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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Ruger #1 to 450 NE?
      #14797 - 15/05/04 05:07 AM

I have a 45/70 that I am considering having rechambered to 450 NE, and would like to know the downsides - if any.
I know several members have them and would really appreciate your impressions and also who did the rechambering. Thanks, Dave

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #14800 - 15/05/04 08:26 AM

Advantage-you'll get a cartridge with considerably more case capacity

Disadvantage-only Bertram makes the brass. Over the years, both BeLL and Bertram were the only ones forming hard to get brass for the not so common calibers. Bertram seems to be the major supplier but their quality control sucks. I got some brass for a 475 J No 2 years ago to reload for my buddies dad and found that over half were AFU. Their refund policy also sucks.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: 475Guy]
      #14807 - 15/05/04 10:06 AM

Doesn't BeLL still make the basic case?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by mickey (15/05/04 10:07 AM)

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: mickey]
      #14811 - 15/05/04 10:41 AM

If they still do, I don't see it listed. It may be a special order item. If they still were making NE brass, you would probably have slightly better quality stuff and would be easier to settle the problem of refunds or exchanges.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: 475Guy]
      #14815 - 15/05/04 11:08 AM

Buffalo Arms has the Bell brass $45/20 or $210/100.
This is for either the thin or thick rim case.
Bertram is $62/20 for the thin rim- ???

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Raff
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Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #14816 - 15/05/04 11:59 AM

D3,
I don't know about the .45-70 to .450NE, but I sent my
No.1 to Bowen Classic Arms a few months ago to be
rechambered/breeched from .458 mag to .450NE. The price
is pretty reasonable and they have a good reputation for
quality work. I guess I'll find out pretty soon. I was
shooting a DR in .450NE and ended up with a lot of
Bertram brass. Lots of problems with case splits. I ended
up annealing the cases every 3rd shot and then they seem
to hold up fairly well. Huntington Die in Oroville, CA.
sells their private lable HDS cases in a .450 Basic and
these seem to work much better. They also had some of
the older BELL .450 Basic cases. Both were less cost than
the Bertrams and both are reloadable a bunch of times.
I think Bowens web is www.bowenclassicarms.com.
Good luck on your project.
Glen

--------------------
.

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: Raff]
      #14821 - 15/05/04 01:17 PM

Which .450 NE are you talking about?

Kynoch is offering loaded ammo for 4 different 450's. Kynoch

I haven't bought any of thoses calibers but the others caliber brass I have bought recently is top quality.

I just got some 450 Musket number 2 Bertram 2nds and other than some oil dents or bent mouths they are a world of improvement over what Bertram sold 3 or 4 years ago as 1st class.



--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Tom_Bigbore
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Reged: 16/01/04
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Loc: Germany
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #15157 - 24/05/04 11:37 PM

As you are talking about rechabering, I assume you donīt want to rebarrel. I have not found data for the 450 Nr.2 nor 500/450 NE
The data of the 45-70 and 450 NE 3 1/4" is
*)..................rifling 1.........rifling 2.........twist
45-70...........11,43 mm......11,58 mm.....508 mm
450 NE.........11,43 mm......11,61 mm.....381 mm
500/465 NE..11,65 mm......11,87 mm.....711 mm

*) Iīm not sure of the english wording of this data, believe one is "field"...

You see, your bore is a bit small and twist is totally different. As you probably have to rebore, I would choose the smallest step possible to keep the weight and barrel stiffness (I would insert lead or mercury recoil stuff in the butt stock anyway; itīs a lite gun), and that would be the 500/465 NE.
Cartridge price is only slightly over the 470 NE.

btw. I have a rebarreled #1 in 577 NE

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #17214 - 26/07/04 01:46 PM

Hey guys,
Bell alias Mast is now out of business and sold out to a fellow named Jamison and they will only be doing Military type contract work from now on or so I have been told..When the present stock is out and its being discounted as we speak, thats it...things are going to get might rough in the double rifle department...glad I'm now shooting a 470.

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: atkinson6]
      #17371 - 29/07/04 06:46 AM

Yep, I heard about BeLL getting out of the brass business so I ordered four boxes (20 count) of BeLL .470 NE brass from MidwayUSA about two weeks ago. (I've since received it.) They had it in stock for $31.99 per box. I just checked Midway's site today and they now show "Out of Stock, No Backorder" for the BeLL 470 brass.

-Bob F.

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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: BFaucett]
      #17393 - 29/07/04 02:19 PM

Rechambering my #1 was only possible because Bell was making .450 NE brass with the "thick" .060 rim - same as 45/70.
Now that the brass is no longer available, this is not practical so I have purchased an octagon blank and will re-barrel as soon as the tooling is finished on a new lathe.
I still plan on the .450 NE 3 1/4, have always wanted one and have located the reamer so it's just a matter of time.
Guess I better start buying some brass. Dave

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congomike
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Reged: 20/04/03
Posts: 14
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #17720 - 09/08/04 07:47 AM

If I may make a suggestion...rechamber to 45-120 (45 3 1/4") and that will have the 45-70 rim size, use 45-70 shell holder, use 45-70 dies to "neck size" and still be able to be loaded to about .450 ballistics. Also brass is readily available from Huntingtons and a few others as the .45 Basic. Just buy a trim die and run the cases through them and you are ready to shoot. I did this several years ago with a Ruger No. 1 in 45-70 and the only problem was that at around 6 1/2 pounds and full loads it damn near brought tears to my eyes each time I touched it off....

