oft overlooked point about the dust. Here in Aust it is red but still the same. I have known modern bolt actions to become difficult to work because of the dust and an old African hand I speak with mentions dust as a problem with the doubles he had used. So like the army taught me, dusty conditions , no oil where it is not needed and where it is then the barest minimum.

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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
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Re: Good God! A .460 Weatherby Double! [Re: Rule303]
      #286809 - 23/08/16 06:07 PM

In the Australian Outdoors Gun Yearbook 1986 ,Story by Bill Nicholas ,states that when visited Westley Richards he was shown a double in 458 and also a 460 WBY double being made for an American customer, ''the action used was the same one used for the 600 NE'' ,no doubt the same rifle .

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