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AdamTayler
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Reged: 22/03/04
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: congomike]
      #18338 - 23/08/04 04:18 AM

How do you find your rifle with that 22" barrel now that it is a 45-120? Would 26" or more be better? I believe Shiloh Sharps rifles come with a 30" barrel.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #19306 - 19/09/04 09:38 AM

Save yourself a lot of grief and money, and rechamber that gun to a 458 Lott and then you can load it to the same balistics of a 450 or about any of the old calibers or at 2350 FPS with a 500 gr. bullet and have a sho nuff real gun...and you can buy brass and bullets and factory loaded ammo...Why would you do otherwise?

I really wanted a 450-400 or 404 in a NO. 1 but I found a 416 Rem which does the same thing plus a lot more, so I got it and that was a decision I have not regretted....

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antitank
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Reged: 16/11/04
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: DoubleD]
      #20941 - 16/11/04 08:37 PM

Just as a matter of interest - Bertram Brass make most if not all the brass for Kynoch!

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Siskiyous6
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Reged: 21/11/04
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Loc: Del Norte COunty, CA
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #21131 - 22/11/04 06:13 PM

What is it yhat you don't like about it in 45-70? The #1 is strong enough for some pretty stout loads.

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Pass it on!

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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
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Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: Siskiyous6]
      #21204 - 23/11/04 02:25 PM

Nothing at all wrong with the 45/70 in my #1, it's just that I have always wanted a single shot in 450NE and this is the only way I can afford one.
I have a .500BPE double but as a single shot collector, have always wanted one in one of the large British rounds and the .450 has always appealed to me as being the first smokeless sporting cartridge.
Not a matter of need as I will never hunt anything dangerous just a matter of about 50 years wanting one.
Have shot a #1 in .416 Rigby and found it very accurate and easier to shoot than my 45/70 due to the heaver barrel.
I have a 26" octagon barrel we are going to use and will take pictures when it is finished and range tested.
Dave

Edited by davem3 (23/11/04 02:33 PM)

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AfricanHunter
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Reged: 01/02/04
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Loc: Nebraska, USA
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: atkinson6]
      #21691 - 05/12/04 01:36 AM

Ray, at your age I thought you would remember nostalgia!!!!!!

Some of us just don't want the "new and improved" "new kid on the block", even when it makes more sense and may be better.

Have a nice day ridin' and ropin'!

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BigRx
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Reged: 26/12/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Idaho
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
      #23143 - 02/01/05 07:43 AM

Tom Bigbore has made a good point here davem3.

Ruger's barrels have .458" to .4585" groove diameters in both the .45-70 and the .458 Win Mag of the ones I've measured. BUT, the .45-70 have a twist rate of 1 turn in 20" vs. the .458 being 1 turn in 14"

Tom's metric chart shows the groove diameter at .457" (11.61mm) and the twist at 1 turn in 15" (381mm) for the .450 NE.

While the 1 in 20" twist may keep 500 grains point on on paper, both the .458 Win Mag and the .450 NE have the quicker twist for a very important reason. To keep long solids point on penetrating dangerous game.

BigRx

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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: BigRx]
      #23279 - 03/01/05 05:00 PM

I have a 26" tapered octagon blank with a 14" twist that will be used.
A friend is going to thread and chamber it for me and I have been waiting until he caught up on two 1000 yd. match rifles he was building for customers before I took up any of his time. Dave

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DaveJames
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #23470 - 04/01/05 08:25 PM

dave,I'm late to the thread but i have one of the 45-70's converted to 450 3 1/4" Nitro, fun gun and does well with the heavy lead 525's and 550's but thats at the old black powder loadings, full tilt booige loads/nitro are not for the recoil shy, the gun is just to damn lite.

--------------------
"I am always willing to learn,but not always willing to be taught."
Sir Winston Churchill

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davem3
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Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: DaveJames]
      #23522 - 05/01/05 03:40 PM

Dave - Since this whole idea came up I have had a chance to shoot a #1 in .416 Rigby and my 45/70 back to back.
Federal factory ammo in the .416 and 500 gr.JSP/"Ruger #1 only" reloads in my 45/70.
The .416 was much easier to shoot - the extra weight in the barrel greatly reduced the muzzle jump and made the gun much faster to reload. Felt recoil seemed about the same to me although the .416 had about 6 ft. lbs. more on paper.
This plus the twist problem made rebarreling a better choice plus it would allow me to use the thin rim brass.

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akjeff
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Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: davem3]
      #24660 - 20/01/05 02:56 PM

I just sent my No.1T .458 WM to SSK/JD Jones for a re-chamber to .450 #2. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Hamilton Bowen came to mind initially, but he has ceased working on rifles. Have dies & brass in hand, and ready to go. I may stick some weight in the butt. I like a rifle to be muzzle heavy, but the No.1T is a little to muzzle heavy for my tastes.

Jeff

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akjeff
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Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: akjeff]
      #28260 - 24/03/05 04:01 PM

Got the rifle back from SSK. They did a great job. Functions, and shoots great! Only had time to fire it 10 times. I now know to use a case filler. I fired 5 shots without it ( load is Hornady 500gr/105gr H4831SC/F215M ), and I could hear the hammer/firing pin strike on 2 of them before the ka-boom. At fifty yards, the 5-shot group was a tad over 2". The five rounds I fired that were topped off with a scoop of Puff-Lon, all went bang when they should have, and you could easily cover them all with a 50 cent piece. Three of them were in one elongated hole. The sights are NECG's big white bead, and rear peep.

Also, I put a 13oz Breako tube in the butt, which balances the rifle at the reciever. It was too muzzle heavy for me.

Jeff

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magnum308
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Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Ruger #1 to 450 NE? [Re: antitank]
      #28499 - 29/03/05 09:31 AM

Antitank,

Do you have a contact for Bertram Brass? Like a website or email address?

Cheers & God bless,
Magnum308

--------------------
____________________________________________
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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